NDP Election Date Proposal

[August1991]

NDP Leader Jack Layton described his move as a compromise solution: it could force an early election without triggering a campaign over Christmas.

"This avoids the holiday election that nobody wants," Layton said from Vancouver.

....

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper responded positively and said all opposition parties are now working together to topple the Liberals.

"I think it's an innovative proposal," Harper told reporters in Toronto. "I think we're moving rapidly toward a three-party consensus to wrap up this Parliament."

Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe called mid-February an ideal election date, and said the Liberals would need to heed the will of the Commons.

But the Liberals appeared set to shrug off the motion.

"It's more games and parlour tricks, the stuff that Canadians hate most about politics," said a senior government official.

"They expect to be taken seriously by voting confidence in the government with the (Dec. 8 spending) estimates and then asking us to call an election on their schedule?"

At least one constitutional expert says the government has no obligation to obey the motion.

"The government might well say, 'This can't be a no-confidence vote because you still want us to govern (for more than a month),' " said Ned Franks, a professor emeritus at Queen's University.

"You're into open-ended politics."

National Post

[i heard Gérald Beaudoin argue similarly to Franks.]

IMV, Layton's proposal is very good. And by making the proposal, Layton is showing to everyone that he's a "player".

Finally, the Liberal response just shows their arrogance. The last time the Liberals were arrogant like this - in 1957 and in 1984 - was just before they were soundly defeated.

[Riverwind]

At least one constitutional expert says the government has no obligation to obey the motion.

Actually, a CPC/BQ/NDP coalition could defeat the gov't on a confidence vote and then ask the governor general for the opportunity to form an interim gov't until January. It would be highly unusual, however, the GG would be obligated to let them attempt to form a gov't.

In short, if the Liberals have no choice but to agree to the timing.

[August1991]

At least one constitutional expert says the government has no obligation to obey the motion.

Actually, a CPC/BQ/NDP coalition could defeat the gov't on a confidence vote and then ask the governor general for the opportunity to form an interim gov't until January. It would be highly unusual, however, the GG would be obligated to let them attempt to form a gov't.

In short, if the Liberals have no choice but to agree to the timing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are a variety of ways to implement Layton's proposal but ultimately, it seems to me that Parliament has the authority to decide how to do this. The three oposition parties have a majority.

It is symbolic and significant that the Liberals (and specifically Martin) have lost control of the agenda.

I am intrigued by Layton's choice of mid-February for an election date but a January date, prior to the release of Gomery Part II, would not be right, I guess.

[Riverwind]

I am intrigued by Layton's choice of mid-February for an election date but a January date, prior to the release of Gomery Part II, would not be right, I guess.

Smart politics. Waiting till after the final report would just give the Liberals an opportunity to run around the country spending money like there is no tomorrow (not to mention appointing as many cronies as possible to gov't positions and postings).

There is no need to to wait for Gomery II - it just has recommendations which will need to be implemented by next gov't anyways. The Liberals got a fair review of the facts - the public now needs to make up its mind.

[Shakeyhands]

I would have thought it was showboating and nothing else, afterall, we were promised a general election within 30 days of the final release of Gomery, it fits the same timeframe.

I will say though I agree with August that it is symbolic, having others set the agenda does not either look good or feel good.

[shoop]

Anybody got a link as to when Layton's proposed date would fall vis-a-vis Gomery's final report.

IF Gomery's final report would come out during the campaign, given the election date Layton has proposed, than it is a brilliant move. (It kinds hurts to give him that much credit, so let's confirm that date.)

[Leafless]

The NDP's motion is talk about nothing--So what if Mr. Layton is going to present a motion to "ASK" Martin and the Liberals to step down and does NOT have the clout of a non-confidence motion.

This is nothing more than NDP political obfuscation in which it seems are still Liberal friendly and have no real desire to see the Liberals fall

Iam sure Paul Martin's shaking in his boots over this one.

And what revalence does Part-2 of Judge Gomery's report have to do with anything and will only include recommedations that the Liberals or for that matter any government does not have to abide by.

[plusgood]

I'm in favour of this proposal I think it's smart planning. Generally the NDP have been working the political scene quite well. I had a question, is it looking like we will see the report and then have an election 2 or 3 days afterwards? That could make the whole campaign irrelevent up until that point, and of course, destroy the Liberals. Interesting times a head I guess.

