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Are You Woke?


Are You Woke?   

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3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

So, @Rebound was right then.  There are lots of definitions.  I've seen two posters with two definitions.   I'm sure there are more.  Useless question in the OP.

I don't think that's really fair.  You can take most words and ask people to define it on the spot and get the same effect. As people what 'obese' means specifically and you'll either get very vague and general answers like 'fat' or you'll get a number of technical answers like x percent of body weight is fat or you'll get something in between like VERY fat instead of just overweight or fat.  And we've had that word for over a century now :)

People use words with a general idea of their meaning or at least how THEY mean it and that's pretty much true of every word.

Now you're right - the op should have included a definition that could be generally accepted in the OP. His failure to do so makes the thread very difficult.

But that doesn't mean there isn't an accepted definition.

It is generally agreed by most people that a practical definition of the word is the one presented by the dictionary, and most would agree that it is NOW becoming used as a pejorative for any ideology or policy that is "excessively" or impractically left wing exclusively. 

And as a reasonable person - you can fix the problem of the OP's mistake not including a definition by simply starting your post with YOUR definition so that there's a frame of reference for your reply.

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11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

So, @Rebound was right then.  There are lots of definitions.  I've seen two posters with two definitions.   I'm sure there are more.  Useless question in the OP.

Wokeness has core beliefs that start with "white privilege". ALL supporters of wokeness agree that "white privilege" is real, and that it's a major problem within societies across the globe. 

Wokeness supporters have more in common; they all support/embrace: LGBT, Illegal Immigration, Abortion rights, Climate Change/Crisis, mask mandates, and so on..

So you see, there may be slight differences in some parts of what being woke is, but the core aspects of it are shared by all leftists. 

Edited by Deluge
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4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I don't think that's really fair.  You can take most words and ask people to define it on the spot and get the same effect. As people what 'obese' means specifically and you'll either get very vague and general answers like 'fat' or you'll get a number of technical answers like x percent of body weight is fat or you'll get something in between like VERY fat instead of just overweight or fat.  And we've had that word for over a century now :)

People use words with a general idea of their meaning or at least how THEY mean it and that's pretty much true of every word.

Now you're right - the op should have included a definition that could be generally accepted in the OP. His failure to do so makes the thread very difficult.

But that doesn't mean there isn't an accepted definition.

It is generally agreed by most people that a practical definition of the word is the one presented by the dictionary, and most would agree that it is NOW becoming used as a pejorative for any ideology or policy that is "excessively" or impractically left wing exclusively. 

And as a reasonable person - you can fix the problem of the OP's mistake not including a definition by simply starting your post with YOUR definition so that there's a frame of reference for your reply.

I don't have a definition.  If I agree with something that someone else says is woke, then all well and good.  If I disagree with something that someone else says is woke, it's not up to me to say that's not woke.  The question "are you woke" is meaningless. 

Given this:

It is generally agreed by most people that a practical definition of the word is the one presented by the dictionary, and most would agree that it is NOW becoming used as a pejorative for any ideology or policy that is "excessively" or impractically left wing exclusively. 

How can one answer the question?  Yes, I'm woke, but just the really good, acceptable bits?  I daresay @Deluge won't be happy with that.

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22 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Pros:

  1. Promotes social justice: "Woke" culture seeks to raise awareness of and address social injustices, including racism, sexism, and discrimination against marginalized groups.
  2. Encourages diversity and inclusivity: By valuing and promoting diversity, "woke" culture fosters a more inclusive society where all individuals feel welcome and respected.
  3. Spurs progress and change: By challenging the status quo, "woke" culture encourages progress and change towards a more just and equitable society.

Cons:

  1. Can be divisive: "Woke" culture can create an us vs. them mentality, leading to division and polarization among groups with differing opinions.
  2. Can stifle free speech: "woke" culture may lead to censorship and suppression of free speech, particularly when controversial topics are involved.
  3. Can lead to cancel culture: "Woke" culture can lead to "cancel culture," where individuals or groups who express opinions deemed offensive or problematic are ostracized or punished.

    Source: Google ? + a Grammar App, you need perfect English in such a debate.

