Class war disappeared from public debates, replaced by intersectional BS, I am worried.

[QuebecOverCanada]

During this pandemic, the super wealthy enriched themselves extremely quickly, while the downtrodden made little to no gains due to inflation. This is coming in a delicate and dangerous era when a seemingly weak and proven to be an unhealthy Democratic President is elected in the midst of quasi war with China, tensions have mounted since his short tenure as president in the Middle East and a major chip shortage which could shape America's level of sovereignty -and dignity- in the XXIth century, is far from being won in the American perspective. This comes at a time where a divorce in the upper class warrants you being the richest female the world has ever seen. Jeff Bezo's ex, who contributed to nothing except maybe cooking an omelette when Jeff was tired, made a fortune doing approximately nothing. This comes when Jeff Bezos has a net worth of $150B, and still manages to pay his employees $15/h, and they don't get toilet breaks. Jeff Bezo's employees, while they are working very hard and putting in the effort to make the biggest delivery corporation in recorded history, are pissing in bottles and rely on food stamps for living. Food stamps to subsizide the sh*t wages Bezos is offering. Meanwhile, Democrats and GOP Congress cut down the $2000 stimulus for every american to a short $1400.

The upper class is making a lot of money on the back of their workers, who in turn get close to jacksh*t. Wages are extremely low, competition is very high; an immigrant will replace you for a bowl of rice, if not, they will robotize your position. Corporate establishments are buying houses by the hundreds of thousands to control the Housing sector, increasing prices of said houses.

And what do we hear in the public discourse?

RACISM. SEXISM. TRANS RIGHTS.

What do you think will happen in a society that completely ignores its own internal problems? What do you think happens when the populace becomes more and more hungry and the upper class lazier and lazier, and worse; making their money in immoral or unjust ways?

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

And what do we hear in the public discourse?

RACISM. SEXISM. TRANS RIGHTS.

 

Why are you "worried" ?   Civil rights were very much part of the public discourse in the American 20th century as well.   

 

Quote

What do you think will happen in a society that completely ignores its own internal problems? What do you think happens when the populace becomes more and more hungry and the upper class lazier and lazier, and worse; making their money in immoral or unjust ways?

 

Nothing will happen that hasn't happened before.   Maybe it will help rising obesity rates.

[Army Guy]

This is happening all across the country, by most major companies, The Irving's have mills piled with finished lumber, mountains of it, they limit what goes out to artificially keep prices high... anyone buy a stick of lumber lately, the price is up well over 300 %, i purchased the other day a 2x10x10 foot long, each cost 45 dollars. another reason new housing prices are on the rise up atleast 3-40 % in one year...and it does not stop there high prices for fuel is reasonable for everything else going up... everyone is gouging everyone, not sure if it is strictly business or just greedy Canadians..   

[QuebecOverCanada]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Why are you "worried" ?   Civil rights were very much part of the public discourse in the American 20th century as well.   

Because of the sharp rise in inequality, especially in this pandemic. There should be increased focus on wealth disparity from the media and civil rights organizations right now. The rich have made exponential gains while the have nots have not.

[bush_cheney2004]

41 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Because of the sharp rise in inequality, especially in this pandemic. There should be increased focus on wealth disparity from the media and civil rights organizations right now. The rich have made exponential gains while the have nots have not.

 

Income inequality is not a new issue or made more important than before just because of the pandemic's fallout.   For instance, the Occupy movement swept the U.S. and other nations after the Great Recession and eventually faded from public discourse...no pandemic needed.

Social, political, and economic conflicts are mainstays in the U.S. narrative going back many generations...there is nothing special about today's version(s).

For the U.S. (if that is your seeming focus), all income quintiles benefited from the booming economy before COVID, with the upper incomes doing far better.   Still, there are not enough uber rich (e.g. Top 1%) to transfer wealth from to fix all of societies alleged deficits...that's just more of the class struggle that will always be.   The alternative could be far worse.

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Income inequality is not a new issue or made more important than before just because of the pandemic's fallout.  

