gun ban

[dugger]

Wednesday, December 7, 2005 Posted at 10:26 PM EST

Canadian Press

Ottawa — Prime Minister Paul Martin will venture into a violence-plagued area of Toronto on Thursday to announce a sweeping ban on handguns.

Mr. Martin was scheduled to visit Toronto's troubled Jane-Finch area to make a "safer communities announcement." Liberal sources have confirmed the announcement includes a ban on handguns.

No other details were immediately available.

Handguns are already severely restricted in Canada and a handgun registry has been in force for more than 60 years.

But a rash of recent gun deaths in Toronto has prompted Martin to promise to crack down even more. Gunfire was responsible for 50 of the 74 murders so far this year in the city.

The rash of shootings prompted city police to launch a gun amnesty program in November, during which they collected 261 weapons and more than 1,500 rounds of ammunition.

A ban on handguns is likely to be popular in other large urban centres as well, like Montreal and Vancouver, where residents have been disturbed by recent firearms violence.

Windsor MP Joe Comartin, the New Democratic Party's justice critic, said the announcement sounds like "smoke and mirrors."

"Basically, all handguns in Canada are illegal now," said Mr. Comartin. "The only people who get permits are those who are using them for recreational purposes or those who need it for their own personal safety and there's not a lot of those that are granted."

He said the announcement sounds like "a political ploy during an election to garner some headlines and make it look like you're actually doing something when, in fact, what you're proposing is pretty meaningless."

Given the number of stolen guns used in crime, Mr. Comartin said there had been some discussion earlier this year at the all-party Commons justice committee about tightening regulations governing safe storage and use of handguns. But that is something that falls under provincial jurisdiction.

Mr. Comartin said the one thing the federal government could do would be to stop the flow of illegal firearms into Canada from the United States.

It remains to be seen how the ban will go over in rural areas, where the issue is more about rifles. Many Prairie rifle owners have never forgiven the Liberals for creating a registry for long guns.

Created 10 years ago, the registry was supposed to cost a mere $2-million. Instead, its cost has ballooned to more than $1-billion.

The Conservatives, who declined comment on the expected handgun ban Wednesday, have called the program a boondoggle and Auditor General Sheila Fraser has sharply criticized the waste and mismanagment that have pervaded the registry.

Gun owners warned at the time that the registry was the first step toward confiscation of their guns. Mr. Martin's announcement may be seen as confirmation of their worst fears.

The Liberals, who desperately need to regain support in Quebec and hang on to their urban base in Ontario, appear to be willing to sacrifice their meagre support in the Prairies in a bid to bolster their central Canadian base.

But the gambit may yet cost Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan her Edmonton seat and make it more difficult for Finance Minister Ralph Goodale to hang on to his somewhat safer Regina riding.

Currently, handguns in Canada are classified as either restricted or prohibited weapons.

Canadians can receive a licence to own a restricted weapon if they can prove it's part of a gun collection or used for target practice or target-shooting competitions. They can also be granted licences to use the firearm under "limited circumstances," such as in the role of a police officer.

Initial reaction to the handgun ban was predictably negative from the firearms lobby.

"It's going to accomplish nothing," said Wayne Fields of LaSalle, Ont., president of the Law-Abiding Registered Firearms Association. "There's already all types of legislation and illegal use of handguns is out of control."

Mr. Fields said the Liberals have long been focusing their energy in the wrong direction.

"They have to concentrate on the illegal drugs and the criminals that are using the firearms — get them off the street. They're not going to get rid of guns — it's impossible."

Mr. Fields said while he doesn't think the announcement will do Mr. Martin any good on the national stage, he admitted it might get him some votes in Ontario, and particularly in Toronto.

"He's trying to protect his strength here in Ontario against the Conservatives, in particular in Toronto where they're strong. The election is going to be won or lost in Ontario.

"Why the Conservatives haven't made it an (election) issue is beyond me."

He said any legislation to either register or ban guns is "lame-duck legislation because half the gun owners aren't licensed and two-thirds of the guns aren't registered."

Kin Chung, who owns a gun shop in Vancouver, said he opposes any kind of sweeping ban on handguns because legitimate dealers like him would lose up to 80 per cent of their business.

"I'm absolutely not happy," he said.

Mr. Chung said a ban would also not be welcome by law-abiding citizens who register their guns as required by law and use them for target shooting, for example.

"Those who buy a gun legitimately, got a licence, go through a safety course, they are not about to commit a crime."

Most guns used by gangs aren't registered because they're often smuggled into Canada to commit violence, Mr. Chung said. "They should plug that hole."

He said Ottawa needs to address other issues, such as drugs and gang violence that often lead to shootings.

Don't you feel so much safer now????

[Kiraly]

Remember....

...registration doesn't lead to confiscation....

...yeah, right.

I cannot see this as a winner for the Martinistas. I eagerly await Harper's response to this....

...I guess once it is offically announced by Martin.

[cybercoma]

The article is bang on. Someone who goes through the hoops of getting a handgun license is not going to be using it to commit an offense. I would imagine most guns used in murders are neither registered, nor legally acquired (read: stolen, smuggled, etc.).

