WestCanMan Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 1:37 PM, CdnFox said: That might be true if it weren't for the fact that covid still affected young people even if it didn't kill them. Thousands are going through long covid with life altering results. Ditto for vax-injured youths. Judging by the fact that only 11 kids in Canada under 12 died from covid in the first two years of the "pandemic", it's not doing that much harm. I've only ever heard "Kids should get vaccinated" from the vax-Nazis, I've never heard specifics on how many kids suffer long-term health issues from covid. FYI every time covid passes through a body it has a chance to mutate, vaxed or unvaxed. Seeing as the vax doesn't prevent infection, it provides no "anti-mutation" benefits at all. It's just more vaxtard disinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/26/2023 at 3:37 PM, CdnFox said: Since vaccines and variants have come out there are fewer cases. That's something they can count. None of what you said is true. FYI covid deaths in Canada in 2022 were the highest of any year, by far, and almost 90% of covid deaths in this country were among the multi-vaxed (85.7%). The only reason you feel like covid infections and deaths are down is because propaganda is down by 95%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Ditto for vax-injured youths. Judging by the fact that only 11 kids in Canada under 12 died from covid in the first two years of the "pandemic", it's not doing that much harm. I've only ever heard "Kids should get vaccinated" from the vax-Nazis, I've never heard specifics on how many kids suffer long-term health issues from covid. I've seen only a few studies and they're pretty deeply flawed so i won't bother posting them. I think identifying long covid in children is more challenging and often it's the parents doing the reporting. For example one of the symptoms for the 0-3's was "moody". REAAAAAALY! A moody 3 year old! Imagine! MUST be long covid I haven't seen much research that's compelling to suggest it's a big problem in kids. There seems to be some indication that it does happen but there's no where near the data there is for adults. 19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: FYI every time covid passes through a body it has a chance to mutate, vaxed or unvaxed. In theory. Of course the reality is it doesn't every time. And some of the variants are unsuited to continue and die out. 19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Seeing as the vax doesn't prevent infection, it provides no "anti-mutation" benefits at all. It's just more vaxtard disinformation. It doesn't against omicron. It did a little against delta and it did a lot against the original. And we were talking about vaxxing kids when the vaccines first came out so that would ahve been original and leading into delta. Edited February 28, 2023 by CdnFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: None of what you said is true. Of course it's true. The evidence is clear. Hell you can get the raw data and count for yourself if you doubt it. 17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: FYI covid deaths in Canada in 2022 were the highest of any year, by far, and almost 90% of covid deaths in this country were among the multi-vaxed (85.7%). That's nice. We're talking about long covid. I' m afraid i have a strict "one conspiracy theory at a time per person' policy 17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: The only reason you feel like covid infections and deaths are down is because propaganda is down by 95%. That might be true .... if i had ever suggested for a moment that i think covid infections or deaths are down. I have not. Not once. I said that long covid cases per infections is down. And they are. Were you deliberately misquoting me or did you just read to fast and misread what i wrote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 10 hours ago, CdnFox said: The evidence is clear. Present it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Goddess said: Present it then. Sure -you learn to read and count and then i'll post it for you Not much point before that is there you buffoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: I've seen only a few studies and they're pretty deeply flawed so i won't bother posting them. I think identifying long covid in children is more challenging and often it's the parents doing the reporting. For example one of the symptoms for the 0-3's was "moody". REAAAAAALY! A moody 3 year old! Imagine! MUST be long covid So, in other words, nothing. But hey, "LET'S VAX THOSE KIDDIES!" By Dec 2021 there were 11 covid deaths among Canadian kids under 12. That was the month they started vaxing them. 11 months later another 30 kids in that group died "of covid". 