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Do we have freewill ? Do yo decide your future ?


arikel88

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We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks God is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth God is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

God created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from God and his kingdom the order God has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt God and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against God and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for God gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that God and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like God because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with God on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with God's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against God freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make God like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to God for he is God and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow God's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from God's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with God. When you find the truth and love in his way that God establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with God and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru God mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.

 
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The OP is fairly incoherent and looks like a bad cut/paste.  But I’ll play along…. First, let’s grant there is this deity.  
 

Does God know what I will do before I do it?   
 

If so, how is there freewill?  God knowing what I will do, and me having freewill is a contradiction.  

 Clearly, by that definition, everything is predetermined, despite what the bible says about it. 

Edited by TreeBeard
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If religious people really believed that a God has given us free will they wouldn't complain about anything.

Obviously, they won't ever bloody shut up, so we can assume they don't believe the free will garbage.

Or at least, if they claim they do, they are hypocrites.

Edited by bcsapper
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  • 1 month later...
Because one you have since Adam " Choice " he can choose and not like the devil you can change your thinking that everything is decide you have to think outside the box ! People here the conlflict so many people is your freewill because everything is predestined you think you never had any choice God gave you A choice ! You were sent here by God A long time ago for God said he met you and knew you before you were concieved in your mother's womb. You have a plan, God planned you and sent you, you don't know it ! Yet. Were all part of God's divine plan and when he sent you here before you came to this world he gave A mission ! What is your mission or purpose ?

You can decide to use God's will, holy spirit , God's plan ( It's all separeted but works for his plan at the end !) and love in his mission your purpose or don't know and live in ignorance an sin ! He give you choice and does not force yourself to do his bidding if so you would not have freedom to choose also from Jesus salvation which he gave freely !
 
 
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He still wanted us to obey him and be in the Garden to be in paradise forever bu came the enemy ( the devil) and our paraidise ruin.
No, God-relation with man isn't like an A.I. been created or A mamal been born to be like deer or leopard and go their natural way and live life in the circle of life. Our relation was never for the animals and us to be in paradise and no animal kill each other. We were created to live and be servants of the most high our purpose was another. He made us to choose and gave us freewill since the beggining to live but those who know what destiny is and what future,past, and present know you live you born and die say you don't have freewill your life is planned already like animals and you live in the box. You can't get out, Here scientist and rational humainze come to conlfict with both clashes and realize that choosing is not real !


No, people you can choose and your decison change everything but you do not have the intelligence to be humble and to wise know, our paths are can change and predetermination and God's soveriegn and out his soveriegn do exist and have their been in destiny what he wrote changed ? Yes, God writes everything we do and writes what your going to do. But god allows probabilities billions to one that things can change and destiny can change people. We have Elijah, Huldah, and Moses who change the future of Israel and show probabilities do exist and do happen. And that's part of outside the box that they chaneg the destiny and what God told them to do with his words and authority.


Know there is born to existence and consciuonsess in this world that we are born and theologist , writtters , and greek thinkers, german thinkers like Nietzche, socrates, aristotles, and Einstein say to leave that of A born baby consciouness is original and shows only good and A way that existence is based on human efforts not true our existence is not base on our efforts. And originality is given by our consciousness and perception but know they are wrong. This is why an error remember in this discussion man cannot know evil if not for good and evil tree it is important that we realize if an A.I. created will not undertand what God established things. So know there is A difference.


1.human created A.I. and it has freedom and born crisp clean

2. God-man realationship we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey but letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did. Know this the importance of freedom we must have the relation Jesus had with God and align our will with his and originaly like he wanted and know you have freedom to do only good and it is how perfect freedom is with him and know it is better than any doubt modern thinkers like Einstien, Max Planck, Aristotles and Socrates would argue about destiny predetermination, future , past and present.


Be in God's path by putting yor will to his and avoid this conflicts.

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freewill existed before adam and eve and the devil had it he chosed to rebelled. You saw it exist does the plan of G-d involves love and choosing to be free. Choose to put you will in G-d's will becuase it cause you conflict like everyone that it's impossible don't be in the box that is fate and destiny and what you decide is cannot be without god already planning it ?
The plan of God of giving thanks always is different of how he put the laws of physics and laws of probabilities in the world don't go to conlfict everything is possible. Know that mistake was made with moses and huldah and eliajh shows that fate can be changed. But still to pray and pray and doing the impossible to change your fate your destiny of being shoemaker or being into a lawyer is possible if you want. G-d has moved the universe and the fate of our humanity in wars with assyrians when he sent an angel, he makes miracles everyday and moves time and universe. ungratefulness is what all say because they have cobnflict say it's impossible God already plan for you everything but he's plan of god about been thankful even when bad things and been faithful and obeying him in good and bad times isn't about the future beenalready planned and impossible to avoid his soveriegn and he chosed the path already !