In its current proportions, income inequality is the widest we have seen in the West, it is way worse than before the pandemic. Plus, the rich gets to travel and being above restrictions compared to the poor, and may avoid rules imposed to everyone. Inequality is also increasing with inflated prices for housing and inflation in general. How come have you completely ignored the effects of the pandemic in your previous answer^

By the way, yes, public discourse shifted from class war before; Nazis came to prominence because of the Class war that was, ultimately, ignored by German higher society to the point where literal Commies and Nazis were fighting to death in the streets for a decade because the Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives loved their privilege. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

In its current proportions, income inequality is the widest we have seen in the West, it is way worse than before the pandemic. Plus, the rich gets to travel and being above restrictions compared to the poor, and may avoid rules imposed to everyone. Inequality is also increasing with inflated prices for housing and inflation in general. How come have you completely ignored the effects of the pandemic in your previous answer^

 

I have not ignored the impact of the pandemic, but it should be understood in the context of many other previous economic calamities in the U.S. and in other countries over the past 100 years.  The poor have always been impacted more by such events...why would it be any different now ?  

Social, political, and labour strife have often occurred concurrently in the U.S., and they are easily within America's ability to engage regardless of a pandemic, so much so they are easily imported into Canada and other nations, including protests, symbols, media coverage, etc.

Housing inflation is a much bigger factor in Canada than in the United States, and this was true before the pandemic.

[QuebecOverCanada]

47 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I have not ignored the impact of the pandemic, but it should be understood in the context of many other previous economic calamities in the U.S. and in other countries over the past 100 years.  The poor have always been impacted more by such events...why would it be any different now ?  

Social, political, and labour strife have often occurred concurrently in the U.S., and they are easily within America's ability to engage regardless of a pandemic, so much so they are easily imported into Canada and other nations, including protests, symbols, media coverage, etc.

Housing inflation is a much bigger factor in Canada than in the United States, and this was true before the pandemic.

In the past 100 years, there had been catastrophes and such bad events. And pretending we have no bigger problem but that a Ted was not called Sarah as she would like to be named while putting all other problems such as class warfare under the rug will create social issues we're not prepared for.

[bush_cheney2004]

33 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

In the past 100 years, there had been catastrophes and such bad events. And pretending we have no bigger problem but that a Ted was not called Sarah as she would like to be named while putting all other problems such as class warfare under the rug will create social issues we're not prepared for.

 

It doesn't matter...we were also not prepared for a global pandemic.   Such issues existed before and will exist afterwards.   The U.S. had more dire circumstance in the 1930's, 1970's ("Misery Index"), and in 2008....all while engaging social issues as the same time with protests and riots.

Economic and social issues are very much related to each other and cannot be so easily separated or diminished.    Example:   the unmarked graves of 215 First Nations children at Kamloops have come back to haunt Canada today in a very high profile way, and is more media newsworthy than the rising cost of softwood lumber.

Edited June 21, 2021 by bush_cheney2004

[OftenWrong]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:31 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

During this pandemic, the super wealthy enriched themselves extremely quickly, while the downtrodden made little to no gains due to inflation. This is coming in a delicate and dangerous era

Yes they sure did. Never let a crisis go to waste, is the attitude.

I do see a problem when the most wealthy in world are benefiting from a worldwide crisis (pandemic), making the most money they've ever made, in that they will use their influence to prolong that situation as long as possible. I have no doubt the pandemic and threat of covid-19 have been greatly exaggerated to benefit those who want this situation to continue.

It is not over yet.

[QuebecOverCanada]

51 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It doesn't matter...we were also not prepared for a global pandemic.   Such issues existed before and will exist afterwards.   The U.S. had more dire circumstance in the 1930's, 1970's ("Misery Index"), and in 2008....all while engaging social issues as the same time with protests and riots.

Is that supposed to be your rational way of admitting we're in deep sh*t?  Because those eras, the 1930s, 70s, the big Lehman Brothers crash of 2008, were some of the worse eras we've had. Saying we've been through worse isn't good, it's really concerning to think we're going through another losing pattern for maybe the next decade. Because a crisis doesn't hit right away, you're older than I am, you know that for a fact that when a crisis happens, it is 2 or 3 years later that everyone feels it. The poor and the middle class being the most hit.

[QuebecOverCanada]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes they sure did. Never let a crisis go to waste, is the attitude.

I do see a problem when the most wealthy in world are benefiting from a worldwide crisis (pandemic), making the most money they've ever made, in that they will use their influence to prolong that situation as long as possible. I have no doubt the pandemic and threat of covid-19 have been greatly exaggerated to benefit those who want this situation to continue.

It is not over yet.