3 times as many kids in half the time. That's 6x as fast. That's not good. Quote In theory. Of course the reality is it doesn't every time. And some of the variants are unsuited to continue and die out. You're not making any sense. Of course there's a chance to mutate every time, and like I said, the vax doesn't prevent infection (or anything else). Quote It doesn't against omicron. It did a little against delta and it did a lot against the original. And we were talking about vaxxing kids when the vaccines first came out so that would ahve been original and leading into delta. It doesn't against omicron, it didn't against delta (50% of ICU patients in Israel were 2x-vaxed shortly after the vax came out), and it only theoretically worked against the original strain. "Delta threw us a curve" the minute the vax came out. Long story short - there were more covid deaths in Canada in 2022 than any other year, we were 85% vaxed that whole time, and 85.7% of covid deaths were among the multi-vaxed. But it works really well 'in the lab'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: Of course it's true. The evidence is clear. Hell you can get the raw data and count for yourself if you doubt it. That's nice. We're talking about long covid. I' m afraid i have a strict "one conspiracy theory at a time per person' policy That might be true .... if i had ever suggested for a moment that i think covid infections or deaths are down. I have not. Not once. I said that long covid cases per infections is down. And they are. Were you deliberately misquoting me or did you just read to fast and misread what i wrote? Dude, long covid.... are you serious right now? Can you show me where you get these stats about children with long covid? Or is this more Global drivel? Isn't it weird that more Canadians died of covid in 2022 than any other year but the MSM completely ignored it? Why is that? What changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: So, in other words, nothing. But hey, "LET'S VAX THOSE KIDDIES!" Nothing worth giving serious consideration to at any rate. But honestly i don't think long covid was the impetus for the 'vax the kids' campaign. 18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: 3 times as many kids in half the time. That's 6x as fast. That's not good. True but correlation isn't causation. It could be that just more kids were catching it or the like. Honestly i've read a fair bit about covid related topics but this is one i haven't studied much, so i can't really comment with confidence. 20 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: You're not making any sense. Of course there's a chance to mutate every time, and like I said, the vax doesn't prevent infection (or anything else). I'm making perfect sense. Let me assist you with your comprehension problems Every time a new vax cell is created there's a chance of mutation (it has nothing to do with 'passing through' anyone.) But - the chance is tiny and generally they don't because their biology is resistant to that, and even when they do the new mutation often doesn't survive. Which is why we don't see a lot of wide spread variants. 24 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: t doesn't against omicron, it didn't against delta (50% of ICU patients in Israel were 2x-vaxed shortly after the vax came out), and it only theoretically worked against the original strain. "Delta threw us a curve" the minute the vax came out. No, that's just misinformation that those who are more interested in an agenda than the truth spout. There's been a tonne of research and they have a pretty good grasp as to why this is, never mind that it actually is. Against the original it was surprisingly effective. Not 100 percent by any stretch but very effective nonetheless. Against delta - not so much. Definitely still had an effect but much reduced from the original. Omicron - basically nothing. I understand there are people out there who are DESPERATE and quasi-religious about demanding that the vaccines had NO POSSIBLE BENEFIT AT ALL AAAAAAAAHHHHHHRGH! BUt it's just not true. Considering how fast they were developed and considering how little testing went into them, their effectiveness was nothing short of miraculous. Which isn't saying all that much - if they did ANYTHING in that timeframe it was miraculous But - far from perfect and there are real concerns and issues around them not to mention real risks, and we can definitely discuss the radical religious zealotry that developed around taking them. But - pretending they didn't work when they quite obviously did is simply childish. No point in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Sure -you learn to read and count and then i'll post it for you Not much point before that is there you buffoon. So, you got nothing to support your claims. KK. Amazing how every single time I ask for the studies and data, you guys got nada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Goddess said: So, you got nothing to support your claims. KK. Amazing how every single time I ask for the studies and data, you guys got nada. Nobody with a brain has asked me to. I don't generally bother looking information up for chimpanzees You wouldn't understand the studies anyway, many of the words are more than two syllables But hey - way to fight that whole 'anti vaxxers are stupid' stereotype. Your parents must be so proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 hours ago, CdnFox said: Nothing worth giving serious consideration to at any rate. But honestly i don't think long covid was the impetus for the 'vax the kids' campaign. No one has ever given a satisfactory reason for vaxing kids to this day, but just yesterday Gobal was bemoaning the fact that only 21% of kids in BC are pseudovaxed. Quote True but