Man accused of fatally stabbing teen at Toronto subway station had lengthy criminal history: court documents

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

With a doctor.  What would you do, sic a priest on them?

You still have not really answered with an understandable answer.  What defines the difference between a NCR crime and a regular crime?  Are not all violent crimes caused by mental issues?  

If you say a doctor decides, isn't that purely subjective?  Just a matter of opinion whether someone was crazy or knew what they were doing?  How does a doctor decide if a person was crazy?   Why should that used to escape punishment for a crime?

Edited April 4, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No not at all.   As I pointed out the mentally ill are the victim's of more violence at the hands of the mentally fit.  And it's been like this for thousands of years, I mean you effing Christians often burned the mentally ill at the stake for demon possession ffs. It's not surprising such god-awful attitudes and misconceptions about mental illness persist to this day and why change is so slow in occuring.  But then that's what so much conservatism is all about isn't it? These aren't just your shitty attitudes you people put on display around here when this topic comes up.  These are conservative values you're flaunting.

In the meantime, Seems like and a lot could mean anything. You and likely most of the other dingbats weighing in the topic are really light on your facts. So here's a few to digest and contrast against the nonsense put up for consideration so far in this thread.

Risk Factors for Violence in Serious Mental Illness

SUMMARY

Most individuals with serious mental illness are not dangerous.

Most acts of violence are committed by individuals who are not mentally ill.

Individuals with serious mental illness are victimized by violent acts more often than they commit violent acts.

Being a young male or a substance abuser (alcohol or drugs) is a greater risk factor for violent behavior than being mentally ill.

No evidence suggests that people with serious mental illness receiving effective treatment are more dangerous than individuals in the general population.

That being said, a small number of individuals with serious mental illnesses commit acts of violence. Individuals who are not being treated commit almost all of these acts; many of them also abusing alcohol or drugs.

https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/evidence-and-research/learn-more-about/3633-risk-factors-for-violence-in-serious-mental-illness

The problem you are ignoring is that much random attacks and violence is likely caused by people with mental illness.  

You refuse to admit that society is full of people with mental illness and you offer not way to protect society from people with mental issues.

This issue has nothing to do with Christians, demon possession, or history.  Putting unstable dangerous people in an institution is the only way to ensure the safety of the general public.  I don't think anyone can understand you and leftist NDP reasoning of not protecting the public.   Law enforcement has always been public safety first.  Society can not leave dangerous mentally ill people on the loose and put the public at risk.  The public is getting sick of what is going on every day.

You mention nothing about protecting the public.  If you're trying to be a good citizen, why doesn't protection of the public enter into it?   Society cannot solve the problem of drug addicts and mental illness over night and might never be able to, but there is a responsibility to protect the public now.   This is not just a political party issue as you seem to think.  This is just common sense.

The problems of mental illness is complex and there are likely many factors involved.  Nobody can solve that anytime soon, but government does have a responsibility to protect the public now.

Edited April 4, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

With a doctor.  What would you do, sic a priest on them?

How would a doctor know whether it was a crime or not criminally responsible?  What is the definition?  If an offender is found mentally ill, why should he be released onto the streets anyway?  Shouldn't a dangerous offender be in an institution regardless of the reason he assaulted or killed someone?

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You still have not really answered with an understandable answer.  What defines the difference between a NCR crime and a regular crime?  Are not all violent crimes caused by mental issues?

No. 

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If you say a doctor decides, isn't that purely subjective?  Just a matter of opinion whether someone was crazy or knew what they were doing?  How does a doctor decide if a person was crazy?

 

How does a doctor decide if you have any other disease?  It's a matter of an informed educated opinion and often that of a team of doctors and specialists. 

Quote

Why should that used to escape punishment for a crime?

For the same reason you escape punishment for cancer.

You need to ask questions that are more educated by science and less influenced by religion.  Deluded screwball thinking is not mental illness btw it's just really ignorant.

[eyeball]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The problem you are ignoring is that much random attacks and violence is likely caused by people with mental illness.

That's not what medical experts in the field are saying at all. In fact they're saying the exact opposite.  To be blunt most of the violence is simply caused by people who are being a-holes.