It is just the beginning of an era of instability and catch up. Many people did not graduate from their classes. Many research papers are on halt. Public debt is mounting, money printing has skyrocketed. Many careers were broken and businesses that were deemed profitable are now under the threat of excessive health regulations. Those two years were bad for children in classes who could not interact normally for two years. 

Meanwhile, the rich enriched themselves. And they made more than if it were a normal period.

This is going to be a perfect cocktail for social explosion in a shorter span than we would like to admit to ourselves. When the government is going to stop pouring money in, dogs will be hungry.

Edited June 21, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Is that supposed to be your rational way of admitting we're in deep sh*t?  Because those eras, the 1930s, 70s, the big Lehman Brothers crash of 2008, were some of the worse eras we've had. Saying we've been through worse isn't good, it's really concerning to think we're going through another losing pattern for maybe the next decade. Because a crisis doesn't hit right away, you're older than I am, you know that for a fact that when a crisis happens, it is 2 or 3 years later that everyone feels it. The poor and the middle class being the most hit.

 

The "deep sh*t" is not any deeper or more concerning than before, and is in many ways less "deeper".  Your perceptions are your own, and do not necessarily translate to any more concern than before.  So yes, there will be another economic and social cycle just like before, and then there will be another and another down the road.   This is the reality then, now, and into the future.

There is strength and perseverance to be found in knowing and understanding the past to see how groups and nations survived and even thrived.   What is it that you expect to be done ? 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The "deep sh*t" is not any deeper or more concerning than before, and is in many ways less "deeper".  Your perceptions are your own, and do not necessarily translate to any more concern than before.  So yes, there will be another economic and social cycle just like before, and then there will be another and another down the road.   This is the reality then, now, and into the future.

There is strength and perseverance to be found in knowing and understanding the past to see how groups and nations survived and even thrived.   What is it that you expect to be done ? 

 

It's a good pep talk to have to lift your mind up while persevering through the harsh reality of what is going on, but it does not give a solution to our social problem. You think the solution to a negative cycle we're going through is just individual, caricaturally speaking looking like this *'TOUGHEN UP BOI' WE BEEN THROUGH WORSE *Spits in bucket in Texan**...

... but the cause is clearly social in its nature. 

It's not the individuals who are at fault here in the Poor/Middle class backgrounds. It's the big banks, corporations and Wall Street who account for most of the events you talked about. 

Making it about people having to toughen up is just blinding yourself to find a solution. It works I'm sure to relieve the pain for a brief instant. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

It's not the individuals who are at fault here in the Poor/Middle class backgrounds. It's the big banks, corporations and Wall Street who account for most of the events you talked about. 

Making it about people having to toughen up is just blinding yourself to find a solution. It works I'm sure to relieve the pain for a brief instant. 

 

People still have opportunities to succeed...and fail.  It has always been thus, and will not be changing anytime soon by a magic "solution".   Economics does not care.   

Worrying about what is happening in another nation (USA) over your own speaks volumes about the power you have already given up.   I and many others refuse to do that...refuse to play the victim.

Nobody is going to give you a "solution"...so you have to make your own.

 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

People still have opportunities to succeed...and fail.  It has always been thus, and will not be changing anytime soon by a magic "solution".   Economics does not care.   

Worrying about what is happening in another nation (USA) over your own speaks volumes about the power you have already given up.   I and many others refuse to do that...refuse to play the victim.

Nobody is going to give you a "solution"...so you have to make your own.

 

 

Funny you're on a Canadian forum.

Still, apart from the 'tough luck, loser', do you have any other tip for the working class?

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Funny you're on a Canadian forum.

Still, apart from the 'tough luck, loser', do you have any other tip for the working class?

 

Yes...a Canadian forum with some members who are obsessed with a foreign country (USA) and believe it matters more than their own.  Strange...

The working class has winners and losers...be a winner.

 

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

do you have any other tip for the working class?

The system will be expanded until it is an empty shell. Then we shall be bled

 

40 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

It is just the beginning of an era of instability and catch up. Many people did not graduate from their classes. Many research papers are on halt. Public debt is mounting, money printing has skyrocketed. Many careers were broken and businesses that were deemed profitable are now under the threat of excessive health regulations. Those two years were bad for children in classes who could not interact normally for two years. 

Meanwhile, the rich enriched themselves. And they made more than if it were a normal period.

This is going to be a perfect cocktail for social explosion in a shorter span than we would like to admit to ourselves. When the government is going to stop pouring money in, dogs will be hungry.