correlation isn't causation. It could be that just more kids were catching it or the like. Honestly i've read a fair bit about covid related topics but this is one i haven't studied much, so i can't really comment with confidence. True but: 1) Before you vax a bunch of kids, you should have a good reason for vaxing them, and that was never given 2) After you vax a bunch of kids, you should have a positive change of some sort, not a harsh negative Quote I'm making perfect sense. Let me assist you with your comprehension problems Every time a new vax cell is created there's a chance of mutation (it has nothing to do with 'passing through' anyone.) But - the chance is tiny and generally they don't because their biology is resistant to that, and even when they do the new mutation often doesn't survive. Which is why we don't see a lot of wide spread variants. We're both saying the same thing. I say covid has a chance to mutate when it passes through a person, you say when it goes into each cell, it's the same thing on a different level. So, at the very beginning, when I said that "covid has a chance to mutate every time someone gets infected", I was correct. You just wanted to disagree. Quote No, that's just misinformation that those who are more interested in an agenda than the truth spout. There's been a tonne of research and they have a pretty good grasp as to why this is, never mind that it actually is. There's no misinformation there at all. Israel was the first country vaxed due to their wealth relative to their small population. Almost no one was vaxed here by the time data came back from their ICUs showing that 50% of patients were double-vaxed. Remember that at that time we were being told that "We wouldn't get infected and we couldn't spread covid" if we got that 'vaccine'. The Israeli data instantly showed that the jab was not a 'vaccine' at all, by the standards we grew up with. It never got any better. Now we have 85% of our country vaxed and more deaths than ever in 2022. Normally an epidemiologist would be able to look at a vax deaths timeline and say "85% of the population was vaxed in this time period....". With the covid jab it's not evident at all. Deaths just went up after 85% of Canadians vaxed.... Quote Against the original it was surprisingly effective. Not 100 percent by any stretch but very effective nonetheless. Against delta - not so much. Definitely still had an effect but much reduced from the original. Omicron - basically nothing. 2x-vaxed people were dying right away when the vax came out. The vax either never got to face ancestral covid, or it just wasn't effective against it. Quote I understand there are people out there who are DESPERATE and quasi-religious about demanding that the vaccines had NO POSSIBLE BENEFIT AT ALL AAAAAAAAHHHHHHRGH! BUt it's just not true. It's not a matter of whether or not the vaxes worked at all imo. It's possible that they helped a little bit, but the death toll doesn't really show it if that's the case. What matters is: 1) Did the vax prevent young people, who didn't need its protection, from spreading covid? No, not at all. 2) Did the vax ever work well enough to justify forcing young people who didn't need it, to take it? No, there was never a time when the vax appeared to be 'preventing' infection. Pfizer now says that they never told us it would prevent infection. I don't care who vaxes, how many times, I don't even mind that it's on the taxpayer dime. What matters is: The mandates were never proven to be necessary, now with the benefit of hindsight we know they were almost completely useless, and it was an absolute travesty to inflict it on unwilling people who didn't need it. The worst-case secnario came true - people who were never at any risk at all from covid died or were injured by the vax they were forced to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: No one has ever given a satisfactory reason for vaxing kids to this day, but just yesterday Gobal was bemoaning the fact that only 21% of kids in BC are pseudovaxed. Yeah, well. gotta sell papers i guess. I think since omicron it's kind of a hard sell to get ANYONE to take the vaccines unless you're in a high risk group. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: True but: 1) Before you vax a bunch of kids, you should have a good reason for vaxing them, and that was never given 2) After you vax a bunch of kids, you should have a positive change of some sort, not a harsh negative Fair point. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: We're both saying the same thing. I say covid has a chance to mutate when it passes through a person, you say when it goes into each cell, it's the same thing on a different level. So, at the very beginning, when I said that "covid has a chance to mutate every time someone gets infected", I was correct. You just wanted to disagree. No, you just missed my point. I did not dispute what you said. I however added that while it has a chance, it generally doesn't and is very resistant to mutation. So while there's a "chance" its small. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: There's no misinformation there at all. It is entirely misinformation. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Israel was the first country vaxed due to their wealth relative to their small population. it was the first to get vaxxed because they negotiated a brilliant deal to provide medical data back to the drug companies. the drug hadn't been properly tested as you'll recall, there wasn't time. So this was of significant benefit to the companies. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Almost no one was vaxed here by the time data came back from their ICUs showing that 50% of patients were double-vaxed. Remember that at that time we were being told that "We wouldn't get infected and we couldn't spread covid" if we got that 'vaccine'. Yes - turned out that waiting longer between jabs made a huge difference. Canada adopted that policy and had great results. And the fact you think 50 percent on it's own is a relevant number strongly suggests you're not aware of how these numbers work. IF you were you'd have included the percent of the population vaccinated at the time. Further you'd have to look at the danger factors for the people admitted. The number on it's own is utterly irrelevant. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: The Israeli data instantly showed that the jab was not a 'vaccine' at all, by the standards we grew up with. Childish word games. The idea of the vaccine was to prevent infection where possible and reduce harm where it was contracted. NO VACCINE IN HISTORY has EVER been 100 percent effective at blocking transmission. In fact 60 percent is considered very good. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: It never got any better. Now we have 85% of our country vaxed and more deaths than ever in 2022. no, we really don't. I can explain how those numbers work for you as well if you want me to but the number of people actually dying FROM covid isn't that high. The number dying WITH covid is, but that's just becasue the latest variant is ery very contagious. And we both agree the vaccine does squat to prevent transmission with it 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Normally an epidemiologist would be able to look at a vax deaths timeline and say "85% of the population was vaxed in this time period....". With the covid jab it's not evident at all. Deaths just went up after 85% of Canadians vaxed.... Nope. You are again misunderstanding the numbers 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: 2x-vaxed people were dying right away when the vax came out. No they werent . 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: The vax either never got to face ancestral covid, or it just wasn't effective against it. Yes it did and yes it was, 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: It's not a matter of whether or not the vaxes worked at all imo. It's possible that they helped a little bit, but the death toll doesn't really show it if that's the case. It is, it was more than a little, they don't. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: What matters is: 1) Did the vax prevent young people, who didn't need its protection, from spreading covid? No, not at all. I would agree that there's little evidence that it did. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: 2) Did the vax ever work well enough to justify forcing young people who didn't need it, to take it? No, there was never a time when the vax appeared to be 'preventing' infection. Pfizer now says that they never told us it would prevent infection. Bullshit. And while the case isn't clear cut it's very obvious that there was a strong argument for it. However anyone who says it was for absolute sure or absolutely not is either uneducated on the subject or not being rational. There were good reasons, although there were also good reasons not to take it. Which is why it should have been left to the people to choose. 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: I don't care who vaxes, how many times, I don't even mind that it's on the taxpayer dime. What matters is: The mandates were never proven to be necessary, now with the benefit of hindsight we know they were almost completely useless, and it was an absolute travesty to inflict it on unwilling people who didn't need it. The worst-case secnario came true - people who were never at any risk at all from covid died or were injured by the vax they were forced to take. You got the first part right. And the part that says it's a travesty to inflict it on people. The idea that the 'worst case is true' is of course puerile bullshit. The idea that vaccinations of the younger adult population was 'completely useless' is also simply not supported by the facts. Whether the benefits were worth the risks is definitely open to debate but suggesting there were no benefits would be as ridiculous as saying there were no risks. You're on relatively solid ground with arguing that mandates were morally and ethically wrong, but you go way to far into areas where the facts are not in your favor to try to justfiy a position that really doesn't need any 'embellishment' to be legitimate. For first gen covid the idea of having the entire population vaccinated has some positive benefits which could be seen by a reasonable person to outweigh any risks. It did prevent transmission, and first gen covid died very quickly once vaccines came out. But - i think you could make a very strong case that the