Harper vows to cut GST to 5%

[August1991]

Mission accomplished with this plan. It has dominated a news cycle, with inane criticisms coming from 'economists' and other 'leading figures'. December 1st draws to a close, in the Eastern time zone, as another successful day for the Conservatives!

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Well said, shoop.

[shoop]

Sounds like more of the tired old 'Hidden agenda' crap from the Liberals.

Why would the credit go down? That hasn't been mentioned by anyone.

Because the CPC will be desperate to find the cash to pay for the second percentage cut - reducing the credit will be a silent way to reduce the impact of the tax cut on gov't revenues.

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But things are looking up for the Conservatives.

A full 66 per cent of respondents said they found Harper's message that the election is about the need for change "very" or "somewhat" believable. That contrasts with 44 per cent who found Martin's message about the strength of the Canadian economy "very" or "somewhat" believable.

Source. CTV link

[normanchateau]

As the old saying goes normie - Two wrongs don't make a right.

True. Nor does one wrong make a right. CPC will need to replace their wrong leader with someone who's right for the right. And the right leader of the right will need to be more centre than right.

[shoop]

A quick scan of headlines this morning.

Harper's Pledge to Cut GST Reverberates - Globe and Mail

Tory tax cut promise dominates campaign day 3 - CTV

GST plan called magic bullet - Globe and Mail

Sounds like very positive news to me.

[Riverwind]

A quick scan of headlines this morning.

Harper's Pledge to Cut GST Reverberates - Globe and Mail

Tory tax cut promise dominates campaign day 3 - CTV

GST plan called magic bullet - Globe and Mail

Sounds like very positive news to me.

Did you try reading the editorials:

G&M: "Why the Conservatives shouldn't cut the GST"

The Gazette: "There are other taxes worth cutting first"

No self respecting economic conservative should support this plan - the fact that a move may be popular does not make it smart. This plan makes me think that the Conservatives and Harper are as fiscally conservative as Bush and the Republicans in the US and Canadians will regret buying Harper's snake oil when the surpluses are replaced with deficits.

[shoop]

Methinks you doth protest too much. After 12+ years of winning moral victories but losing elections the Conservatives have hit on a winning formula here. Besides, there is plenty of money left for tax cuts in a Harper goverment. Given that Layton won't be writing anymore budgets!

No self respecting economic conservative should support this plan - the fact that a move may be popular does not make it smart. This plan makes me think that the Conservatives and Harper are as fiscally conservative as Bush and the Republicans in the US and Canadians will regret buying Harper's snake oil when the surpluses are replaced with deficits.

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[Riverwind]

Methinks you doth protest too much. After 12+ years of winning moral victories but losing elections the Conservatives have hit on a winning formula here. Besides, there is plenty of money left for tax cuts in a Harper goverment. Given that Layton won't be writing anymore budgets!

In my opinion a budget that sacrifices income tax cuts for a GST cut _is_ an NDP budget. Admit it shoop, you would be screaming bloody murder if the Liberals came out with this plan - you only support it because it was the Conservatives idea.

[shoop]

spar, I'll give you this much. *IF* the Conservatives had come out and said "We absolutely won't cut income taxes, but we will cut the GST" then yes I would have been unhappy.

But does anybody really, really think a Conservative government won't cut income taxes???

In my opinion a budget that sacrifices income tax cuts for a GST cut _is_ an NDP budget. Admit it shoop, you would be screaming bloody murder if the Liberals came out with this plan - you only support it because it was the Conservatives idea.

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[scribblet]

Methinks you doth protest too much. After 12+ years of winning moral victories but losing elections the Conservatives have hit on a winning formula here. Besides, there is plenty of money left for tax cuts in a Harper goverment. Given that Layton won't be writing anymore budgets!

