Abortion should be banned in the United States (my first topic).

[Rebound]

16 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

bear in mind that the SCOTUS has not ruled that there could not be a fundamental right to abortion

all they have said is that you will have to follow the process and pass a constitutional amendment to do it

could be done, with a two thirds veto proof supermajority in both houses of Congress

ratified by three fourths of the state legislatures

Just remember that THREE of the Supreme Court justices who voted to overturn Roe V Wade committed perjury in order to do so. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Rebound said:

Just remember that THREE of the Supreme Court justices who voted to overturn Roe V Wade committed perjury in order to do so. 

just win, baby

[blackbird]

22 hours ago, Rebound said:

You are PICKING your PERSONAL OPINION of when life begins, and you are CHOOSING to impose it on the rest of the nation.  
 

Here’s the sickness: It takes zero effort for YOU to meet this “moral calling.” You aren’t more moral and society isn’t more moral this way. It’s you feeling good about yourself by dominating a woman’s body by your imposition of cruelty upon others. 
 

You didn’t answer the question, which is why a fertilized egg is a human being but the sperm is not.  A fertilized egg is smaller than a pin head and can be frozen indefinitely.  That doesn’t sound any more human than sperm. 
 

So as ridiculous as you think it sounds to outlaw wasting your sperm, that’s precisely how ridiculous you sound. 

No, I don't pick "personal opinions" and I don't impose anything on the rest of the nation.

I simply believe what God and Jesus Christ say in the Bible.  Jesus is God and is who we should consult.

The Bible makes it clear a human is a person from the moment of conception.  You can Google abortion and the Bible to find the parts.

I am not going to convince you of anything by this back and forth obviously.

It is up to you if you are really interested in the truth to dig into it.   Look at Jesus and his life and what he said about everything.  He is a person who has mercy, compassion, and forgiveness.  We don't deserve any of it, but there he is.  He came to earth, suffered and died for those who don't deserve anything.  He is the one we should be focused on.  Understand him and you will have the answer.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by blackbird

[Rebound]

23 hours ago, Iteration said:

I am not sure why you are responding with this. I am pro-life, and yes, I believe being pro choice is silly. Do you have an argument for the pro choice position, yes or no?

The argument is that you have an opinion. And there is nothing wrong with your opinion, except that you believe in forcing women to go through pregnancies, even if they are life-threatening, and then to take on a lifelong obligation of care for someone. It is a HUGE HUGE ask. You are forcing someone to permanently alter their entire life because of your OPINION.  
 

I don’t sleep with men. But I don’t need to pass a law to punish people who do.  I don’t eat pork. The Bible says don’t eat pork. But I don’t need to pass a law to impose that upon someone.  
 

Is it wrong to perform an abortion on a fetus the day before that baby would otherwise be born? Yes, I agree that it is. Then again, you cannot find a doctor who will perform an on-demand third trimester abortion. The procedure is sometimes carried out under very rare, life-threatening circumstances.  
 

Let me give you an example: Doctors at UCSF performed open heart surgery on a fetus in-utero.  Scans showed that the fetus had a malformed heart and they concluded that the baby would not survive the birth process.  In-utero surgery is very high risk. They tried, and were unsuccessful. They lost the baby, and then an abortion was necessary.  You want to outlaw that? 

[Rebound]

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, I don't pick "personal opinions" and I don't impose anything on the rest of the nation.

I simply believe what God and Jesus Christ say in the Bible.  Jesus is God and is who we should consult.

The Bible makes it clear a human is a person from the moment of conception.  You can Google abortion and the Bible to find the parts.

I am not going to convince you of anything by this back and forth obviously.

It is up to you if you are really interested in the truth to dig into it.   Look at Jesus and his life and what he said about everything.  He is a person who has mercy, compassion, and forgiveness.  We don't deserve any of it, but there he is.  He came to earth, suffered and died for those who don't deserve anything.  He is the one we should be focused on.  Understand him and you will have the answer.