[FTA Lawyer]

The article is bang on.  Someone who goes through the hoops of getting a handgun license is not going to be using it to commit an offense.  I would imagine most guns used in murders are neither registered, nor legally acquired (read: stolen, smuggled, etc.).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes, the intelligence and logic Martin demonstrates with this move is astounding...

People who are breaking about 14 different laws by using a handgun to commit murders will be stopped with ease...by simply making it MORE illegal for them to do such acts.

This is the same fundamental flaw of the long-gun registry...law abiding gun owners are not the ones committing the crimes...and those who are have already mastered the challenge of getting a hold of a gun illegally.

The saddest part is that many big-city voters will blindly fall for this idiocy.

I hate to be harsh, but James Rosko demonstrated with horrific clarity that you cannot prevent gun tragedy with firearms bans (i.e. Rosko was banned from possessing any firearm by provisions of the Criminal Code at the time he slaughtered four Mounties with a firearm...the ban didn't work so well did it?)

It's political exploitation of the grief of a community at its finest (worst) for Martin to make this kind of announcement which any reasonable person can see has no hope at all of helping the problem.

I guess we can hope that the leak of this announcement was a trial balloon and he won't actually go through with it once he gets some feedback...wishful thinking?

FTA

[Kula]

Martin is an idiot. I can see the criminals lining up to hand in their glocks already. Just like they lined up to register their handguns.

This guys logic is insufferable!

Kula

[Argus]

It's a placebo for the plebes, just like the long gun registry. Let's hope this one won't cost us as much as the other one.

It will certainly do no good, as almost all hand guns used by criminals are smuggled across the border from the US anyway. And the last I heard about action on the border was the RCMP withdrawing its people from the border patrol areas along the Ontario/Quebec/ US borders because of a lack of money.

You can go into any bar in Toronto and buy an illegal handgun. How about cracking down on that? Noooo, too complicated. Let's go after the legitimate owners instead. It'll sound nicely self righteous and stern on the TV.

[Shakeyhands]

Even I will admit this is stupid. I hope the strategist that came up with this ones trips on an untied shoelace.

He may as well ask Harper for his comments on the original Gun registry issue via the media... dumb.. plain dumb.

[CoachCartman]

So........are my handguns going to be confiscated or will I be paid for them? Buying them legally is not cheap. There are some collectors who have hundreds, where does that leave them? How about the gunshop owners? Gun range owners?

[Shakeyhands]

Actually I just listened to the whole announcment, it doesn't sound that bad

[dugger]

To a criminal it doesn't really matter if the gun he is going to use in any crime is legal..c'mon, now....banning hand guns sounds good but to the criminal it's just another "law" to break. These punks want a gun??? They'll get one.

It would be better if, along with this"banning hand guns" , when any punk is caught with a hand gun they automatically get 10 years - no parole..no plea bargaining - in jail...maximum security. Also, if they are not Canadian citizens, deport them back to wherever they came from after the sentence. With our Immigration policy, if they are deported before jail time, they will be back!

Hell, in China, if anyone commits a crime with any type of weapon they are executed, by firing squad, and their families get the bill for the bullets. I kinda like that......

[dugger]

To a criminal it doesn't really matter if the gun he is going to use in any crime is legal..c'mon, now....banning hand guns sounds good but to the criminal it's just another "law" to break. These punks want a gun???  They'll get one.

It would be better if, along with this"banning hand guns" , when any punk is caught with a hand gun they automatically get 10 years - no parole..no plea bargaining - in jail...maximum security. Also, if they are not Canadian citizens, deport them back to wherever they came from after the sentence. With our Immigration policy, if they are deported before jail time, they will be back!

Hell, in China, if anyone commits a crime with any type of weapon they are executed, by firing squad, and their families get the bill for the bullets. I kinda like that......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dugger]

I meant to say any punk who is caught with a gun with a criminal record or caught during the committing of a crime gets 10 years ...etc...not the law abiding citizens who are gun collectors......just in case someone misunderstood what I was saying...

By the way, how is this going to play with gun collectors?

[dugger]

Sorry for the double post...I'm new....

[Leafless]

The problem is existing legislation concerning hand gun infractions is NOT BEING ENFORCED.

It's supposed to be an automatic five years in prison for most hand gun offences.

Why do judges not hand out the prescribed penality.

What good will more laws do if you DO NOT enforce them.

The Liberal are 'off the deep end' on this issue but then again what Liberal believes in incarceration or corporal punishment.

[PocketRocket]

I strongly doubt that we'll see any major change here.

There may be a few "cosmetic" changes to the laws as they currently stand, change the wording a bit, and they'll trumpet it as being a major step forward.

Consider that assault rifles are basically banned, and people still have them in their collections, registered, and legal.

Hand guns will be the same. Those who already have 'em will keep 'em.

It may be a bit more difficult to acquite a registration for a new on, though.

Kinda like the registry.

It made a bunch of Lib-types happy, and didn't really change anything for legal gun owners as, technically, we have been required to register firearms for well over 20 years now.