1. what he planned premptively in how the universe wrks and moves the sun and you have night and day and you age and you were bron in A planet God wrote that. physics work and you do everyday on works and buy groceries and food he establish laws.

2.probablitlies that everything changes and destiny moves constantly even when you don't know and G-d gives you every day to change you lifespan choose a better path by eating vegetables and changing your course of life not making the bad decison going to war and decided to go have job in kentucky and you change routes. everyday people the universe makes cracks in its fabric of how the destiny and chances are made by faith by believing by praying know God hears ya and God moves it all. Everything is possible God has used jews and did incredible things like making kings out of ordinary people makins miracles and making man into prophets and moving the universe for them. God does more thinsg we don't know he does for us becuase he loves us.

3.Don't be like the scientists who say everything is already planned he is a dictator god because he already decided everything for us and didn't let us choose. know if you decided things out of nowhere and you popped out of the planet and God ceases to exist you became God you wouldn't know what was the last things God did, then you will decide everything and you will make so many errors because you can't do what God does, and realese finally he was right and he put things all for A reason. Those scientist agnostic thinks if they were God decided everything realized how hard God life is deciding everything and he gave you all but you made the bad decisions in life. You had all the freedom you woulnd't know what to do with it and just make mistakes and if you were free to do everything and be A god you wouldn't find true love you woulnd't do things you just be the same individual looking for things and think having all the freedom and you decided everything you woulnd't find that special thing God has for you at the end in heaven. You will be lost and still be unperfect those scientist just blame and if they had everything they will just mess up and realize didn't go their way either and mess up.

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See that the commandments have to do witht he will the lord spoke and gave commandments this is why were giving freewill because they were written in our heart.

everything is connected and shows the plan of God and secrets inside of it. Truly not only is God's will in his plan but to put things in God's hands, child of heart, the wil of God, the law of eden, the laws of noah, and the 10 commandments and 613 commandments in their and put love shows us the secrets of the plan of God.

 

 

 

We all have freewill and we use it but it must not rely on our efforts but on God efforts.

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  • 9 months later...
On 2/21/2023 at 6:47 PM, TreeBeard said:

The OP is fairly incoherent and looks like a bad cut/paste.  But I’ll play along…. First, let’s grant there is this deity.  
 

Does God know what I will do before I do it?   
 

If so, how is there freewill?  God knowing what I will do, and me having freewill is a contradiction.  

 Clearly, by that definition, everything is predetermined, despite what the bible says about it. 

It's incorrect to say we don't have free will if God knows what we will decide. If I asked my son to choose to either play video games or cut the grass and I KNOW what he will choose, playing video games, you're saying he ceases to have free will because of my knowledge that he will choose the former and not the latter? Pure nonsense. 

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1 hour ago, Yakuda said:

It's incorrect to say we don't have free will if God knows what we will decide. If I asked my son to choose to either play video games or cut the grass and I KNOW what he will choose, playing video games, you're saying he ceases to have free will because of my knowledge that he will choose the former and not the latter? Pure nonsense. 

Presumably your gut feeling on what your layabout son does is less certain than God's ?

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48 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Isn’t there a difference between knowing and guessing?  Can he choose to cut the grass and surprise you?

Not really. It would surprise me but not God. Again God knowing it what you will do does not eliminate free will and in all honesty never heard anyone give a solid explanation of how. 

Just now, Yakuda said:

Not really. It would surprise me but not God. Again God knowing what you will do does not eliminate free will and in all honesty never heard anyone give a solid explanation of how. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

But you haven't proven me wrong. Show your work. I did. 

This is your point:
" you're saying he ceases to have free will because of my knowledge that he will choose the former and not the latter"

... which means if we think your hot guess as to what your layabout son does is equivalent to the architect of the universe knowing.  You haven't explained that.  Seems like a bad assumption to me.

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15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is your point:
" you're saying he ceases to have free will because of my knowledge that he will choose the former and not the latter"

... which means if we think your hot guess as to what your layabout son does is equivalent to the architect of the universe knowing.  You haven't explained that.  Seems like a bad assumption to me.

No what I'm saying is my knowing what he will choose does not remove his free will. How does that work? Explain. I didn't make the assertion that Gods fore knowledge of my choices means I don't have free will. I gave an example of how that is nonsense. Now make your case to support the claim that it does remove my free will. 