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Putting unstable dangerous people in an institution is the only way to ensure the safety of the general public.  I don't think anyone can understand you and leftist NDP reasoning of not protecting the public.   Law enforcement has always been public safety first.  Society can not leave dangerous mentally ill people on the loose and put the public at risk.  The public is getting sick of what is going on every day.

You mention nothing about protecting the public.  If you're trying to be a good citizen, why doesn't protection of the public enter into it?   Society cannot solve the problem of drug addicts and mental illness over night and might never be able to, but there is a responsibility to protect the public now.

You're as deaf as you are blind if it is not clear to you that doing more to treat mental illness is what will protect the public.

Your problem along with so many other conservatives is that you want the justice system to be a vengeance system.  As an ideology or political movement conservatism simply lacks the moral and ethical background required for rendering the  care that's both appropriate and more effective. You just can't expect that where punishment is so close to the hearts of people rendering it.  I'm all for institutions but I doubt they'd resemble anything you'd be interested in.

Quote

 

This is not just a political party issue as you seem to think.  This is just common sense.

Bloody right it's a political party issue, look at PP. Instead of pressing the government on the issue of a lack of adequate health care funding for mental illness he's choosing to yack about soft-on-crime (yawn) catch-and-release programs for criminals.

Quote

The problems of mental illness is complex and there are likely many factors involved.  Nobody can solve that anytime soon, but government does have a responsibility to protect the public now.

It's always had that responsibility, the reason it sucks at it so badly is because we're not more responsible for ensuring we're more compassionate as a society. That's what Jesus would say and do.  Or do you figure that's the government's job?  How much do you want to bet that last comment will have several right-wingers knees jerking and tongues wagging? Lol!

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Where exactly have I indicated that I don't care?

When you argued for compassion for criminals.

[blackbird]

59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's always had that responsibility, the reason it sucks at it so badly is because we're not more responsible for ensuring we're more compassionate as a society.

What you don't seem to understand is crime, mental illness is a deeply rooted part of society and the first priority of government is to protect society from illegal behaviors that harm people.  It would be nice if government could just change society by spending a lot of money for mental councilors, and clinics, but that won't solve the problem for a variety of reasons. Government simply does not have the power to change society and eliminate mental illness, as least not in the short term.   Many people do not see themselves in need of treatment for one thing.  The problem may have become much worse because of the pandemic and the homelessness and high cost of living.  The government is spending vast amounts of money trying to solve homelessness, but that will take years if it can even be solved.  Secondly, there is no guarantee that a counselor or clinic will solve the problems even in the long term.  The main issue is public safety, which you seem to ignore.  I haven't figured out why you don't seem concerned about that.  

The only solution I see for that is to do something fast and that is to put people with mental problems in institutions now and if give them counseling while they are there.  Keep them off the streets.  That would be the only way to protect the public that would work.  But I don't see that happening because of all the do-gooders who think mentally ill people should not be locked up and want to just spend more money on clinics and counsellors and maybe drugs as the solution.   That's not going to protect the public.   Anyway, I don't see any sign that you are willing to acknowledge the problem.

Edited April 4, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

When you argued for compassion for criminals.

No, I didn't do that but I suspect I probably wouldn't be anywhere near harsh enough on actual criminals for you to avoid mistaking that for bleeding-hearted mollycoddling.

I'm arguing for compassion for mentally people because I believe doing that will make our society better for everyone.

Edited April 4, 2023 by eyeball

[eyeball]

40 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The main issue is public safety, which you seem to ignore.  I haven't figured out why you don't seem concerned about that.  

Again I say, the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators of violence.  The public is not in anywhere near the same danger and what danger it is in from the mentally ill could be almost eliminated if we would only provide better mental health care.

Quote

Anyway, I don't see any sign that you are willing to acknowledge the problem.

Says the guy who thinks the world's problems stem from people not getting right by Jesus.  I'm sorry but your thinking is just so crippled with delusion that you can't be taken seriously. At all. 

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Again I say, the mentally ill are more likely to be the victims of violence than perpetrators of violence.

That's not what we hear on the news every day.  All we hear is innocent people are attacked randomly on rapid transit or on the street.   Your claim that mentally ill are the victims sounds like a fabrication.  Nothing on the news says that.

