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Do we have freewill ? Do yo decide your future ?


arikel88

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4 hours ago, Yakuda said:

Knowing what someone will choose does not take away their choice. 

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

 That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

 But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

 If all sin by nature, then the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

 

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

 

 

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17 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

How is God’s prior knowledge of your choice and the choice you make independent of each other?

I didn't say they were independent I said God's knowledge of my choice doesnt prevent me from freely choosing. You're assuming Gods knowledge makes things happen. That's not the case at all unless you can show how it makes things happen and prevents other things. 

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8 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

If God knows you will choose ‘A’, then how could you ever choose ‘B’?   
You haven’t answered that.  

I did answer it. Because he knows what I will pick that isn't the same as he directs what I pick. It's a simple concept and easily shown which I have already done. My knowledge is not perfect like Gods knowledge but knowledge is knowledge and doesn't possess the power to dictate what happens. If I know my son would choose, if given a choice, playing video games over cutting the grass am I making him choose that? God HAS the power, not knowledge, thr power to do that but doesnt. 

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37 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Because he knows what I will pick that isn't the same as he directs what I pick.

No one said anything about directing.  If He knows, then how would you ever pick the other choice?  I will keep asking until you actually answer the question I asked.  But you avoid it. 

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

No one said anything about directing.  If He knows, then how would you ever pick the other choice?  I will keep asking until you actually answer the question I asked.  But you avoid it. 

If can't freely choose then it's directed. Show how God knowing my choice means I can't choose something else. You keep avoiding it 

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11 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Show how God knowing my choice means I can't choose something else.

Because then God would be wrong if he knows you’ll pick ‘A’ but you pick ‘B’.  
 

(Now you will ignore the hypothetical that God knows you will pick ‘A’).

Edited by TreeBeard
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58 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Because then God would be wrong if he knows you’ll pick ‘A’ but you pick ‘B’.  
 

(Now you will ignore the hypothetical that God knows you will pick ‘A’).

No he would know what I pick no matter what we pick. You can't accept that. That's not my problem 

 

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2 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

No he would know what I pick no matter what we pick. You can't accept that. That's not my problem 

 

You did exactly what I predicted; you ignored the hypothetical that God knows you will pick ‘A’.
 

God’s knowledge happens prior to you picking.  So if God knows you will pick ‘A’ millions of years before you were ever born, how do you pick ‘B’?

 

(I predict that once again you will ignore the hypothetical of what God knows)

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

You did exactly what I predicted; you ignored the hypothetical that God knows you will pick ‘A’.
 

God’s knowledge happens prior to you picking.  So if God knows you will pick ‘A’ millions of years before you were ever born, how do you pick ‘B’?

 

(I predict that once again you will ignore the hypothetical of what God knows)

Yes his knowledge does exist prior to my picking,now show how that prevents me from picking B which be would have know a million years before I picked it. You insist on not addressing it. 

You're coming unraveled. 

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20 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You did exactly what I predicted; you ignored the hypothetical that God knows you will pick ‘A’.
 

God’s knowledge happens prior to you picking.  So if God knows you will pick ‘A’ millions of years before you were ever born, how do you pick ‘B’?

 

(I predict that once again you will ignore the hypothetical of what God knows)

Let's try another approach 

In your scenario A is chosen. Ok. Who is choosing A? Me or God? 

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5 hours ago, Yakuda said:

I didn't say they were independent I said God's knowledge of my choice doesnt prevent me from freely choosing. You're assuming Gods knowledge makes things happen. That's not the case at all unless you can show how it makes things happen and prevents other things. 

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above is when Jesus was chosen by Yahweh to be the messiah.

Yahweh would have to insure that someone was going to sin and even kill Jesus, even before those people were born. 

That is God in full control with the other players have no free will choices in the matter.

 

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26 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Yes his knowledge does exist prior to my picking,now show how that prevents me from picking B

How do you pick ‘B’ if God knew 1 million years ago that you would pick ‘A’?

 

8 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

In your scenario A is chosen. Ok. Who is choosing A? Me or God? 

You chose ‘A’. God knew you would choose ‘A’.  You couldn’t choose ‘B’ if God already knew that you would choose ‘A’.  

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41 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How do you pick ‘B’ if God knew 1 million years ago that you would pick ‘A’?

 

You chose ‘A’. God knew you would choose ‘A’.  You couldn’t choose ‘B’ if God already knew that you would choose ‘A’.  

I chose A. Very good. Now show that I chose A because God knew I would. You haven't shown that I couldn't chose B just that God knew I wouldnt choose B. 

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34 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Who chose A? Me or God? What God knows doesn't dictate my choices. If it does you STILL haven't shown how. 

You chose.   But if God knows what you will choose, how could you ever choose something different than that?

Edited by TreeBeard
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23 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You chose.   But if God knows what you will choose, how could you ever choose something different than that?

Then its I choose it's a free choice. I can choose whatever I like. God knowing doesnt dictate my choice unless you can show me how. 

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20 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Then its I choose it's a free choice. I can choose whatever I like. God knowing doesnt dictate my choice unless you can show me how. 

Yes, you can choose anything you want, as long as it is the choice that God already knows that you will do.  You couldn’t choose anything else, or God would be wrong. 

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

Yes, you can choose anything you want, as long as it is the choice that God already knows that you will do.  You couldn’t choose anything else, or God would be wrong. 

So it's like the the ford model T you could have any color as long as it was black. The problem is only black existed. Not the case here. I choose A God knows it. I choose B God knows it. What I choose has nothing to do with what he knows. He knows what I chose no matter what I choose. Prove me wrong. You never will. 

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