benefits did not justify setting aside people's rights to determine their own medical choices. And a reasonable person could also conclude that it wasn't safe for themselves and the benefits did NOT justify the risks. But somehow we've become so polerized as a society on this that people feel compelled to take the position that either the vaccines were perfect and sent by god and those who didn't take it want to kill their granparents and children, OR the vaccines were completely useless or so close as to make no difference and those who forced it on others were nazi baby eaters who want to control the human race. It's probably somewhere in between those positions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted March 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 9:16 AM, Goddess said: So, you got nothing to support your claims. KK. Amazing how every single time I ask for the studies and data, you guys got nada. CdnFox is a new username for one of the alt-leftists here who was relegated to the sidelines after being put on ignore by too many other users. His posts are a sewer-stream of discredited CNN/CTVtalking points without any stats or cites to back him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 3, 2023 Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 53 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: CdnFox is a new username for one of the alt-leftists here who was relegated to the sidelines after being put on ignore by too many other users. His posts are a sewer-stream of discredited CNN/CTVtalking points without any stats or cites to back him up. ROFLMAO!!! I love that the self avowed communist calls me a leftie And nope, first time here Poor little guy, you're following me around like a puppy now? You lost one argument and looked like a fool and it's bothering you so much you have to chase me and yap to make yourself feel better? I hope you don't expect me to pay rent living in your head like that (although it is spacious in here ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 8:42 AM, WestCanMan said: Cochrane reviews are frequently called the “gold standard” for evidence-based medicine. Quote Recently, a review from the Cochrane Library set off a firestorm after headlines declared research published by the respected organization's study found masks don't work and don't stop community transmission of respiratory viruses like COVID-19. However, the editor-in-chief of the Cochrane Library, Dr. Karla Soares-Weiser, issued a statement on March 10 to say the analysis had been misinterpreted and that the review didn't find that masks do not work. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/masks-effective-study-respected-group-misinterpreted/story?id=97846561 Oh well, I doubt this will faze the usual suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Oh well, I doubt this will faze the usual suspects. Actually it's more an issue of semantics. Masks work when worn properly by a trained individual. But to work they need to be fitted. No facial hair allowed. It needs to form a complete seal. They are intended to be worn during specific high risk procedures, not for general all-day use. That is why the good ones hurt to wear if kept on for too long. They have a strong elastic to keep it tight. Any deviation from the protocol puts the wearer at risk. That is why I've said for most people they create a false sense of security and thus are an increased risk. In an enclosed room full of people for a long time, most people are toast. You're safer to maintain the minimum 2 metre rule and get lots of fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: Actually it's more an issue of semantics. Masks work when worn properly by a trained individual. But to work they need to be fitted. No facial hair allowed. It needs to form a complete seal. They are intended to be worn during specific high risk procedures, not for general all-day use. That is why the good ones hurt to wear if kept on for too long. They have a strong elastic to keep it tight. Any deviation from the protocol puts the wearer at risk. That is why I've said for most people they create a false sense of security and thus are an increased risk. In an enclosed room full of people for a long time, most people are toast. You're safer to maintain the minimum 2 metre rule and get lots of fresh air. I did see some resaerch that suggested that wearing 'regular' masks (ie not perfect fit) could increase the time it takes to get an infectious dose of covid in a very enclosed environment such as someone's personal office or similar enclosed non ventilated room by almost 100 percent. In other words - if it took 15 mins of exposure to be infected before you might stretch that to as much as 30 in those specific conditions. But - that was for original covid. I don't know if even that small amount of protection would still be true with the more contagious newer variants. For me masks fall under the heading of 'might as well' just in case they help a bit but they're certainly not the face-condoms some people seem to think. Useful in specific circumstances a little, and that's about it. Maybe on busses and such it would be a really good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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