Man accused of fatally stabbing teen at Toronto subway station had lengthy criminal history: court documents

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You know that crime is a federal issue and health is a provincial one right?

Then why has the Supreme Court ruled against punishment as a treatment? 

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We're talking about a human being.

Why do olde tyme conservatives insist on being such sphincters when they frame the topic of mental illness?

No. We're talking about an animal who should have been caged a long time ago.

And if it makes you "feel" better, put him in an institutional cage.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Nationalist

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Letting mentally ill people who are excessively and repeatedly violent out on the streets to kill again is even MORE nuts.

So start investing in better places where they can receive care and lots of it.

Quote

You seem to have compassion for violent people with mental heath issues. It's just a shame you don't have any for their dead victims.

It's a shame you can't see that more compassion for the mentally ill is also intended to protect innocent victms.

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then why do you insist on not providing better care for the mentally ill?

Is it because you're cheapskates who don't like the fact it'll cost billions?

I'm think we should increase mental Healthcare. I do not think letting animals free to kill, a good substitute.

Do you?

[eyeball]

Just now, Nationalist said:

No. We're talking about an animal who should have bee caged a long time ago.

Adn if it makes you "feel" better, put him in an institutional cage.

I'd rather put you in one to tell you the truth. Attitudes like your's make things infinitely worse.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

I'm think we should increase mental Healthcare. I do not think letting animals free to kill, a good substitute.

Do you?

When you call an ill human being an animal it says a lot more about your own sad state of mind.

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'd rather put you in one to tell you the truth. Attitudes like your's make things infinitely worse.

For you. But hey. You have no care for victims so...ya...there's that.

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

When you call an ill human being an animal it says a lot more about your own sad state of mind.

Look Karen...I call them as I see them. This POS has proven he's unfit for civil society. Yet sopping wet li'l Libbies kept setting him out to continue his life of crime.

You wanna play doctor? Go ahead. But do it while the bad guys are not free to kill again. You can call it whatever your flowery li'l head wants. But in the end, get people like this off the streets.

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So start investing in better places where they can receive care and lots of it.

I agree but that's provincial. The feds are responsible for crimes. I agree the provinces should do more on the mental health front but the feds should be making sure that one way or another these people don't have the freedom to kill again

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's a shame you can't see that more compassion for the mentally ill is also intended to protect innocent victms.

I'm sorry - but dead teen agers and women are the worse of the two evils. And removing the bad guys from public doesn't mean they can't be treated but dead is dead.

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then why has the Supreme Court ruled against punishment as a treatment? 

Because punishment isn't a treatment.   You can't punish someone into good mental health.

But - it IS fair to say that you can say they're too dangerous to be let into the public. That's not punishment  - you're not 'punishing' a rabid dog by saying it can't play with the children. You just recognize that it would be too dangerous.

Now, humans are more complex than that and hopefully in time the person can be treated and be returned to society and you'll note that my first thoughts on the subject were 'locked up until you can prove you're not a threat anymore".  So i'm all over increasing treatment and perhaps releasing them to a secure hospital facility in time and eventually reintegrating them if they can be successfully treated and housing them permanently if not.

But - no more letting killers out to kill again. Especially just because of the colour of their skin.

I would support more care for mental health issues for sure, but that will be province by province.

[eyeball]

45 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

This POS has proven he's unfit for civil society.

So have you. The difference is you know better.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

So have you. The difference is you know better.

Right! Well... that and he hasn't killed anybody.

[Nationalist]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So have you. The difference is you know better.

How so? Did I hurt your feelings?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Right! Well... that and he hasn't killed anybody.

His attitudes have. Like I said, the mentally I'll suffer violence at the hands of the mentally fit far more than the other way around.

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

His attitudes have. Like I said, the mentally I'll suffer violence at the hands of the mentally fit far more than the other way around.

You seem to have lost all power of reason.  Regardless of the causes of mental illness, the protection of society comes first.

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You seem to have lost all power of reason.  Regardless of the causes of mental illness, the protection of society comes first.

You seem to have lost all your religious lessons. It's enough to make Jesus puke.

