Trudeau is going to lose.

[myata]

5 hours ago, ironstone said:

I often have this discussion with one of my coworkers . He says all politicians and political parties are the same. I believe that while all politicians will screw us over, some will screw us more than others. I vote for for the candidate/party that will not screw over the country as much as the others. Not by any stretch of the imagination is the Conservative Party ideal but I know they are by far the lesser of the two evils as opposed to having(God forbid!) an NDP government.

Pick the best of the worst.

No, it's just the math. In the first-by-the-post system if there's one party juggernaut and everybody else is split and divided it wins forever. So the only way to change it is to create another one. One or the other, in most ridings if you wouldn't vote for one of them, the vote is lost.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

And this is one example, there are more as I understand...

You didn't comment on the other story.  So, yes, there may be smoke only - not fire - but not the same as calling a witch hunt here.  Sorry.

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Well he did make disparaging Tweets towards the religion

2. https://ipolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/savage-from_Alaindeng88-Twitter-Search.pdf

3. You call something an obvious witch hunt without looking at the evidence, makes me wonder if you are really trying here.

it is an obvious witch hunt

that tweet is grasping at straws

not proof of anything

you accepting the media interpretation of that tweet

without actually seeing any evidence that this interpretation is correct

makes me wonder if you are really trying here

 

[Yzermandius19]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You didn't comment on the other story.  So, yes, there may be smoke only - not fire - but not the same as calling a witch hunt here.  Sorry.

the other story claims some people who are candidates for the party

were part of groups they claim are white supremacist

without any proof that either those people or groups are white supremacist

you just take the media's word for it

every time

 

media claims group is racist

MH believes them

without verifying

media claims people are part of that group

MH believes those people are racist

without verifying

because he bought into the first claim

without verifying

these are the ridiculous assumptions one can be lead to

when giving the media the benefit of the doubt on claims of racism

 

also being able to point out an allegation of racism that isn't false

isn't proof that there aren't a ton of allegations of racism that are false

if you can't see the false allegations

it's you are too busy believing all the allegations

without looking into it at all

or you have the same ridiculous definition of racism

that the media has

and see it under every rock, especially under the rocks of those you disagree with

just as they do

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. it is an obvious witch hunt

2. that tweet is grasping at straws

3. you accepting the media interpretation of that tweet

4. without actually seeing any evidence that this interpretation is correct

 

 

1. No, this is reasonable evidence of an unfit candidate
2. He called Islam a savage religion.  Insulting Canadian Muslims and ignoring our precepts of religious tolerance makes him unfit.
3. I didn't read any media interpretation.  He says 'savage religion'
4. What more evidence is needed ?

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No, this is reasonable evidence of an unfit candidate
2. He called Islam a savage religion.  Insulting Canadian Muslims and ignoring our precepts of religious tolerance makes him unfit.
3. I didn't read any media interpretation.  He says 'savage religion'
4. What more evidence is needed ?

extremist Islam is a savage religion

hence why he singled out the extremists

in that tweet

/shrugs

 

plenty more evidence is needed

to prove he is talking about all Canadian Muslim's

as you claim

that is a silly assumption

he never said that in his tweet

you have a history of taking any criticism of Muslim's

to be hatred of Muslim's

you have even accused me of it

your opinion of what constitutes hating Muslims

is way off the mark, yet again

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. without any proof that either those people or groups are white supremacist; you just take the media's word for it

every time

2. without verifying

3. when giving the media the benefit of the doubt on claims of racism

1. So, the media's job is to tell us things: https://www.google.com/search?q="shaun+walker"+ppc&oq="shaun+walker"+ppc&aqs=chrome..69i57.3314j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  
Shaun Walker is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(United_States)

2. I put it to you to comment, and you said it's a "witch hunt" without explaining why.  You just said the media lies.  So I took additional steps and - yes it's true.  Maybe the PPC is doing better this time around as they're under the spotlight.

