Halton School trans teacher showing titties to its students like it's breakfast in the morning

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Based on the last few reports, it's an unavoidable conclusion that this whole stunt was a prank or troll.

Anyone who reacted to it was the target.

You sure would think the school board would have done something about such a ridiculous prank in an actual classroom with actual kids.

I wonder why they didn't.

[Michael Hardner]

43 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I wonder why they didn't.

It's a minefield to be tiptoed through with opponents of every political stripe waiting to cut down anyone who makes it through.

The Woke, the Anti-Woke, the Politicians, The Bureaucrats, The Parents.  

They played it well for their purposes IMO.  The problem went away.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's a minefield to be tiptoed through with opponents of every political stripe waiting to cut down anyone who makes it through.

The Woke, the Anti-Woke, the Politicians, The Bureaucrats, The Parents.  

They played it well for their purposes IMO.  The problem went away.

I disagree.  They played it abysmally.  As I said on the other site, if she'd showed up for class with a swastika on her shirt over those tits, they would have had her out of there before recess.

Or he'd him.  Whatever.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I disagree.  They played it abysmally.  As I said on the other site, if she'd showed up for class with a swastika on her shirt over those tits, they would have had her out of there before recess.

 

 

They played it perfectly for THEIR purposes I said.  They did nothing but wait and eventually the situation turned.  The troll was outed and life went on.  

Yeah, of course they could fire a teacher for wearing a swastika.  You are coming across like an armchair quarterback when you say things like that.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

You sure would think the school board would have done something about such a ridiculous prank in an actual classroom with actual kids.

I wonder why they didn't.

The kids were probably in on it!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They played it perfectly for THEIR purposes I said.  They did nothing but wait and eventually the situation turned.  The troll was outed and life went on.  

Yeah, of course they could fire a teacher for wearing a swastika.  You are coming across like an armchair quarterback when you say things like that.

I wondered if you would think I was comparing the breasts to a swastika.  I was going to edit it to say that obviously I was using the example to illustrate that they had the will if they wanted it, but I was afraid you would answer before I finished my edit and it would just sow confusion.

To be clear then, I was not comparing the two.  I was using the example to illustrate their cowardice. 

Had a male teacher simply showed up in a skirt and requested his students start calling him "miss", I would consider that pretty bad behaviour, but I would understand a school administration's reluctance to act less than gingerly.

What actually happened should have had the teacher removed from the classroom immediately, and it is down to the cowardice showed by the school officials that he was not.  She, whatever.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The kids were probably in on it!

That actually wouldn't surprise me. 

Edit>  Actually, the fact that they managed to keep quiet about indicates that can't be the case

Edited March 3, 2023 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. that they had the will if they wanted it 

2. To be clear then, I was not comparing the two.  I was using the example to illustrate their cowardice. 

3. Had a male teacher simply showed up in a skirt and requested his students start calling him "miss", I would consider that pretty bad behaviour, but I would understand a school administration's reluctance to act less than gingerly.

4. What actually happened should have had the teacher removed from the classroom immediately, and it is down to the cowardice showed by the school officials that he was not.  She, whatever.

1. There is "will" involved but every bureaucrat craves a piece of paper to support their actions.  That way they don't get in trouble see ?  They don't just decide what to do every day.  So I'm pretty sure there's a Human Rights Code they could use to squash any teacher who pulled that pretty easily.

2. Why exactly do you expect them to put their necks out for this ?  Risk getting fired because a troll started trolling ?  What if they made a mistake ?  It's not realistic.

3. ?  Less then gingerly ?  What ?  The situation you describe would probably not even make the news, much less result in action.

4.  Again, you expect bureaucrats to leap over the rules and take a chance that this person is lying, that the human rights codes won't come down on them forever...

I'm just describing a strategy here based on best interests, nothing to do with right or wrong.  It's a simpler discussion if you assume that.

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That actually wouldn't surprise me. 

Edit>  Actually, the fact that they managed to keep quiet about indicates that can't be the case

True enough but the school board probably couldn't take the chance that they were in on it. I'll bet someone(s) on the board was in on it.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. There is "will" involved but every bureaucrat craves a piece of paper to support their actions.  That way they don't get in trouble see ?  They don't just decide what to do every day.  So I'm pretty sure there's a Human Rights Code they could use to squash any teacher who pulled that pretty easily.

2. Why exactly do you expect them to put their necks out for this ?  Risk getting fired because a troll started trolling ?  What if they made a mistake ?  It's not realistic.

3. ?  Less then gingerly ?  What ?  The situation you describe would probably not even make the news, much less result in action.

4.  Again, you expect bureaucrats to leap over the rules and take a chance that this person is lying, that the human rights codes won't come down on them forever...

I'm just describing a strategy here based on best interests, nothing to do with right or wrong.  It's a simpler discussion if you assume that.

1, 2, 4, 5: I believe it's wrong to show up for work in a classroom of children dressed like that.  That's basic as far as I'm concerned.

How far back do you think we would have to go before we get to a time where he would have been removed from the classroom immediately, and fired, without any piece of paper in sight?  I would be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that neither his union nor the HRC would have taken up his case.

It's cowardice, and an abrogation of their responsibility towards their charges.

As for # 3, I think that to do that without informing your employer in order to give them a chance to prepare their students would be incredibly self centered and irresponsible. But it might not make the news, no.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

1. I believe it's wrong to show up for work in a classroom of children dressed like that.  That's basic as far as I'm concerned.