[sharkman]

Jack layton's motion came after Harper called his bluff about a non-confidence vote. After all that talk the last week about bringing down the Liberals if they don't sign on to his idea of blocking private health care in Canada, Jack responds with a watered down motion that if passed will not be binding on the Liberals and he knows it. They can ignore it like they ignored motion after motion last summer.

[CoachCartman]

Shakeyhands, Martin promised to call an election 30 days after the Gomery report......so add another 30 days atleast for campaigning....that would put us in to the beginning of April at the earliest.

[kimmy]

I think the timing of the final part of the Gomery report is completely irrelevant. The whole rationale for waiting for the Gomery report (and calling an election 30 days later) was that Canadians wanted the facts to make an informed decision about accountability for the scam. We now have Gomery's examination of those facts. The remaining portion of the report deals with recommendations to help prevent future abuses, and is not relevant to Paul Martin's promise to call an election once Canadians had the facts about the scandal.

We now have the facts, Paul Martin should honor the spirit of his promise. Instead of scrambling about for means of extending his reign by a few more weeks and trying to avoid having the opposition parties bring down the government, he should be proactive. He could look like a real leader if he simply announced an election date, one chosen so that the campaigning will begin right after the holiday season. That would help him avoid this appearance of desperation, of being a lame-duck PM, and might even earn him some respect from the electorate for being decisive and for doing the right thing. Of course, this is Paul Martin we're talking about, so I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

-k

[shoop]

Gotta disagree kimmy.

Having the final report released during the election guarantees at least two full days of coverage on Gomery. Two days of questions for the Liberals and reasons for the opposition parties to call them corrupt. Two days is a lot of time in a 28 day campaign.

I think the timing of the final part of the Gomery report is completely irrelevant. The whole rationale for waiting for the Gomery report (and calling an election 30 days later) was that Canadians wanted the facts to make an informed decision about accountability for the scam. We now have Gomery's examination of those facts.  The remaining portion of the report deals with recommendations to help prevent future abuses, and is not relevant to Paul Martin's promise to call an election once Canadians had the facts about the scandal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sharkman]

Martin's main goal is to stay in power as long as he can and however he can. Therefore he will keep on with the political games, trying to play one side against the other and make whoever ends up forcing an election look like the bad guy.

In yesterday's noon news, their was a report of a kid being shot at on Ontario high school. Wouldn't you know it Martin's ready with another press conference that gets played right after it. He unveiled another gun bill because 'gangs are taking our kids and guns are taking their lives'. All just an attempt to make some hay with the voters out of a poor kid who got shot. More proof that the gun registry is a waste of money.

[plusgood]

Each time Gomery related news has flared up in the media the Liberals have taken a small dive in the polls, only to rebound a week or so later. Having that report come out in the middle of a campaign has to be desasterous for the Liberals. It will bolster the criticisms of coruption from Harper, Layton, and Duceppe, and it will serve as an aid to these candidates as they use the report to remind voters that their attacks are based on clear facts rather than patisan lines.

[Riverwind]

Having that report come out in the middle of a campaign has to be desasterous for the Liberals.

It is unreasonable to wait for April for an election and it is equally unreasonable to time the election so that report comes out in the middle of the campaign. If Layton's plan calls for the report to be released in the middle of the election then it would be perfectly reasonable for Martin to ask Gomery to delay the report till after the election.

[Yodeler]

Martin's main goal is to stay in power as long as he can and however he can.  Therefore he will keep on with the political games, trying to play one side against the other and make whoever ends up forcing an election look like the bad guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In his NP article today Don Martin is, as usual, absolutely right when he says:

"Layton could've and should've terminated this government officially on Nov. 24 with a strong three-party push for a campaign extension to accommodate a two-week holiday hiatus.

If Martin then ignored the majority will of the House and imposed a late December vote, the Christmas election would've been his call, not theirs."

[I Miss Trudeau]

Layton could've and should've terminated this government officially on Nov. 24 with a strong three-party push for a campaign extension to accommodate a two-week holiday hiatus.

If Martin then ignored the majority will of the House and imposed a late December vote, the Christmas election would've been his call, not theirs."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harper could do the same on November 15th, but then he couldn't blame someone else if it failed or backfired.

[sharkman]

Harper could do the same on November 15th, but then he couldn't blame someone else if it failed or backfired.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right, he can't because he needs Jack's votes. And Jack has shown himself to be condemning the Liberals on one hand and signing deals with them on the other. Harper can't trust Layton to vote for bringing down the Liberals unless the NDP have their name on the motion for a vote of non-confidence too.