 

“I simply believe…” is the same as “My opinion is…”

 

NOBODY BUT NOBODY is trying to pass a law from keeping you from living your life. If you don’t want to have an abortion, nobody is suggesting you have to have one. If your opinion, or belief, is that masturbation is murder… I SWEAR to you, dude, the Democrats will not make you spank the monkey. Live YOUR LIFE according to YOUR BELIEFS, but STOP FORCING EVERYBODY ELSE TO LIVE TO YOUR RELIGIOUS VALUES. We’re ok; we don’t need your religion forced upon us.  Go live your life, and I’ll go live mine. 
 

If you want to say that a single-called embryo is scientifically “life,” then the viable human cells you excrete into the toilet every day are also “life.” Yes, by definition, a single cell is life.  But that doesn’t mean you’re committing murder if you scratch someone and remove a few thousand skin cells.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Rebound

[thoughtcritically]

Hey Rebound, you're assertion that 3 Supreme Court Justices committed perjury is incorrect.  Did Conservative Justices Lie About Roe v. Wade? | Snopes.com

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

“I simply believe…” is the same as “My opinion is…”

 

NOBODY BUT NOBODY is trying to pass a law from keeping you from living your life. If you don’t want to have an abortion, nobody is suggesting you have to have one. If your opinion, or belief, is that masturbation is murder… I SWEAR to you, dude, the Democrats will not make you spank the monkey. Live YOUR LIFE according to YOUR BELIEFS, but STOP FORCING EVERYBODY ELSE TO LIVE TO YOUR RELIGIOUS VALUES. We’re ok; we don’t need your religion forced upon us.  Go live your life, and I’ll go live mine. 
 

If you want to say that a single-called embryo is scientifically “life,” then the viable human cells you excrete into the toilet every day are also “life.” Yes, by definition, a single cell is life.  But that doesn’t mean you’re committing murder if you scratch someone and remove a few thousand skin cells.

You are imagining things again; I am not "forcing" anyone to live my religious values.   You express your opinions or beliefs on things.  Am I not allowed to express my opinions and beliefs?  Seems you want a double standard.  One for me and a different one for you.

Nobody said skin cells are a human.  Again you are deviating off.  The Bible forbids killing people or humans and that includes unborn babies.  Nothing to do with individual cells.  Since Jesus inspired men to write the Bible, we ought to listen to Jesus and understand where he is coming from and who he is.

[Aristides]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are imagining things again; I am not "forcing" anyone to live my religious values.   You express your opinions or beliefs on things.  Am I not allowed to express my opinions and beliefs?  Seems you want a double standard.  One for me and a different one for you.

 

So you are pro choice.

[Rebound]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

No, I don't pick "personal opinions" and I don't impose anything on the rest of the nation.

I simply believe what God and Jesus Christ say in the Bible.  Jesus is God and is who we should consult.

The Bible makes it clear a human is a person from the moment of conception.  You can Google abortion and the Bible to find the parts.

I am not going to convince you of anything by this back and forth obviously.

It is up to you if you are really interested in the truth to dig into it.   Look at Jesus and his life and what he said about everything.  He is a person who has mercy, compassion, and forgiveness.  We don't deserve any of it, but there he is.  He came to earth, suffered and died for those who don't deserve anything.  He is the one we should be focused on.  Understand him and you will have the answer.

 

Nonsense. 
Jesus never mentioned abortion and told you to welcome immigrants, feed the poor, clothe them… If Jesus were here today people like you would reject him and crucify him.  
 

You pick and you choose. And you choose what is easy and convenient for you personally. 
 

The morality of abortion:

ZERO EFFORT, ZERO IMPACT TO YOU

EXTREME IMPACT TO OTHERS. 
 

Tell us: What do you do to show your devotion to God which is difficult for you personally? 
 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Rebound

[robosmith]

45 minutes ago, thoughtcritically said:

Hey Rebound, you're assertion that 3 Supreme Court Justices committed perjury is incorrect.  Did Conservative Justices Lie About Roe v. Wade? | Snopes.com

Firstly, the subject was 3 recent appointments, NOT the 5 you cited.