3. Yes I did give them the benefit of the doubt.  And I gave you the same, but not any more - for you that is.  They had a neo-Nazi sign their papers, so your claims of a witch hunt are without basis, sorry.  They are at the very least incompetent, and deserve to be scrutinized.  Clown car.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. So, the media's job is to tell us things: https://www.google.com/search?q="shaun+walker"+ppc&oq="shaun+walker"+ppc&aqs=chrome..69i57.3314j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  
Shaun Walker is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(United_States)

2. I put it to you to comment, and you said it's a "witch hunt" without explaining why.  You just said the media lies.  So I took additional steps and - yes it's true.  Maybe the PPC is doing better this time around as they're under the spotlight.

3. Yes I did give them the benefit of the doubt.  And I gave you the same, but not any more - for you that is.  They had a neo-Nazi sign their papers, so your claims of a witch hunt are without basis, sorry.  They are at the very least incompetent, and deserve to be scrutinized.  Clown car.

you have no proof a neo-Nazi did so

the media just claimed a guy who signed it was a Neo-Nazi

and provided no proof of that

and you bought into it anyway

 

the reason you can't see the media witch hunt

is because you see witches everywhere

just like they do

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. extremist Islam is a savage religion

2. plenty more evidence is needed

3. you have a history of taking any criticism of Muslim'sto be hatred of Muslim's

4. your opinion of what constitutes hating Muslims is way off the mark, yet again

1.  His tweet was a slam against Islam.  If your defense is that he can't speak English properly then I guess maybe they shouldn't hire immigrants for candidates ?  I dunno.
2. No - they are campaigning to form government, we don't need to cut them a break.
3. I don't think there's much point in a political party speaking against Muslims.  Criticism of Islam is fine, but I look for editorialists, academics and such to add to the public discussion.
4. I didn't say he hates Muslims, just that his comments are anti-Islam.  

Anyway, your accusation of 'witch hunt' are off the table at this point.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. you have no proof a neo-Nazi did so, the media just claimed a guy who signed it was a Neo-Nazi, and provided no proof of that and you bought into it anyway

2.the reason you can't see the media witch hunt is because you see witches everywhere

just like they do

1. So are they lying ?  Mistaken ? Johanne Mennie made this statement:
https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/news/niagara-region/2019/08/30/former-ppc-staffer-linked-to-neo-nazis-called-for-white-revolution.html  Is there some question of mistaken identity ?

2. You see witch hunters everywhere.

Let's recap:  A guy called Islam savage and was a candidate.  A neo-Nazi was fired from the party.

Those are first two cases we looked into.  You don't think questioning them is legitimate, in fact you go to the length to call it a "witch hunt".

At this point, I expect there are more cases as well but since you don't even accept these cases and blame the media for lying, I don't think we have the building blocks for a reasonable discussion.  Also you don't trust that I can be objective on the topic, so we should just agree that I'm delusional here and move on.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  His tweet was a slam against Islam.  If your defense is that he can't speak English properly then I guess maybe they shouldn't hire immigrants for candidates ?  I dunno.
2. No - they are campaigning to form government, we don't need to cut them a break.
3. I don't think there's much point in a political party speaking against Muslims.  Criticism of Islam is fine, but I look for editorialists, academics and such to add to the public discussion.
4. I didn't say he hates Muslims, just that his comments are anti-Islam.  

Anyway, your accusation of 'witch hunt' are off the table at this point.

he didn't speak against Muslim's he spoke out against Muslim extremists and criticized the religion, which you say is fine, except apparently if a PPC candidate does it, or I do it, or many others on this forum do it

it's a witch hunt, not off the table at all

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. So are they lying ?  Mistaken ? Johanne Mennie made this statement:
https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/news/niagara-region/2019/08/30/former-ppc-staffer-linked-to-neo-nazis-called-for-white-revolution.html  Is there some question of mistaken identity ?

2. You see witch hunters everywhere.

Let's recap:  A guy called Islam savage and was a candidate.  A neo-Nazi was fired from the party.

Those are first two cases we looked into.  You don't think questioning them is legitimate, in fact you go to the length to call it a "witch hunt".