Maybe the Bilderbergs et al have decided we’re living a bit too high on the hog, more people are living into their 80’s and drawing full pensions, health care was too good gave them a longer better quality of  life, so now its time to dial things back. And make a tidy sum on the suffering of others...    

[OftenWrong]

Cant have a good old war cause of the goddam nukes, so  the whole system is just building up pressure. Need to find a way to let off some steam and kill a large number of people, then the system will right itself and general prosperity will return as before.

[QuebecOverCanada]

33 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...a Canadian forum with some members who are obsessed with a foreign country (USA) and believe it matters more than their own.  Strange...

The working class has winners and losers...be a winner.

 

It is strange of you to say it is strange to find interest in culture and history, even foreign ones. Is it an American thing to despise that, culture? Because contrary to the American stereotype I'm referring to, you seem to be very invested in this forum which is involved in those domains, props to you by the way. 58K posts, years and years of activity. Don't make me say you look like a hypocrite and a fool, I wouldn't like to embarrass yet another American on the Internet, because my mother taught me to not beat on the handicapped.

Edited June 22, 2021 by QuebecOverCanada

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

It is strange of you to say it is strange to find interest in culture and history, even foreign ones. Is it an American thing to despite that, culture? Because contrary to the American stereotype I'm referring to, you seem to be very invested in this forum which is involved in those domains. 58K posts, years and years of activity. Don't make me say you look like a hypocrite and a fool, I wouldn't like to embarrass yet another American on the Internet, because my mother taught me to not beat on the handicapped.

 

Already explained years ago....the forum engine is American...site was hosted for years in America...and U.S. content abounds, even in threads about Canada.  It is very common in many forms of Canadian media, but most Americans have no idea how much it drives the Canadian narrative. 

I am here...because America is here...in spades.

America will not save you with a "solution", and is more likely to bury you. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Already explained years ago....the forum engine is American...site was hosted for years in America...and U.S. content abounds, even in threads about Canada.  It is very common in many forms of Canadian media, but most Americans have no idea how much it drives the Canadian narrative. 

I am here...because America is here...in spades.

America will not save you with a "solution", and is more likely to bury you. 

That's very interesting. You know I have the same degree of knowledge about the USA than I do with France. I do not see them as saviors whatsoever. What made you think I found Yankees as the could-be-my-saviours?

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

That's very interesting. You know I have the same degree of knowledge about the USA than I do with France. I do not see them as saviors whatsoever. What made you think I found Yankees as the could-be-my-saviours?

 

The same thing that leads you to believe the USA is your driver for solutions to class warfare and income inequality.   If you had focused this thread on Canada instead, I would have passed it by.

Wall Street is not in Toronto...and France will not save you either.

Edited June 22, 2021 by bush_cheney2004

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The same thing that leads you to believe the USA is your driver for solutions to class warfare and income inequality.   If you had focused this thread on Canada instead, I would have passed it by.

Wall Street is not in Toronto.

The American approach is very interesting. It has its sights on other nations to fix them, hence your support for George W Bush and Dick Cheney in 2004, who destroyed Iraq because Americans are a nation of dipshit arrogant f*cks who think they can meddle with everyone, while not being criticized by a guy online. One can f*ck up entire countries and nations, but one can not denounce that, because hey, what's my take on American politics? I'm a foreigner. But Americans intervene everywhere and support that. 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

The American approach is very interesting. It has its sights on other nations to fix them, hence your support for George W Bush and Dick Cheney in 2004, who destroyed Iraq because Americans are a nation of dipshit arrogant f*cks who think they can meddle with everyone, while not being criticized by a guy online. One can f*ck up entire countries and nations, but one can not denounce that, because hey, what's my take on American politics? I'm a foreigner. But Americans intervene everywhere and support that. 

 

Correct...America is not so confused about its past or present.   It is so influential that social and economic dynamics easily cross the Canadian border, as if filling a void that some Canadians refuse to fill themselves.   Canadians know about the U.S. Fed, CDC, FDA, NASA, NOAA, FAA, and a host of other alphabet federal agencies...because they want to.

Canada intervenes in other nations as well, but pretends it is a "responsibility to protect"...for oil services, mining, infrastructure projects, etc.  (including any requisite bribes).

You can denounce all that by not looking to America to provide you with "solutions", that will only happen when it benefits...America.   We put the war into "class war".