Secondly, it is true that the 3 recent Justices ONLY used weasel words to SUGGEST they would accept the precedent while NOT 100% committing to that decision.

And NOT cited was Justices' private discussion with Senator Susan Collins during which Collins has stated that Kavanagh and Gorsuch did promise not to overturn.

Collins and Manchin suggest they were misled by Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on Roe

[Aristides]

14 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Firstly, the subject was 3 recent appointments, NOT the 5 you cited.

Secondly, it is true that the 3 recent Justices ONLY used weasel words to SUGGEST they would accept the precedent while NOT 100% committing to that decision.

And NOT cited was Justices' private discussion with Senator Susan Collins during which Collins has stated that Kavanagh and Gorsuch did promise not to overturn.

Collins and Manchin suggest they were misled by Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on Roe

Just the kind of people you want on the country's highest court.

[thoughtcritically]

38 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Firstly, the subject was 3 recent appointments, NOT the 5 you cited.

Secondly, it is true that the 3 recent Justices ONLY used weasel words to SUGGEST they would accept the precedent while NOT 100% committing to that decision.

And NOT cited was Justices' private discussion with Senator Susan Collins during which Collins has stated that Kavanagh and Gorsuch did promise not to overturn.

Collins and Manchin suggest they were misled by Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on Roe

Ok, Firstly - Read.  The 3 recent appointments are part of the 5 justices mentioned in the Snopes article.  Which debunks your claim.  

Secondly - There was never a mention in what you said or the article you presented where verbiage was quoted that could be construed as a lie.  They were asked whether Roe was precedent, which it was, but even laws that have become precedent can be overturned - see Plessy V Ferguson.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Roe was bad case law:
Ruth Bader Ginsburg wasn't a fan of Roe v. Wade reasoning - The Washington Post

Joe Biden said Roe was bad case law in 1982:
“I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body,” Biden said during the interview.
Biden supported states overturning Roe v. Wade in 1982 | verifythis.com
 

[robosmith]

19 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

Ok, Firstly - Read.  The 3 recent appointments are part of the 5 justices mentioned in the Snopes article.  Which debunks your claim.  

Hardly. Including 2 more Justices is a red herring. AKA, YOU introduced them when they were never part of the claim.

19 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

Secondly - There was never a mention in what you said or the article you presented where verbiage was quoted that could be construed as a lie.  They were asked whether Roe was precedent, which it was, but even laws that have become precedent can be overturned - see Plessy V Ferguson.

And they used weasel words to suggest they would NOT overturn it.

19 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Roe was bad case law:
Ruth Bader Ginsburg wasn't a fan of Roe v. Wade reasoning - The Washington Post

So what? RBG would have NEVER voted to overturn it.

19 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

Joe Biden said Roe was bad case law in 1982:
“I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body,” Biden said during the interview.
Biden supported states overturning Roe v. Wade in 1982 | verifythis.com
 

Joe has obviously changed his mind.

[thoughtcritically]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

Hardly. Including 2 more Justices is a red herring. AKA, YOU introduced them when they were never part of the claim.

And they used weasel words to suggest they would NOT overturn it.

So what? RBG would have NEVER voted to overturn it.

Joe has obviously changed his mind.

That's not what a red herring is.  I quoted an article that debunked your claim about the three justices in question and that article happened to include 2 more justices, I don't write for Snopes and cannot narrow the scope of their reports for you. 

Weasel words?  They did not suggest they would not overturn it - They agreed that it was precedent - which is exactly true - it was precedent, but even case law that is established as precedent can be overturned if it was wrongly or poorly decided.  Plessy V Ferguson is a good example of this.

RBG - She maintained precedent of a decision she knew to be faulty - meaning she knew it was wrong and upheld it anyway.