 

[blackbird]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You seem to have lost all your religious lessons. It's enough to make Jesus puke.

 

Just reported:   Multiple charges laid in Calgary after multiple stabbings.  What would Jesus say about that and about allowing mentally-ill violent offenders to be free to continue attacking people?

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Just reported:   Multiple charges laid in Calgary after multiple stabbings.  What would Jesus say about that and about allowing mentally-ill violent offenders to be free to continue attacking people?

(well i mean he did forgive them for nailing him to a tree just for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, soooooo....)

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Marginalizing mental illness even farther than it is at present is....nuts.

Seems like a lot of murderers and violent offenders are being found "not criminally responsible", because of mental illness.  Isn't every murder and assault crime caused by mental illness?  How do you or how does a judge know when an offender is guilty of a crime or not guilty by reason of not criminally responsible  (NCR)?  

Seems to me the legal system has been moving toward finding violent offenders NCR for a number of years now.   

How do you or a judge tell the difference between criminally responsible and NCR?  I always thought people that commit violent offences should be held criminally responsible.  What is the difference? 

Do you think all violent crimes should be treated as mental illness?

Edited April 3, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

For you. But hey. You have no care for victims so...ya...there's that.

Where exactly have I indicated that I don't care?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Just reported:   Multiple charges laid in Calgary after multiple stabbings.  What would Jesus say about that and about allowing mentally-ill violent offenders to be free to continue attacking people?

He'd probably ask wtf was wrong with those of us fortunate to be mentally fit that couldn't or wouldn't do more to ensure mentally ill were taken care of better so there'd be a lot less of these attacks. 

[blackbird]

Just now, eyeball said:

He'd probably ask wtf was wrong with those of us fortunate to be mentally fit that couldn't or wouldn't do more to ensure mentally ill were taken care of better so there'd be a lot less of these attacks. 

You didn't answer the question.  How would you tell if an accused was criminally responsible or NCR because of mental illness?   How would you deal with them?

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You didn't answer the question.  How would you tell if an accused was criminally responsible or NCR because of mental illness?   How would you deal with them?

With a doctor.  What would you do, sic a priest on them?

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Seems like a lot of murderers and violent offenders are being found "not criminally responsible", because of mental illness.  Isn't every murder and assault crime caused by mental illness?  

Do you think all violent crimes should be treated as mental illness?

No not at all.   As I pointed out the mentally ill are the victim's of more violence at the hands of the mentally fit.  And it's been like this for thousands of years, I mean you effing Christians often burned the mentally ill at the stake for demon possession ffs. It's not surprising such god-awful attitudes and misconceptions about mental illness persist to this day and why change is so slow in occuring.  But then that's what so much conservatism is all about isn't it? These aren't just your shitty attitudes you people put on display around here when this topic comes up.  These are conservative values you're flaunting.

In the meantime, Seems like and a lot could mean anything. You and likely most of the other dingbats weighing in the topic are really light on your facts. So here's a few to digest and contrast against the nonsense put up for consideration so far in this thread.

Risk Factors for Violence in Serious Mental Illness

SUMMARY

Most individuals with serious mental illness are not dangerous.

Most acts of violence are committed by individuals who are not mentally ill.

Individuals with serious mental illness are victimized by violent acts more often than they commit violent acts.

Being a young male or a substance abuser (alcohol or drugs) is a greater risk factor for violent behavior than being mentally ill.

No evidence suggests that people with serious mental illness receiving effective treatment are more dangerous than individuals in the general population.

That being said, a small number of individuals with serious mental illnesses commit acts of violence. Individuals who are not being treated commit almost all of these acts; many of them also abusing alcohol or drugs.

https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/evidence-and-research/learn-more-about/3633-risk-factors-for-violence-in-serious-mental-illness

Edited April 3, 2023 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I mean you effing Christians often burned the mentally ill at the stake for demon possession ffs. It's not surprising such god-awful attitudes and misconceptions about mental illness persist to this day and why change is so slow in occuring.  But then that's what so much conservatism is all about isn't it?