[sharkman]

Since this new handgun law is only meant to get votes in southern Ontario, expect a new round of American-bashing. The evil empire with its easy access to guns yadda yadda yadda. Funny how they seem to slip through OUR border to get back into Canada. Martin, what a schmuck.

[dugger]

American bashing is something that the Liberals do, oh so well. Martin is going to be in the Jane-Finch area, apparently, to make the announcement about the gun ban.

Well, he is certainly picking the right area but it just won't work. And, as was said, this is a vote getting ploy for Southern Ontario....and you know what....it will work. Ontario voters, many of them now immigrants, are getting so much from the government that they are afraid to change. Don't wanna lose those benefits. Jane-Finch is a prime example. :angry:

[sharkman]

Meanwhile, kids in Toronto will keep getting killed in record numbers until the judges start handing out tough sentences for violent crime. Illegal handguns aren't going to suddenly disappear.

[Argus]

The problem is existing legislation concerning hand gun infractions is NOT BEING ENFORCED.

It's supposed to be an automatic five years in prison for most hand gun offences.

Why do judges not hand out the prescribed penality.

You can look at any law dealing with violence in Canada which allows judges leeway in sentencing, and you'll find that 95% of all sentences are within the lowest third of the sentencing frame. Judges do not like handing out severe sentences, regardless of how severe, how violent, or how cruel the crime commited was. The only way we're ever going to get a handle on violent crime is to take the sentencing decisions away from judges and bring in mandatory escallating minimums.

[scribblet]

I thought hand guns were allready banned, is he actually saying he will come into our homes and confiscate all legal hand guns ? I'd also like to know where he gets his statistics from as to the statement that 50% of gun crimes are committed with stolen legal guns. I don't own a hand gun never will, but this smacks of facism and a step towards confiscating long guns owned by hunters et al.

The good part of course is raising the minimum mandatory sentencing for gun crimes; a conservative position which the Liberals have always ridiculed the conservatives for having. It seems now they all of a sudden buy into this. And of course we know how inept they Liberals have been at handling the gun registry, so it doesn't bode well for any new gun control legislation.

I did think it was inappropriate for Mayor David Miller to be there with PM, an obvious endorsement of the liberals. Would he have been there if Harper had been making the same announcement?

[Argus]

The good part of course is raising the minimum mandatory sentencing for gun crimes; a conservative position which the Liberals have always ridiculed the conservatives for having.

Useless without other changes in the system. Those "mandatory minimum" sentences are based on criminals actually being charged with gun crimes, and they rarely are. That is the first thing defence demands when offering a plea. Drop the gun crime charge and we'll plead to armed robbery, or whatever, so long as the sentence isn't too severe.

[Kula]

Go here Proud to be Canadian and watch the video posted under the headline 'Liberal-left big brother gov't to take all your guns away from you'. A young voter tears this legislation apart and critcizes the PM. All on CTV (Liberal Broadcasting Network Lite).

Kula

[scribblet]

Go here Proud to be Canadian and watch the video posted under the headline 'Liberal-left big brother gov't to take all your guns away from you'. A young voter tears this legislation apart and critcizes the PM. All on CTV (Liberal Broadcasting Network Lite).

Kula

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good link thanks, I think these tactics are going to scare the beejeezus out of most thinking Canadians. Except the criminals of course.

[scribblet]

Go here Proud to be Canadian and watch the video posted under the headline 'Liberal-left big brother gov't to take all your guns away from you'. A young voter tears this legislation apart and critcizes the PM. All on CTV (Liberal Broadcasting Network Lite).

Kula

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good link thanks, I think these tactics are going to scare the beejeezus out of most thinking Canadians. Except the criminals of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is cute:

http://www.robertphillips.ca/index.php?blo...1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Paul Martin Bans the Conservative Party!

December 8th, 2005

While Prime Minister Paul Martin was busy banning just about everything this morning, including hand guns, murder, and winter, he took time out of his busy schedule to announce a ban on the Conservative Party of Canada.

"This is part of an overall National Unity Plan, where any dissenting voices will immediately be banned from existence. The Conservative Party Ban is just the first step in the Liberal Party's cleanup of Canadian politics; soon there will be no parties at all, and the Little Red Book will become required reading for our unity!"

Martin went further to add that "The only reason Canadians have lost faith in their government is because of the Conservative Party. Without them, they would have never found out about Adscam, the Gun Registry, HRDC, or any of the other scandals and boondoggles of the last 13 years. With the Conservative Party banned, Canadians will once again have full confidence in their Liberal Government!"

When asked how his plan would impact democracy, and the freedom of political association, Martin added "This brings me to my fifth policy announcement today; a ban on Democracy!"

[cybercoma]

Since this new handgun law is only meant to get votes in southern Ontario, expect a new round of American-bashing.  The evil empire with its easy access to guns yadda yadda yadda.  Funny how they seem to slip through OUR border to get back into Canada.  Martin, what a schmuck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only reason they slip through the border is that our border guards don't carry firearms and do not stop anyone who is considered to be armed and dangerous. Instead, they let them through the border and call the police to handle it.

I'm not joking, I have close friends who work for both the Windsor Police and Customs.