Jump to content

From a scientific perspective, can one be resurrected from the dead?


Jeshan

Recommended Posts

Maybe we just misunderstood Jesus, and what he died for. Some say he died for our sins. I get that it’s symbolic, if you need a place to forgive and give up your guilt, there is a way. 

Its like, when Stan was paying the bill on everyone’s credit card. Stan had the mastercard with no limit. No... limit.  An he paid for everyone else’s debts. He knew it was his end, but that didnt matter anymore. For what was his message then, other than, screw the banks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/18/2021 at 5:37 PM, Jeshan said:

Can quantum physics prove the resurrection of Christ? Relativity, quantum physics, etc? 

If it can, post the peer reviewed paper, or at least an article about it.  

I guess we know who will win the Nobel Prize in several categories now….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/19/2021 at 6:33 PM, OftenWrong said:

Maybe we just misunderstood Jesus, and what he died for. Some say he died for our sins. I get that it’s symbolic, if you need a place to forgive and give up your guilt, there is a way. 

Its like, when Stan was paying the bill on everyone’s credit card. Stan had the mastercard with no limit. No... limit.  An he paid for everyone else’s debts. He knew it was his end, but that didnt matter anymore. For what was his message then, other than, screw the banks?

No, I dont refer to the religious aspect of the resurrection. I mean in terms like, if Jesus came back from the dead, as indeed did Lazarus, how was it done? If we view the human body as a complex energy symposium, then resurrection means the ability for energy forms to go on co existing as a system repeatedly without being subject to decay. Yet decay is a proven fact, irreversible. Does ressurection mean then an exalted form of growth? Wherin the growth of new cells overtakes the rate of decay? Or does life in a human body mean something deeper?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/21/2021 at 10:37 PM, TreeBeard said:

If it can, post the peer reviewed paper, or at least an article about it.  

I guess we know who will win the Nobel Prize in several categories now….

I'd certainly love to live forever :D would be fun. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/26/2021 at 9:13 PM, TreeBeard said:

Hmmm….  An answer to a question I didn’t ask.

Do you have those links to anything scientific that would prove that resurrection is possible?

The accounts in the Bible such as the resurrection of Christ were supernatural events.  With God nothing is impossible.  That is why trying to debate it from a scientific angle is foolishness.  Nobody is suggesting it was a natural event in accordance with the physical or scientific laws of nature.  The evidence that the resurrection took place is supported by  eye witnesses as recorded in the New Testament and the gospels.  It is one of the key teachings that authenticate the whole Bible and is necessary to believe in order to receive eternal life according to the teaching of the Bible.  The Bible says faith is given to people as a gift from God.  Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.  Therefore if you want eternal life, start reading the King James Bible, particularly the New Testament because that gets right to this subject and the point.

Edited by blackbird
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The evidence that the resurrection took place is supported by  eye witnesses as recorded in the New Testament and the gospels. 

How long after the resurrection was the New Testament written?

Did the eyewitnesses write the accounts in the bible, or is it that the bible passages mention there were eye witnesses?

Edited by TreeBeard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

How long after the resurrection was the New Testament written?

Did the eyewitnesses write the accounts in the bible, or is it that the bible passages mention there were eye witnesses?

Those questions are answered at this website.  

Is there evidence Jesus rose from the dead?

Yes, there were many recorded witnesses of Jesus Christ’s resurrection. You can read them in this article.

Quote  Was Jesus actually resurrected? Many critics today find it hard to believe Jesus’ resurrection ever occurred. The apostle Paul had to quash rumors in the Corinthian congregation that Jesus Christ had never been resurrected at all, so in 1 Corinthians 15:5-8 he named eyewitnesses who had been with the resurrected Christ.

People were questioning one of the fundamentals of Christianity—that we have a resurrected Lord. Can we prove to ourselves from the Bible that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead and lives today? (Along with this article, be sure to read the accompanying article “Resurrection of Jesus: Can We Prove It?”)

The records we will be examining are available worldwide. The events described had such an impact on some of Christ’s former enemies and disciples that they gave their lives believing in Him as their resurrected Savior. Consider the following evidence confirming Jesus’ resurrection:

Numerous reliable texts: There are many documents, manuscripts and fragments of the Bible, Old and New Testament, in addition to secular sources that speak of Christ’s resurrection. This contrasts with relatively few documents about some historical figures such as Julius Caesar. God has ensured that the historical record of Christ’s resurrection would be preserved accurately for us.

Dates of the biblical records: Biblical commentators believe the synoptic Gospels—Matthew, Mark and Luke—were written 20 to 30 years after Jesus’ resurrection. John’s account was penned between 50 and 70 years after the events. Paul’s first letter to the congregation in Corinth can be dated to around 25 years after Jesus’ resurrection. The dates of these records are consistent with being able to speak authoritatively on Christ’s resurrection.