 

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Says the guy who thinks the world's problems stem from people not getting right by Jesus. 

Funny how you have an axe to grind against Bible believers.  You seem obsessed about that.  You mentioned it more than once today.  You need help yourself.  You know what the problem is but are not willing to accept it yourself.  

It is a fact that humans have a corrupt heart and are fallen beings, which is one reason why there is crime and people being attacked for nothing.  But your idea that the government can solve that by simply increasing mental health clinics is a bit of fiction.  Many mentally ill people are not willing to admit they have a problem and will not go to a clinic.  Others are just crooked and will continue with crime unless incarcerated.  

Your idea that government can solve everything is just not a realistic idea.  That is more of a Socialist idea that government can solve everything and build a utopia.

It is better to accept the fact there are many dangerous people out there that should be locked up in an institution.  The main purpose of government is law and order first and public safety, not try to social engineer society to create a utopia.  That never worked before and won't work now.

 

[Nationalist]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, I didn't do that but I suspect I probably wouldn't be anywhere near harsh enough on actual criminals for you to avoid mistaking that for bleeding-hearted mollycoddling.

I'm arguing for compassion for mentally people because I believe doing that will make our society better for everyone.

As I have said, I don't care whether it's a jail or a mental institute. Just get these criminals off the streets and stop letting them out.

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

That's not what we hear on the news every day.  All we hear is innocent people are attacked randomly on rapid transit or on the street.   Your claim that mentally ill are the victims sounds like a fabrication.  Nothing on the news says that.

Oh well, we all know why that is don't we?

Quote

Funny how you have an axe to grind against Bible believers.

Mostly you in particular. Even though I'm an atheist I'm easily more Christian in my outlook than you could ever hope to be.

Quote

It is better to accept the fact there are many dangerous people out there that should be locked up in an institution.  The main purpose of government is law and order first and public safety, not try to social engineer society to create a utopia.  That never worked before and won't work now.

Sure but I'm not prepared to sit back and let people like you design or God help us actually run these places.  That never worked before and it never will.  These institutions need be like utopias for the mentally ill instead of a hell on earth.  In any case we'd need a lot fewer institutions if there was more done to diagnose and treat serious mental illness earlier and before it worsens.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

As I have said, I don't care whether it's a jail or a mental institute. Just get these criminals off the streets and stop letting them out.

You've also said the mentally ill are animals. Go educate yourself, maybe volunteer at a soup kitchen. Otherwise STFU because you've got nothing constructive to bring to the topic at all and you only make it worse by maintaining your values or whatever it is you call them.

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You've also said the mentally ill are animals

Maybe he's referring to the ones that assault, stab and kill people daily on the news.  It's reasonable to think people that do those kind of things are acting like animals my friend.  Certainly not civilized, sane behavior.  They do need to be locked up, but all we hear on the news is criminals being arrested one day and released a day or two later.  

Edited April 4, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I'm arguing for compassion for mentally people

No, I think you are opposing and mocking people who believe dangerous offenders should be in an institution and not out on the streets.  Where's your compassion for normal people and society in general?  If dangerous people were put in a mental institution, they could receive compassionate counseling there, don't you think?

[Nationalist]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You've also said the mentally ill are animals. Go educate yourself, maybe volunteer at a soup kitchen. Otherwise STFU because you've got nothing constructive to bring to the topic at all and you only make it worse by maintaining your values or whatever it is you call them.

Oh quit lying. Go cry to ur momma.

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, I think you are opposing and mocking people who believe dangerous offenders should be in an institution and not out on the streets.  Where's your compassion for normal people and society in general?  If dangerous people were put in a mental institution, they could receive compassionate counseling there, don't you think?

Compassion? Where's the compassion for VICTIMS?

Edited April 4, 2023 by Nationalist

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Maybe he's referring to the ones that assault, stab and kill people daily on the news.  It's reasonable to think people that do those kind of things are acting like animals my friend.  Certainly not civilized, sane behavior.  They do need to be locked up, but all we hear on the news is criminals being arrested one day and released a day or two later.  

No it's not reasonable to think the way you guys do when you understand the difference between animals and human beings, illness and fitness and especially the difference between treatment and punishment. 