"Social Justice" is just a code name for NAZISM. In the logical world there is no such thing as "social justice." There is just JUSTICE. Social Justice is about taking money from those who earn it and giving it to those who do not. That is not justice. It's called THEFT.

Anyone who thinks diversity does not exist today and has not existed for the entire history of mankind is an @!diot. Suggesting there are any TWO humans who are even CLOSE to the same is the action of someone with SERIOUS cognition issues, as well as racial ones. Suggesting ALL BLACKS THINK ALIKE, is pretty much the goal of "inclusiveness." In an expanding economy, one is INCLUDED in areas one EARNS.

Change occurs naturally. It is the LAST thing Woke encourages. Woke philosophy is a mirror image of this item from the 19th Century.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

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8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

don't have a definition.  If I agree with something that someone else says is woke, then all well and good. 

if you don't have a definition for it then how could you possibly agree that something was 'woke'.  That's like saying ' i have no idea what a wombinator is, but i agree that is one".  :)

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

The question "are you woke" is meaningless. 

 well of course it has meaning. Just because YOU don't have a definition doesn't mean NOBODY does, and it certainly doesn't mean you can't think about it now and develop one

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

How can one answer the question?

Pretty simple, If as the dictionary says you subscribe to the left wing ideology of social justice especially racial, then do the degree that you do you are 'woke'.

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, I'm woke, but just the really good, acceptable bits? 

Sure why not.  Although that would leave a larger question of 'acceptable by whom?"

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

I daresay @Deluge won't be happy with that.

Meh. We'll find something else for him to be happy with.

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Just now, reason10 said:

"Social Justice" is just a code name for NAZISM.

God dude we get enough of that from airhead antifa. Enough with the nazi garbage. It's not a code for 'nazi'.  It's a code for being a privileged brain dead buffoon perhaps but lets just all stop calling everything 'nazi'.

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16 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Wokeness has core beliefs that start with "white privilege". ALL supporters of wokeness agree that "white privilege" is real, and that it's a major problem within societies across the globe. 

Wokeness supporters have more in common; they all support/embrace: LGBT, Illegal Immigration, Abortion rights, Climate Change/Crisis, mask mandates, and so on..

So you see, there may be slight differences in some parts of what being woke is, but the core aspects of it are shared by all leftists. 

Well, I'm pro-choice, but I support the right of biological women over trans women.

I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is.  It really doesn't matter to me at all.

I think that Black Lives Matter but I think defunding the police is an utterly stupid position to take.

I support your right to believe whatever you want, but I oppose any attempt by any religion to impose their views on anyone else, for any reason, and I have no qualms about saying Islam is by far the worst at that.

I support the welfare state but I support means testing.

I support immigration (I'm an immigrant) but not illegal immigration.  I support immediate deportations for any immigrant found guilty of a crime.

I support freedom of speech for anyone, regardless of how offensive that speech might be, to pretty much how the US First Amendment defines it.  I think it's okay to hate, and it's okay to express that hate.

So how woke am I, exactly.

I realize I'm woker than you, but I have no idea how woke I actually am.

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5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

So how woke am I, exactly.

I realize I'm woker than you, but I have no idea how woke I actually am.

it's not hard to work out.  Of your points:

1 - not woke at all. Must recognize trans equality. That's a hard left wing position.

2 - not very woke at all. Defunding the police is a large part of the intersectional racial agenda

3 - not woke at all

4 - not woke at all, should support unconditional welfare and better yet ubi

5 - not woke at all, you must support illegal immigration and a 'no borders' policy.

6 - not woke at all, you should be against anyting that is classified by your left wing peer group as 'misinformation'.

 

So most of those are not just 'not woke' but would draw the hatred of anyone who was woke.

So 'not woke at all' would be correct. Go back to sleep :)

 

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5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

if you don't have a definition for it then how could you possibly agree that something was 'woke'.  That's like saying ' i have no idea what a wombinator is, but i agree that is one".

I didn't.  I said "If I agree with something that someone else says is woke, then all well and good."