2. How far back do you think we would have to go before we get to a time where he would have been removed from the classroom immediately, and fired, without any piece of paper in sight?  

3. It's cowardice, and an abrogation of their responsibility towards their charges.

4. As for # 3, I think that to do that without informing your employer in order to give them a chance to prepare their students would be incredibly self centered and irresponsible. But it might not make the news, no.

 

1. Ok.  If YOU were in the position of deciding what to do and there were NO written policies or laws to consider then we now know what would have happened.
2. May 16, 2017
3. You have no way of knowing that it was cowardice.  The bureaucrat's job doesn't usually entail bravery.
4. I'm pretty sure it happens all the time.  Policies around these things are still being developed...

[Guest]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok.  If YOU were in the position of deciding what to do and there were NO written policies or laws to consider then we now know what would have happened.
2. May 16, 2017
3. You have no way of knowing that it was cowardice.  The bureaucrat's job doesn't usually entail bravery.
4. I'm pretty sure it happens all the time.  Policies around these things are still being developed...

1) Yes, I think it's safe to assume that.

2) I was going to say "Later than I would have thought" but then I had this nagging doubt about your motives, so I clicked on the link.  I should have known you were being disingenouous.

3) Of course I don't know it was cowardice.  Occam's Razor.

4) I'm pretty sure it doesn't.  I imagine anyone with a genuine desire to change their gender would provide some notice to their employer, especially if their work involved children.

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1) I was going to say "Later than I would have thought" but then I had this nagging doubt about your motives, so I clicked on the link.  I should have known you were being disingenouous.

2) I'm pretty sure it doesn't.  I imagine anyone with a genuine desire to change their gender would provide some notice to their employer, especially if their work involved children.

1) How so ?
2) I agree.

[Michael Hardner]

This kind of thing comes up all the time and it seems to me that people assume that bureaucrats not only have more latitude than they do, but also that they would act in a way that aligns with their views.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) How so ?
 

Because I don't think this example would be protected under the headings of gender expression or gender identity.  Not even remotely.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Because I don't think this example would be protected under the headings of gender expression or gender identity.  Not even remotely.

You don't *think* - exactly.  Would you bet your entire living on it ?

I'll bet not.   Again - assuming that the board functionary even agreed with the assessment.  

[Guest]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

You don't *think* - exactly.  Would you bet your entire living on it ?

I'll bet not.   Again - assuming that the board functionary even agreed with the assessment.  

Serious answer.  Given what I have seen of the boobs in question, and given my first responsibility is to the children, yes I would.

That said, your questions implies that I am right.  Cowardice was the major factor. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

1.  Given what I have seen of the boobs in question, and given my first responsibility is to the children, yes I would.

2. That said, your questions implies that I am right.  Cowardice was the major factor. 

1.  Ok, fair answer.  They didn't.
2.  Only if someone agreed with you.  Personally I think it's asking too much to expect someone to do that.  If they're wrong their career is ruined and good luck finding another job in education administration.

[Guest]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Ok, fair answer.  They didn't.
2.  Only if someone agreed with you.  Personally I think it's asking too much to expect someone to do that.  If they're wrong their career is ruined and good luck finding another job in education administration.

2) I disagree with you that it's asking too much in this case.  I am confident that common sense would have prevailed.

That said, how far do you go if that wasn't the case?  At what point do you put a career on the line for what is right?  Remembering this isn't a corporate situation where all are adults.  This directly affects children.

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1) I disagree with you that it's asking too much in this case. 

2) I am confident that common sense would have prevailed.

3) At what point do you put a career on the line for what is right?  Remembering this isn't a corporate situation where all are adults.  This directly affects children.

 

1) ok.

2) what would have changed?  The case wasn't really moving forward 

3) there are far worse things happening in the system that don't involve sensationalism and cross dressing trolls 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) ok.

2) what would have changed?  The case wasn't really moving forward 

3) there are far worse things happening in the system that don't involve sensationalism and cross dressing trolls 

2) My opinion is that the case should have been sorted the first morning.

3) Sure, but without meaning to be flippant, so what?  I could never understand the attitude that says something is not worth dealing with because there exists something that is worth dealing with a bit more.  Or a lot more.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1) My opinion is that the case should have been sorted the first morning.

2) Sure, but without meaning to be flippant, so what?  I could never understand the attitude that says something is not worth dealing with because there exists something that is worth dealing with a bit more.  Or a lot more.

1) I guess I didn't understand what you meant by common sense would have prevailed.  I thought you meant eventually in the current reality.

2) well it means we're not prioritizing

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) I guess I didn't understand what you meant by common sense would have prevailed.  I thought you meant eventually in the current reality.

2) well it means we're not prioritizing

 

Prioritizing is only important when people are confronted with more than one situation.  In this case they had the one.  Their decision to act would not have had an impact on a more serious case somewhere else.

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Prioritizing is only important when people are confronted with more than one situation.  In this case they had the one.  Their decision to act would not have had an impact on a more serious case somewhere else.

I would ask "What are the education issues the public is talking about?"   What do they know of the problems and how can we use this to move towards solutions.

The idea is that there's a limited amount of bandwidth for discussion for a public sphere.

 

[Michael Hardner]

Aaaand.... looks like I was wrong... they actually did something.  

The teacher was finally sent home - so there's your brave gesture @bcsapper  I'm impressed.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/03/oakville-school-teacher-controversy/