When Obama ran for president he ran with the campaign promise of codifying abortion access and he didn't.  If you want to get mad, get mad at him, but don't get mad at a supreme court that looked at bad case law (to quote RBG) and tossed it out.

[robosmith]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:34 AM, thoughtcritically said:

Hey Rebound, you're assertion that 3 Supreme Court Justices committed perjury is incorrect.  Did Conservative Justices Lie About Roe v. Wade? | Snopes.com

 

On 10/10/2022 at 12:27 PM, robosmith said:

Firstly, the subject was 3 recent appointments, NOT the 5 you cited.

Secondly, it is true that the 3 recent Justices ONLY used weasel words to SUGGEST they would accept the precedent while NOT 100% committing to that decision.

And NOT cited was Justices' private discussion with Senator Susan Collins during which Collins has stated that Kavanagh and Gorsuch did promise not to overturn.

Collins and Manchin suggest they were misled by Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on Roe

 

On 10/11/2022 at 1:24 PM, thoughtcritically said:

That's not what a red herring is.  I quoted an article that debunked your claim about the three justices in question and that article happened to include 2 more justices, I don't write for Snopes and cannot narrow the scope of their reports for you. 

Weasel words?  They did not suggest they would not overturn it - They agreed that it was precedent - which is exactly true - it was precedent, but even case law that is established as precedent can be overturned if it was wrongly or poorly decided.  Plessy V Ferguson is a good example of this.

RBG - She maintained precedent of a decision she knew to be faulty - meaning she knew it was wrong and upheld it anyway.

When Obama ran for president he ran with the campaign promise of codifying abortion access and he didn't.  If you want to get mad, get mad at him, but don't get mad at a supreme court that looked at bad case law (to quote RBG) and tossed it out.

You keep saying "your claim" but you were NOT responding to MY claim.

I explained how YOUR response to Rebound's claim is wrong.

Introducing additional Justices to rebut the claim is a red herring when they were NEVER part of the original claim.

I agreed that it was NOT perjury before Congress, because they ONLY used weasel words INSTEAD of a firm commitment in their TESTIMONY before Congress. What I said is that Senators said they made commitments not to overturn in PRIVATE.

RBG never said the legal decision was faulty; she said it was a mistake because it was too large a step and stopped what should have been a gradual process. Very different from your claim.

You got ANY quote of RBG saying "bad case law"? Google can't find it.

 

. 

 

 

 

[thoughtcritically]

53 minutes ago, robosmith said:

 

 

You keep saying "your claim" but you were NOT responding to MY claim.

I explained how YOUR response to Rebound's claim is wrong.

Introducing additional Justices to rebut the claim is a red herring when they were NEVER part of the original claim.

I agreed that it was NOT perjury before Congress, because they ONLY used weasel words INSTEAD of a firm commitment in their TESTIMONY before Congress. What I said is that Senators said they made commitments not to overturn in PRIVATE.

RBG never said the legal decision was faulty; she said it was a mistake because it was too large a step and stopped what should have been a gradual process. Very different from your claim.

You got ANY quote of RBG saying "bad case law"? Google can't find it.

 

. 

 

 

 

I didn't introduce the additional justices, the article did, but the point is moot.

RBG did not specifically use those words in that order, my apologies for using inferences.  Her dissatisfaction with the way in which it was formed is well documented.  Hence, the conclusion and statements made by many others that Roe v Wade was "bad law" or poorly formed.  
References:
Why Ruth Bader Ginsburg Wasn’t All That Fond of Roe v. Wade - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Roe v. Wade Is a Bad Decision That Ought to Stand - Bloomberg

 

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

I didn't introduce the additional justices, the article did, but the point is moot.

You introduced the article HERE as part of YOUR argument.

2 hours ago, thoughtcritically said:

RBG did not specifically use those words in that order, my apologies for using inferences.  Her dissatisfaction with the way in which it was formed is well documented.  Hence, the conclusion and statements made by many others that Roe v Wade was "bad law" or poorly formed.  

She thought it was procedural mistake and it could have been accomplished more effectively.