It sounds like what your hear all the time on the news is what you want to hear. I think the media is doing what it usually does, which is lead with what bleeds, and I think it's causing you to exaggerate.

If there is any reason to think that there is an increase in the number of incidents its likely smaller than you think and more connected to the crumbling state of our health system in the same way that other diseases and injuries are exacerbated by poor the funding and delivery of health services. 

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, I think you are opposing and mocking people who believe dangerous offenders should be in an institution and not out on the streets.  Where's your compassion for normal people and society in general?  If dangerous people were put in a mental institution, they could receive compassionate counseling there, don't you think?

Not from you people in your institutions. No way.

[blackbird]

56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not from you people in your institutions. No way.

Perhaps you believe in Darwinism and don't think there is such a thing as evil or sin or God.  Is that the problem?

Therefore violent offenders are not doing evil or sinful things to others.  They are all people with an injury to their brain caused by other people or society.  Nobody is responsible for their own behavior, right?  

You need to realize there is a God and everyone will be held accountable for their lives.  Everyone needs to be redeemed or saved.

Don't dismiss this because there is plenty of evidence that there is a God and the Bible is true.

Evolution is a false dogma that denies the Bible truth.

 ‘Sin’ becomes a consequence of our genetic makeup, our imagined evolutionary origins, not our moral choices that offend a holy God."

The growth of atheism

"

The census data in Australia show the growth of atheism. From 1901 to 1966 fewer than 3% regarded themselves as having ‘no religion’, but the number rose steadily from 1971 onwards to over 30% by 2016.

What changed in the 1960s that could account for this rise of atheism? State education departments introduced the teaching of evolution to all students in general science in middle high school. Up until that time, only senior high school biology students got evolutionary teaching, a tiny proportion of the total student population."

‘Flattened by the evolution steamroller’?! (creation.com)

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

1. Perhaps you believe in Darwinism and don't think there is such a thing as evil or sin or God.  Is that the problem?

2. Therefore violent offenders are not doing evil or sinful things to others.  They are all people with an injury to their brain caused by other people or society.  Nobody is responsible for their own behavior, right?

1. No, it's not a problem at all.

2. No, notwithstanding a NCR ruling that's based on a qualified medical diagnosis that account's for the behaviour.

[blackbird]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

a NCR ruling that's based on a qualified medical diagnosis that account's for the behaviour.

 When it comes to psychiatry or psychology, I doubt there is any "qualified medical  diagnosis" even possible.  Psychiatry is used as a tool by defense lawyers to get their client off by being declared "not criminally responsible" on the basis of an alleged mental condition.  I think it is largely bogus "science".

I have a book called "Psycho Heresy" by Dave Hunt.  This book exposes the fallacies and failures of psychological counseling theories and therapies.

You likely have never studied any of this.  You just automatically believe anything you hear from the heathen or secular humanist media or sources.  Much of government is run by Romanists, Papists who believe in the psychiatry heresies and false claims.

"Psychotherapists have shown little validity in analysis of past behavior or in their prediction of future behavior".

That's why it is foolish to allow psychiatrists and psychotherapists to be an authority of what should be done with dangerous offenders.

I am sure the guy that was released by the parole board and went to the Cree nations and stabbed eleven people to death was released on the advice of some psychiatrists given to the parole board.  Do you really think they would release someone like that without seeking so-called professional advice from a psychiatrist?

"

Psychiatry is a vicious enemy of Christianity and the Bible.

Psychiatry is Anti-Christian Psychiatry is unBiblical Psychiatry is Atheistic Psychiatry is Humanistic Psychiatry is Evolutionist

Edited April 5, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

a NCR ruling that's based on a qualified medical diagnosis that account's for the behaviour.

""Psychotherapists have shown little validity in analysis of past behavior or in their prediction of future behavior".  Just look at the Cree Nation mass killing case last September.

Psychiatry is Anti-Christian, Atheistic and Humanistic (bible.ca)

Edited April 5, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

""Psychotherapists have shown little validity in analysis of past behavior or in their prediction of future behavior".  Just look at the Cree Nation mass killing case last September.

Psychiatry is Anti-Christian, Atheistic and Humanistic (bible.ca)

At least you're being honest about why you don't give a shit.