So Harper called Jack's bluff when Jack was all hot and bothered about bringing down the Liberals last week. And this week Jack comes up with this nonbinding motion that will not force the Liberals to do anything. Almost makes you wonder if Jack is in Martin's pocket or something.

[plusgood]

Having that report come out in the middle of a campaign has to be desasterous for the Liberals.

It is unreasonable to wait for April for an election and it is equally unreasonable to time the election so that report comes out in the middle of the campaign. If Layton's plan calls for the report to be released in the middle of the election then it would be perfectly reasonable for Martin to ask Gomery to delay the report till after the election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Martin asked Gomery to delay the final report due to the election that would be major ammo against him. Would the public view the delay of the report as reasonable? I think probably not.

[shoop]

Absolutely right plusgood! Sparhawk's interpretation would only stick with those Liberal voters who would NEVER change their vote. Enough for a Harper majority. Why, don't you guys do it...

If Martin asked Gomery to delay the final report due to the election that would be major ammo against him.  Would the public view the delay of the report as reasonable? I think probably not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Riverwind]

If Martin asked Gomery to delay the final report due to the election that would be major ammo against him.  Would the public view the delay of the report as reasonable? I think probably not.

The second report is irrelevant the first report is the one that the public needed to have. It is pretty opportunism on the part of the opposition parties to insist that the report be released during an election campaign. In fact, it sounds like the CPC and NDP are just aching to had Quebec over to the BQ in order to satisfy their own lust for power.

[August1991]

There seems confusion about all this and I suspect that the confusion is partly generated by the Liberal Party in an effort to imply that Layton's proposal is somehow amateurish. Some points:

If Harper were to present a non-confidence motion next week, an election date could come as early as 27 Dec. If Duceppe or Layton were to present a non-confidence motion on their dates in subsequent weeks, the election date could be as early as 2 Jan. This assumes that Martin does not extend the election date beyond the minimum 36 days. While Martin has apparently the power to extend this date, it is not clear when or how he could use it. I don't know how he could be forced to use it.

According to Yodeler above, this is what Newman wrote in his NP column today:

"Layton could've and should've terminated this government officially on Nov. 24 with a strong three-party push for a campaign extension to accommodate a two-week holiday hiatus.

If Martin then ignored the majority will of the House and imposed a late December vote, the Christmas election would've been his call, not theirs."

Following Newman's idea, the election date could be put off until mid-January and this may have been Layton's original idea - who knows. Since Gomery Part II is to appear on 1 Feb, it seems reasonable to allow Canadians to see it before voting. An election a week or so before 1 Feb would look suspect. Hence, the mid-February date (likely Monday 13 February). This is equivalent to a non-confidence motion being introduced in the first week of January - and I think this fact will provide a guarantee that the Liberals cannot avoid. (Is there an opposition day in that week?)

Incidentally, it is not obvious whether Gomery Part II will favour or hurt the Liberals. The topic alone could hurt them but since the report concerns changes, it's not an indictment.

Martin himself only promised to call an election within 30 days of Gomery's final report. That would mean an election in mid-April at the latest.

----

The three opposition leaders are to meet this week and see how to implement Layton's proposal.

I happen to think Layton's proposal is sensible and fair. It avoids an election at Christmastime and gives Canadians time to form an opinion about Gomery. True, the Liberals get to govern longer than they should without facing the electorate but the holiday season and Gomery cause this situation.

I also think that a large majority of Canadians will agree that the opposition leaders are being reasonable about this.

----

Lastly, Clark's government fell on 11 December 1979 and the election was held on 18 February 1980. At the time however, the elections act required a minimum 47 day wait between the writ and election day - now the minimum wait is only 36 days.

[shoop]

Layton's proposal is BRILLIANT.

Strange thing though. While increasing the NDs seat count, this move will probably end up putting Stephen Harper in the PMO.

Will it be considered a pyrrhic victory for Layton?

----

The three opposition leaders are to meet this week and see how to implement Layton's proposal.

I happen to think Layton's proposal is sensible and fair.  It avoids an election at Christmastime and gives Canadians time to form an opinion about Gomery.  True, the Liberals get to govern longer than they should without facing the electorate but the holiday season and Gomery cause this situation.

I also think that a large majority of Canadians will agree that the opposition leaders are being reasonable about this.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>