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3 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. No what I'm saying is my knowing what he will choose does not remove his free will.
2. How does that work? Explain. I didn't make the assertion that Gods fore knowledge of my choices means I don't have free will. I gave an example of how that is nonsense. Now make your case to support the claim that it does remove my free will. 

1. Yes, but he may one day surprise you... and thereupon show you that he really DOES have free choice.  God wouldn't be surprised.
2. Ok but the example that applies to you doesn't apply to god.  God knows the future with metaphysical certainty or whatever.  That's why people say that the existence of an interventionist and prescient god means you only have one path.

I can't say much more about the argument.  It's not even "my" argument, it's been made elsewhere in the past and debated by people much wiser than me.

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8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, but he may one day surprise you... and thereupon show you that he really DOES have free choice.  God wouldn't be surprised.
2. Ok but the example that applies to you doesn't apply to god.  God knows the future with metaphysical certainty or whatever.  That's why people say that the existence of an interventionist and prescient god means you only have one path.

I can't say much more about the argument.  It's not even "my" argument, it's been made elsewhere in the past and debated by people much wiser than me.

Right God wouldn't be surprised but explain how that means he doesnt have a choice. 

Only insofar as I would be surprised but I have no more control over his choice than God does. God COULD control his choice but doesn't. The point applies to both at me and God, knowing what my son will choose doesnt remove his free will, unless you csn shoe how. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. Right God wouldn't be surprised but explain how that means he doesnt have a choice. 

2. Only insofar as I would be surprised but I have no more control over his choice than God does.
 

 

 

1.  Again - I am citing an argument I have heard before so I recommend you Google a full length discussion if you want more than I can provide.  It basically goes like this:

1. God knows everything, even the future.
2. God knows exactly what choices you will be making.
3. Therefore there is only one path.
4. Since you are following a predestined path, you can't choose to do anything else.

As I said, it's an old thesis so I have to step off if you dispute it any further.

2. Well... depending on your version of God.  The version I was taught had its own paradox: non-interventionist and yet knowing how it all ends... like watching a Friends rerun.  The characters in the show are going to act the same way they did last time I watched.

Good chat !

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7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Again - I am citing an argument I have heard before so I recommend you Google a full length discussion if you want more than I can provide.  It basically goes like this:

1. God knows everything, even the future.
2. God knows exactly what choices you will be making.
3. Therefore there is only one path.
4. Since you are following a predestined path, you can't choose to do anything else.

As I said, it's an old thesis so I have to step off if you dispute it any further.

2. Well... depending on your version of God.  The version I was taught had its own paradox: non-interventionist and yet knowing how it all ends... like watching a Friends rerun.  The characters in the show are going to act the same way they did last time I watched.

Good chat !

You can't see where that argument falls apart between 2 and 3? Really? 

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Again - I am citing an argument I have heard before so I recommend you Google a full length discussion if you want more than I can provide.  It basically goes like this:

1. God knows everything, even the future.
2. God knows exactly what choices you will be making.
3. Therefore there is only one path.
4. Since you are following a predestined path, you can't choose to do anything else.

As I said, it's an old thesis so I have to step off if you dispute it any further.

2. Well... depending on your version of God.  The version I was taught had its own paradox: non-interventionist and yet knowing how it all ends... like watching a Friends rerun.  The characters in the show are going to act the same way they did last time I watched.

Good chat !

BTW why would you advance an argument you aren't prepared to defend? 

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30 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

1. You can't see where that argument falls apart between 2 and 3? Really? 

2. BTW why would you advance an argument you aren't prepared to defend? 

1. No.
2. I did defend it.  I have nothing else to add to my defense though.  As I say, philosophers with long bibliographies have discussed this to and fro.  Go to them with your candle of curiosity.

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1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No.
2. I did defend it.  I have nothing else to add to my defense though.  As I say, philosophers with long bibliographies have discussed this to and fro.  Go to them with your candle of curiosity.

#3 is a conclusion based on a faulty premise. Explain how god's knowledge of a choice means there is only one path. Again if I have knowledge that my son will choose videos games over cutting the grass how does that effect his choices? I want to know how knowledge affects  control. 

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21 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Yes

So it’s nothing like the same as God’s knowledge.  Yours is just an educated guess.  
 

22 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

but according to some people because I know he won't choose to cut the grass  then he doesn't have free will 

Why the but?  No one has said he doesn’t have free will because you can accurately guess what he will do.  LOL

In God’s case, if He knows your kid will choose to cut the grass because your kid wants to surprise you, then how could your kid ever choose to play games in that case?   God KNOWS what he will do, therefore there is no other choice.  
 

How is that free will?

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