Many witnesses: In the Gospels, Acts and Paul’s letters, it is evident that many people were alive who could have disputed the facts provided by the New Testament writers if the details were wrong. Instead, there is agreement and consistency in what we are told. Former persecutors and detractors like Paul (previously Saul) did not dispute the records. Christians were willing to live under the constant threat of death—which would have been unthinkable unless they were convinced that Jesus was not a charlatan. We also have the promise that the Holy Spirit would guide the authors to remember events accurately (John 14:26; 16:13).  Unquote

Jesus’ Resurrection: Eyewitness Accounts (lifehopeandtruth.com)

I could search and read various other websites with similar information.  This site has much more information that what I quoted.  Give it a try.  Notice the dates that the New Testament books were written.  Three gospels written 20 to 30 years after the resurrection.  John's gospel 50 to 70 years after and Paul's first letter to the Corinthians about 25 years after.  This is undoubtedly the most important subject you will face in life.  So it would be wise to give it the most serious examination, particularly in the New Testament, King James Bible.

Edited by blackbird
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/18/2021 at 5:37 PM, Jeshan said:

Can quantum physics prove the resurrection of Christ? Relativity, quantum physics, etc? 

Mirriam Webster

Essential Meaning of science

1knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation.

 The bible tells there are two parts to man.

Genesis 2:7  Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Jesus died on the cross, and was resurrected 3 days later.  He however told the thief he was crucified with that accepted Jesus as his redeemer in Luke 23:42-43   Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

When Jesus and the thief died on yhe cross, their  bodies died, and their spirits returned to God.

This is a familiar theme in what is referred to as near death experiences.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/

Near-death experiences (NDEs) are reported by about 17% of those who nearly die.  NDEs have been reported by children, adults, scientists, physicians, priests, ministers, among the religious and atheists, and from countries throughout the world.

While no two NDEs are the same, there are characteristic features that are commonly observed in NDEs. These characteristics include a perception of seeing and hearing apart from the physical body, passing into or through a tunnel, encountering a mystical light, intense and generally positive emotions, a review of part or all of their prior life experiences, encountering deceased loved ones, and a choice to return to their earthly life.

The NDERF survey also asks, “If your highest level of consciousness and alertness during the experience was different from your normal everyday consciousness and alertness, please explain.” In response to this question, NDErs commonly reported that consciousness during their experiences was “clear”, “more aware”, and often associated with heightened awareness.

Near-death experiences often occur in association with cardiac arrest.5 Prior studies found that 10–20 seconds following cardiac arrest, electroencephalogram measurements generally find no significant measureable brain cortical electrical activity. A prolonged, detailed, lucid experience following cardiac arrest should not be possible, yet this is reported in many NDEs. This is especially notable given the prolonged period of amnesia that typically precedes and follows recovery from cardiac arrest.

Science has no answer to these events, because the spirit can not be observed or experimented on, but the Bible does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Dowell said:

Science has no answer to these events, because the spirit can not be observed or experimented on, but the Bible does.

Because science can’t answer something, does that justify saying that god is the reason?

where does the bible say that NDEs are some sort of message from the Christian God?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Because science can’t answer something, does that justify saying that god is the reason?

where does the bible say that NDEs are some sort of message from the Christian God?

 

The bible doesn’t say that NDEs, are a message from a christian God, neither does the study that I referenced. I posted a link to the study, in case you wished to take the time to read it, which I am guessing you didn’t. The study states that there seems to be no signifigant difference between the experiences of dhristians, and non christians. Cross-cultural study of near-death experiences

Portions of the NDERF website, including the questionnaire, have been translated into 23 different languages. Over 500 near-death experiences in non- English languages have been shared with NDERF over the years. Dozens of volunteers have translated the non- English NDEs into English. Both the non-English and English translated versions of the NDEs are posted on the NDERF website. Over 60,000 people currently visit the NDERF website each month. Many website visitors are bilingual and this help assure that the NDEs are accurately translated.

My investigation of NDEs from around the world that have been translated into English shows that their content is strikingly similar.  If near-death experiences were considerably influenced by pre-existing religious and cultural beliefs, it would be expected that there would be significant differences in the content of NDEs from different cultures around the world. However, in my review of over 500 NDEs from dozens of countries around the world I found impressive similarities in the content of these NDEs.

I investigated 19 non-Western NDEs, where a “non- Western country” was defined as areas of the world that are predominantly not of Jewish or Christian heritage. These 19 non-Western NDEs were compared to a group of NDEs shared in English from Western countries that were predominantly English speaking. This investigation concluded:

“All near-death experience elements appearing in Western NDEs are present in non-Western NDEs. There are many non-Western NDEs with narratives that are strikingly similar to the narratives of typical Western NDEs. At a minimum, it may be concluded that non- Western NDEs are much more similar to Western NDEs than dissimilar.” 