No self respecting economic conservative should support this plan - the fact that a move may be popular does not make it smart. This plan makes me think that the Conservatives and Harper are as fiscally conservative as Bush and the Republicans in the US and Canadians will regret buying Harper's snake oil when the surpluses are replaced with deficits.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harper doesn't believe in deficits, but considering that Martin managed to give away almost 3 times the surplus before the writ was dropped, Martin was heading for a deficit.

I think the GST cut is a good move, it helps the low income familes the most as they don't a lot in income tax anyway. Lowering the GST helps with heating, gasoline, phone etc. etc.

They will be releasing more of their platform as time goes on. I'm guessing we'll see an increase in basic personal exemptions, and child care credits.

[sharkman]

Have you ever seen when two competing gas stations are next to each other? There are plenty of times when one drops its price lower than the other. Even if it's only one cent, sure enough that gas station will get all the traffic until the other one drops its price too. It's human nature even though it may only save them a quarter.

This GST announcement will have the same effect on voting day. That's why Martin was so quick to denounce it. If he copied it, it would look defensive and weak, so he has to criticize it. It's the one tax he couldn't touch because if he made any promises about it, he would get nailed for the Liberals broken promise back in '93.

[normanchateau]

This GST announcement will have the same effect on voting day.  That's why Martin was so quick to denounce it.  If he copied it, it would look defensive and weak, so he has to criticize it. 

The GST was denounced by numerous economists including fiscally conservative economists like Herb Grubel of the Fraser Institute. Why do you suppose Dr. Herb Grubel (Economics PhD), the Finance critic under Preston Manning, was so quick to denounce it?

[sharkman]

Gee, maybe it's because he's loyal to Preston's approach to the Reform party and didn't like Harper. Other than that, it is common, you know, for economists to disagree on things. This is no different. It's a great idea to reduce the GST and will pay off at the polls.

[Guest eureka]

The proposal for GST cuts does reveal the entire CPC platform. Other taxes are to be cut as well down the road.

You may have missed that Harper said with it that "All taxes are bad." The party admits that its tax policies are designed to reduce federal revenues and reduce the scope of government.

It follows from that that with a CPC government there would be a reduction in all social programmes that involve the federal government; that public healthcare would be diminished; that post-secondaty education would suffer; that equalization transfers will be reduced.

The military might not be hurt since Hsrper's party thinks Canada is no more than a defensive alliance of small states.

The rich will get richer and the poor poorer until the country collapses.

[scribblet]

The proposal for GST cuts does reveal the entire CPC platform. Other taxes are to be cut as well down the road.

You may have missed that Harper said with it that "All taxes are bad." The party admits that its tax policies are designed to reduce federal revenues and reduce the scope of government.

It follows from that that with a CPC government there would be a reduction in all social programmes that involve the federal government; that public healthcare would be diminished; that post-secondaty education would suffer; that equalization transfers will be reduced.

The military might not be hurt since Hsrper's party thinks Canada is no more than a defensive alliance of small states.

The rich will get richer and the poor poorer until the country collapses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He may have said that, and who would disagree really, but we have to pay them.

Could you point to the party platform or policy statement that says it will reduce social programs, the CPC is not the Reform or Alliance, and is more old Red Tory than anything. Liberal Lite actually - minus the corruption.

[Guest eureka]

To cut revenues there have to be tradeoffs. The only tradeoffs possible are to those programmes.

The leopard has not changed its spots: merely camoflagued them.

[scribblet]

To cut revenues there have to be tradeoffs. The only tradeoffs possible are to those programmes.

The leopard has not changed its spots: merely camoflagued them.

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We have to agree to disagree on this, and spots do change, even the liberals spots, many time.

However, Paul made promises just before the writ was dropped, in fact I believe his pre election promises added up to considerably more than the surplus. I don't think he cut programs when he did this. IMHO the surplus is due to over taxation, we need to get some of it back at least.

[shoop]

Exactly! Martin's tax cut proposals amount to less than Martin's pre-election spending spree. Hello PM Harper!