At this point, I expect there are more cases as well but since you don't even accept these cases and blame the media for lying, I don't think we have the building blocks for a reasonable discussion.  Also you don't trust that I can be objective on the topic, so we should just agree that I'm delusional here and move on.

both cases are bad examples

you just take the media's word that they aren't

the other parties are far more racist than the PPC

the media just has a hard-on for the PPC

the media is grasping at straws

and you say that is enough

 

the witch hunters are everywhere in the media

that's why I see them everywhere in the media

there aren't witches everywhere though

and you still see them everywhere

especially in the PPC

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

the other parties are filled with those who openly push racism

those who openly support racist policies

and those who vote for racist policies

racism that the PPC vocally denounces

and policies that PPC openly denounces

policies the PPC would vote against

and they are the only party doing so

but the PPC are the racists, claims the media?

 

the media are straight up Orwellian

they are The Ministry of Truth

Canada is filled with woke doublespeak

and the populace gobbles up the propaganda

because the media is simply telling them what they want to hear

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

The only other racist offender left is Justin Trudeau himself.

And he was forgiven somehow.  I don't understand why.

[Yzermandius19]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The only other racist offender left is Justin Trudeau himself.

And he was forgiven somehow.  I don't understand why.

because he pushes the woke dogma

the woke dogma is racist

and all the parties are woke

except the PPC

hence why they are the ones labelled as racists

and not the others

 

the anti-racist are the racists

the media are anti-racist woke scolds

they project their own racism on their political opposition

who openly oppose their racism

that's the way she goes

 

this is a witch hunt carried out by the witches

against the non-witches, who are being called witches, by the actual witches

that's how far into crazy town we are now

though many remain oblivious

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 all the parties are wokee except the PPC hence why they are the ones labelled as racists

You don't think it's because one of the party organizers was a known neo-nazi? Just asking.

 

[Yzermandius19]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You don't think it's because one of the party organizers was a known neo-nazi? Just asking.

no

it's because they aren't woke and oppose the woke

so the woke say they are racists

just like they do to everyone else who isn't woke and opposes the woke

it's not like the PPC are the only ones who aren't woke, who are treated by the media like this

I've seen this movie before, thousands of times

racist has simply become a label with the necessary baggage attached

to discredit and deter opposition to the woke agenda

by pretending that everyone who opposes them is that racist boogeyman

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

Here's more on the witch hunt.

 

Bernier followed the guy on Twitter and he was convicted of crimes in instigating racial violence.

 

Here's a quote from Mr. Walker

 

"Adolf Hitler is without doubt the greatest leader and philosopher of the 1900s."

https://www.canadaland.com/maxime-bernier-should-have-known-a-neo-nazi-was-working-for-his-party/

 

DAMN WITCH HUNT ?

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 no it's because they aren't woke and oppose the woke

 

Well that's weird then.

 

Because with the Nazi they hired, there's a much better case to be made using that evidence I think.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well that's weird then.

 

Because with the Nazi they hired, there's a much better case to be made using that evidence I think.

well you think wrong

the evidence does not point to any widespread racism in the PPC

you got one guy

the other parties it's every candidate running

tons of evidence exists of widespread racism in every other party

but you are tunnel visioning on the PPC, because you're a partisan hack

you don't like their politics, so you grasp at straws to discredit them

just like woke media

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

 

1. the evidence does not point to any widespread racism in the PPC

2. meanwhile tons of evidence exists of widespread racism in every other party

3. but you are tunnel visioning on the PPC

1. The bar seems to move.  People call Trudeau a Marxist but he doesn't seem to have Marxist executives.

2. Hyperbole

3. Only because they're hilarious, and their followers are in denial.

 

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The bar seems to move.  People call Trudeau a Marxist but he doesn't seem to have Marxist executives.