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

well of course it has meaning. Just because YOU don't have a definition doesn't mean NOBODY does, and it certainly doesn't mean you can't think about it now and develop one

The more definitions it has the less meaning the question "are you woke" has.

 

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Pretty simple, If as the dictionary says you subscribe to the left wing ideology of social justice especially racial, then do the degree that you do you are 'woke'.

If all it takes is to not be racist, then I'm woke.  What if my not being racist just involves me being "colour blind"?

What if I'm not racist, but I really like and support the police?

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure why not.  Although that would leave a larger question of 'acceptable by whom?"

Exactly, it would depend on their definition.

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10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

it's not hard to work out.  Of your points:

1 - not woke at all. Must recognize trans equality. That's a hard left wing position.

2 - not very woke at all. Defunding the police is a large part of the intersectional racial agenda

3 - not woke at all

4 - not woke at all, should support unconditional welfare and better yet ubi

5 - not woke at all, you must support illegal immigration and a 'no borders' policy.

6 - not woke at all, you should be against anyting that is classified by your left wing peer group as 'misinformation'.

 

So most of those are not just 'not woke' but would draw the hatred of anyone who was woke.

So 'not woke at all' would be correct. Go back to sleep :)

 

I'm a fascist, and I never knew it!

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25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I didn't.  I said "If I agree with something that someone else says is woke, then all well and good."

Fair - i think i read that wrong initially.

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

The more definitions it has the less meaning the question "are you woke" has.

hogwash. It has exactly the same meaning, the fact that each individual percieves the meaning differently doesn't change that. You could say the same of almost any word or question, and certainly any work of art. Tell an artist that art has no meaning, see how that works out ;)

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

If all it takes is to not be racist, then I'm woke. 

That's racist.  The woke believe everyone is racist except marginalized groups who can't be so if you claim to be non racist you're being racist, you're just not acknowledging it.

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What if my not being racist just involves me being "colour blind"?

That's super racist.

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What if I'm not racist, but I really like and support the police?

That's racist and oppresive.

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Exactly, it would depend on their definition.

And there's nothing wrong with that :)

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Well, I'm pro-choice, but I support the right of biological women over trans women.

I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is.  It really doesn't matter to me at all.

I think that Black Lives Matter but I think defunding the police is an utterly stupid position to take.

I support your right to believe whatever you want, but I oppose any attempt by any religion to impose their views on anyone else, for any reason, and I have no qualms about saying Islam is by far the worst at that.

I support the welfare state but I support means testing.

I support immigration (I'm an immigrant) but not illegal immigration.  I support immediate deportations for any immigrant found guilty of a crime.

I support freedom of speech for anyone, regardless of how offensive that speech might be, to pretty much how the US First Amendment defines it.  I think it's okay to hate, and it's okay to express that hate.

So how woke am I, exactly.

I realize I'm woker than you, but I have no idea how woke I actually am.

You're pro-abortion and pro-welfare, so you're woke as far as those two go.

You may have some issues with BLM, but you seem to have zero issue with "Black Lives Matter" as opposed to "All Lives Matter" so I would say that you're at least moderately woke in that area. 

Your views on religion are a bit vague, but I'm going to guess that you're more of a "separation of state FROM church" guy, than you are a "separation OF church and state" guy.  

Your view on immigration is a bit vague as well. Do you think illegal immigrants should be deported just because they are here illegally? My guess is that you don't think they should be deported for that, so that makes you at least moderately woke on illegal immigration. 

Your view on freedom of speech seems to be woke free, so I don't see any real issues there. 

Based on what's been covered above, I would say that you're somewhere between woke and moderately woke. 

 

 

 

Edited by Deluge
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13 minutes ago, Deluge said:

You're pro-abortion and pro-welfare, so you're woke as far as those two go.

You may have some issues with BLM, but you seem to have zero issue with "Black Lives Matter" as opposed to "All Lives Matter" so I would say that you're at least moderately woke in that area. 

Your views on religion are a bit vague, but I'm going to guess that you're more of a "separation of state FROM church" guy, than you are a "separation OF church and state" guy.  