Science is too limited in it’s scope to explain the resurrection from the dead, but NDEs are incredibly consistent with the word of God told to us thousands of years ago through the Jewish prophets, and does explain the resurrection from the dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/14/2021 at 8:50 PM, Dowell said:

Science is too limited in it’s scope to explain the resurrection from the dead, but NDEs are incredibly consistent with the word of God told to us thousands of years ago through the Jewish prophets, and does explain the resurrection from the dead.

Could NDEs simply be a brain starved of oxygen?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Could NDEs simply be a brain starved of oxygen?  

 

On 10/14/2021 at 8:56 AM, Dowell said:

Near-death experiences often occur in association with cardiac arrest. Prior studies found that 10–20 seconds following cardiac arrest, electroencephalogram measurements generally find no significant measureable brain cortical electrical activity. A prolonged, detailed, lucid experience following cardiac arrest should not be possible, yet this is reported in many NDEs. This is especially notable given the prolonged period of amnesia that typically precedes and follows recovery from cardiac arrest.

They occurred when there was no brain activity. They were not a function of the brain.

 

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why would a god wait until someone’s brain is dying from a lack of O2 to give them some sort of spiritual experience?

 

On 10/14/2021 at 8:56 AM, Dowell said:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

These events occurred when the body was clinically dead, and the spirit was returning to God

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Dowell said:

 

They occurred when there was no brain activity. They were not a function of the brain.

 

 

These events occurred when the body was clinically dead, and the spirit was returning to God

So because science can’t explain it, therefore God?

Haven’t we done this in the past with the bible being used to explain things like diseases (possession, etc) until we learned about Germ Theory?

Couldn’t these NDEs have occurred when there was some brain activity?  How would one know in a cardiac victim that they didn’t occur just before the brain activity stopped?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Couldn’t these NDEs have occurred when there was some brain activity?  How would one know in a cardiac victim that they didn’t occur just before the brain activity stopped?

 About 45% of near-death experiencers report OBEs which involves them seeing and often hearing ongoing earthly events from a perspective that is apart, and usually above, their physical bodies. Following cardiac arrest, NDErs may see, and later accurately describe, their own resuscitation. If they see and accurately describe their resuscitation t was after the brain stopped functioning. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Dowell said:

 About 45% of near-death experiencers report OBEs which involves them seeing and often hearing ongoing earthly events from a perspective that is apart, and usually above, their physical bodies. Following cardiac arrest, NDErs may see, and later accurately describe, their own resuscitation. If they see and accurately describe their resuscitation t was after the brain stopped functioning. 

Could it be possible that they only think they saw themselves being resuscitated?  
 

What evidence is there that it is anything other than a dream-like state?  
 

It should be obvious… but biblical scripture is not evidence. Nor are people’s stories about what they think they saw. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Could it be possible that they only think they saw themselves being resuscitated?  
 

What evidence is there that it is anything other than a dream-like state?  
 

It should be obvious… but biblical scripture is not evidence. Nor are people’s stories about what they think they saw. 

It seems that you are desperately trying to explain away what you don't want to believe. The study was not a religious one, it was a medical one. Why not read it before you try to poke holes in it?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Dowell said:

It seems that you are desperately trying to explain away what you don't want to believe. The study was not a religious one, it was a medical one. Why not read it before you try to poke holes in it?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/ 

Why would you think that I don’t think NDEs are real?  Clearly people are having experiences.

How do we tell what the explanation is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Why would you think that I don’t think NDEs are real?  Clearly people are having experiences.

How do we tell what the explanation is?

We know that NDEs are not a function of the brain, because they happen when the brain stops functioning. The spirit living after the body dies and returning to the God who created it fits like a glove. It explains seeing events events after the brain ceased functioning. It explains seeing from an out of body perspective. It explains going through a tunnel towards a light. Being given a choice of returning to the body, or not explains resuscitation with vivid accurate memories, and a brain that is healthy despite being oxygen deprived for an extended period of time. You may not believe what the bible says about the spirit living after the body dies, and returning to God, but show me where NDEs differ from that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Dowell said:

We know that NDEs are not a function of the brain

The paper you posted said they’re unexplained by science.  It didn’t say that they are definitively not a function of the brain.   So where do you get this notion that they cannot be a function of the brain?

 

13 hours ago, Dowell said:

You may not believe what the bible says about the spirit living after the body dies, and returning to God

Is it possible that I do believe this, but that I don’t see much evidence for NDEs being some sort of message from God?

Why would God give someone an NDE only to send them back to their body to keep living?  

Edited by TreeBeard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...