2. Hyperbole

3. Only because they're hilarious, and their followers are in denial.

Trudeau is woke

the connections between marxists and the woke are well established

woke is oppressor vs oppressed along racial, sex and gender lines

marxism is oppressor vs oppressed along class lines

the same logic underpins both ideologies

it's glaringly obvious, not subtle at all

 

woke is repackaged communism

and some of the most influential woke thought leaders

openly admit this and think that's a good thing

because the problem with communism they say

is it's focus on the economy rather the culture

hence the term, cultural marxism

the whole "real communism has never been tried" excuse for the failure of the ideology

if we just apply it to culture this time, then the utopia will be achieved

stop being obtuse

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[myata]

The system as it is it a caricature, travesty of a modern democracy. We don't have local representatives because they are employees of some office, even some act says so. Who is their loyalty to, not in the picture book but in reality? And we cannot have proportional system where every vote counts (Mr. Trudeau was elected with a majority mandate on that promise and look what happened). As heard on "Cross country checkup" today, the host to a caller, so you are going to vote for .... even though you think they wouldn't win, good for you, what a statement.

Seriously, that's what the elections come down to here, an appearance, symbolic statement? OK but thanks to that makes you think, but what isn't though? Checks and balances, independent oversight just hasn't been there by design. But do we have an independent judiciary, with party nominated judges attending party fundrising events? What about independent justice office, on the third year of SNC-Lavalin still tightlipped, in just another decade? As the saying goes, blessed those who don't think or know just don't dig it never know what would come out.

Edited September 12, 2021 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. Trudeau is woke

2. the connections between marxists and the woke are well established

3. the same logic underpins both ideologies

4. stop being obtuse

1. Hence the blackface.  So do you forgive him for that or ?
2. Ha ha.  No, Slavoj Zizek asked Jordan Peterson point-blank to name the Marxists he was referring to when he said post-modern Neo-Marxists and he didn't name any.  So it's basically a nickname.  Real Marxists don't seem to be more work than average people, from what I can tell.  Also real Marxists tend to be older, and the young Marxists are just woke in their DNA so they don't seem to care much.
3. That's really a tenuous comparison.  Nothing in Marxism talks about identity politics, it's about class politics.  Wokeism rejects focus on class because it takes away from racism.  A black Billionaire can't be a victim.
4. You make shit up that I, and many others don't buy into.  It's not being obtuse it's that I don't buy into your crackpot theories or your Nazi-loving PPC party.  OOPS WITCH HUNT ?

 

[Yzermandius19]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Hence the blackface.  So do you forgive him for that or ?
2. Ha ha.  No, Slavoj Zizek asked Jordan Peterson point-blank to name the Marxists he was referring to when he said post-modern Neo-Marxists and he didn't name any.  So it's basically a nickname.  Real Marxists don't seem to be more work than average people, from what I can tell.  Also real Marxists tend to be older, and the young Marxists are just woke in their DNA so they don't seem to care much.
3. That's really a tenuous comparison.  Nothing in Marxism talks about identity politics, it's about class politics.  Wokeism rejects focus on class because it takes away from racism.  A black Billionaire can't be a victim.
4. You make shit up that I, and many others don't buy into.  It's not being obtuse it's that I don't buy into your crackpot theories or your Nazi-loving PPC party.  OOPS WITCH HUNT ?
 

1) I don't find blackface to be a big deal, that's the woke

it's a clear example of Trudeau's hypocrisy, and how he's pandering to the woke and pushing their agenda, more than actually being a true believer

but a politician being hypocritical, that's run of the mill, to be expected

Trudeau has committed far greater crimes, including when it comes to racial issues

the blackface thing is jingly keys, a pointless distraction

2) Herbert Marcuse and Antonio Gramsci

they specifically point out the ideological pivot from economy to culture

there are many more who epitomize what the pivot entails

including Jacques Derrida and Michel Foucault

just because Peterson didn't think of their names off the top of his head in a debate a couple of years ago

doesn't mean they don't exist and honestly Slavoj knows all about them

he was being obtuse af with that gotcha tactic

it's not just a nickname, it's an accurate description of the ideology

the woke are a particular brand of cultural marxists, who focus on racial, sex and gender elements of culture, but the cultural marxist ideology is foundational to woke logic

3) It's not tenuous, it's a foundational belief, switching from class politics to identity politics doesn't change the underlying logic or assumptions of the ideology in question

it's a superficial change at most, a simple repacking of an already prevalent ideology, a minor re-branding

Edited September 12, 2021 by Yzermandius19