Your view on immigration is a bit vague as well. Do you think illegal immigrants should be deported just because they are here illegally? My guess is that you don't think they should be deported for that, so that makes you at least moderately woke on illegal immigration. 

Your view on freedom of speech seems to be woke free, so I don't really see any real issue there. 

As a whole, I would say that you're at least moderately woke. 

 

 

 

A moderately woke fascist.

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5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

A moderately woke fascist.

 

19 minutes ago, Deluge said:

You're pro-abortion and pro-welfare, so you're woke as far as those two go.

Those aren't really 'woke' Lots of conservatives are pro abortion and pro welfare in moderation.

Edited by CdnFox
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1 minute ago, Deluge said:

Why don't you name a few? You can talk about their stance in both areas. 

Me for one. And i'll bet money right now i've fought in more elections, served on more policy boards, and attended more conventions than you.

Did you want another name?  How about Pierre Pollievre. He's been VERY clear he supports abortion in Canada as it is now and will aggressively resist change.

And i can tell you a hell of a lot of other conservatives feel the same. They believe in  LIMITED abortion, they believe in LIMITED welfare.  Most see no problem with first trimester abortions. Most believe there should be SOME saftey net for those who fall on hard times (just not free late's. )

If you believe differently then you are in the distinct minority. Not the majority.

Which is fine. Nothing wrong with holding a minorty view as far as the right is concerned, only the left requires absolute obedience to the doctrine.  But don't pretend it's otherwise.

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1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

it's not hard to work out.  Of your points:

1 - not woke at all. Must recognize trans equality. That's a hard left wing position.

2 - not very woke at all. Defunding the police is a large part of the intersectional racial agenda

3 - not woke at all

4 - not woke at all, should support unconditional welfare and better yet ubi

5 - not woke at all, you must support illegal immigration and a 'no borders' policy.

6 - not woke at all, you should be against anyting that is classified by your left wing peer group as 'misinformation'.

 

So most of those are not just 'not woke' but would draw the hatred of anyone who was woke.

So 'not woke at all' would be correct. Go back to sleep :)

 

I'm not so sure people (especially lefties) understand or are even honest about the term "equality." NONE of them give a rat's ass about the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. "equality" philosophy, which translates as EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. Equality of outcome is definitely a failed left wing concept, and including freaks in the legions of those who deserve affirmative action is just plain lunacy.

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9 minutes ago, reason10 said:

I'm not so sure people (especially lefties) understand or are even honest about the term "equality." NONE of them give a rat's ass about the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. "equality" philosophy, which translates as EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. Equality of outcome is definitely a failed left wing concept, and including freaks in the legions of those who deserve affirmative action is just plain lunacy.

I think many prefer the term "equity" to the term "equality". 

I think somewhere in between is reasonable.  But I don't know exactly where in between.

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42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Me for one. And i'll bet money right now i've fought in more elections, served on more policy boards, and attended more conventions than you.

Did you want another name?  How about Pierre Pollievre. He's been VERY clear he supports abortion in Canada as it is now and will aggressively resist change.

And i can tell you a hell of a lot of other conservatives feel the same. They believe in  LIMITED abortion, they believe in LIMITED welfare.  Most see no problem with first trimester abortions. Most believe there should be SOME saftey net for those who fall on hard times (just not free late's. )

If you believe differently then you are in the distinct minority. Not the majority.

Which is fine. Nothing wrong with holding a minorty view as far as the right is concerned, only the left requires absolute obedience to the doctrine.  But don't pretend it's otherwise.

Ok, it's obvious that you and "Pierre" have different ideas on what's conservative. 

Candace Owens and I believe that abortion is wrong, period. 

You see, pseudo-conservative, when a true conservative understands the true value of an innocent human being, they fight like hell to preserve the unborn. Radical leftists have pretty much overrun both our cultures, and you are a result of their bullshit propaganda. 

Welfare needs to go away. The only thing a TRUE conservative would support is some kind of aggressive program to get people back on their feet, and if you refuse to get back on your feet and stay on your feet then you pretty much become a menace to society. Unemployment and a program I just spoke about should be the only safety nets for the physically capable. 

Edited by Deluge
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