We have to agree to disagree on this, and spots do change, even the liberals spots, many time. 

However, Paul made promises just before the writ was dropped, in fact I believe his pre election promises added up to considerably more than the surplus.  I don't think he cut programs when he did this.

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[Black Dog]

Exactly! Martin's tax cut proposals amount to less than Martin's pre-election spending spree. Hello PM Harper!

We have to agree to disagree on this, and spots do change, even the liberals spots, many time. 

However, Paul made promises just before the writ was dropped, in fact I believe his pre election promises added up to considerably more than the surplus.  I don't think he cut programs when he did this.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's one thing to spend when you have a surplus in revenue. It's another to permenantly cut out a source of revenue. If they want to talk tax cuts, fine, but make sure there's a fall back (like an inheritance tax).

[shoop]

Your argument applies equally as well to cutting the GST and income taxes. The Liberals and Conservatives both agree taxes should be cut, their disagreement is in which form tax cuts should take.

When is anything permanent for any government?

It's one thing to spend when you have a surplus in revenue. It's another to permenantly cut out a source of revenue. If they want to talk tax cuts, fine, but make sure there's a fall back (like an inheritance tax).

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[Black Dog]

Your argument applies equally as well to cutting the GST and income taxes. The Liberals and Conservatives both agree taxes should be cut, their disagreement is in which form tax cuts should take.

When is anything permanent for any government?

True, but I think there would be a political risk to re-instating such an unpopular tax. Consumption taxes are a lot more visible and hit average folks a lot harder than income taxes, whereas income taxes can go up or down as the economy fluctuates. Consumption taxes, IIRC, are also hurt the economy a lot more by eating up disposable income.

[shoop]

Isn't this an argument *in favour* of cutting the GST?

Consumption taxes, IIRC, are also hurt the economy a lot more by eating up disposable income.

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[Black Dog]

Isn't this an argument *in favour* of cutting the GST? 

Consumption taxes, IIRC, are also hurt the economy a lot more by eating up disposable income.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said I was against cutting the GST.

[Guest eureka]

The Conservatives favour permanently reducing government revenues and reducing the role of the federal government: reducing it to that of a caretaker, apparently.

The Liberals favour reducing taxes when taxes can be reduced without harm to the social fabric fabric of the country. They have no been faithful to that in the past but much of their straying from the path has been due to the pressure of the sductive appeal of the Conservatives to "give you back your hard-earned money."

I kinow which I consider to be a vision for Canada.

[Black Dog]

The Conservatives favour permanently reducing government revenues and reducing the role of the federal government: reducing it to that of a caretaker, apparently.

The Liberals favour reducing taxes when taxes can be reduced without harm to the social fabric fabric of the country. They have no been faithful to that in the past but much of their straying from the path has been due to the pressure of the sductive appeal of the Conservatives to "give you back your hard-earned money."

I kinow which I consider to be a vision for Canada.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spare me. The Liberals (under finance minister Martin) cut and cut and cut soem more, with little regard for the "social fabric". Then, when they needed to shore up votes, the started throwing money around. Long story short, don't make the mistake of thinking the LPC and CPC are different animals; they are cut from the same cloth.

[scribblet]

Actually, I'd like to see GST be removed from family essentials like diapers, baby forumula, etc. and also remove it from natural gas and electricity for residences. This would be easy to do.

But there may be some economic arguments against tinkering with how and where the GST is applied. The ease using the GST program is that is is almost universal in its tax base. As well, any business that uses at least basic software like Simply Accounting or Quicken can easily keep track of and remit GST.

7 million low income people file income tax forms but pay no income tax ( many file for the gst rebate, child rebate etc) therefore Paul martin's income tax cut would not help these people at all yet they like the rest of us, continue to pay the 7% gst.

So we could say that it implies that the Liberals and NDP are against tax relief for the poorest members of our society. Isn't that usually their argument?