Gen. Rick Hillier calls Trump adviser Peter Navarro an 'idiot' for belittling Canada's role in Afghanistan Social Sharing

[SpankyMcFarland]

Why would anyone expect wisdom from Navarro? His comments on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan are, as usual, outlandish. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[Army Guy]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:21 AM, cannuck said:

Not quite true.  One of my sons-in-law was cited for "leadership and conspicuous bravery under fire" in Afganistan.   We don't give out Purple Hearts for vaccinations but we actually DO recognize significant military achievements.  Through his rather expert eyes, I can tell you there is a huge difference between the quality and flexibility of Canadian training and tactics vs. the far more rigid and out-of-date US preparation of soldiers for that conflict.   I can also say that most US veterans who had to interact with the Canadian forces there to aid and support our closest ally fully appreciate the dedication and personal sacrifice of Canadian forces deployed in that theater.

The incident in which BC is referring happened in the first phase of the Afghan conflict, where sniper dets were lent out to US unit which was inserted directly into a combat situation . The sniper dets earned their combat pay and more that day, saving a lot of US lives, to which the US wanted to repay them for their efforts, by giving them US medals for bravery, something the Canadian Chain of command STILL in Garrison mode became a little envious of, making a big deal out of an incident when someone accused of  messing with a enemy corpse Among the gruesome accusations were that he cut off a dead man's finger, stuck a cigarette in the corpse's mouth and posted a sign on his lifeless chest. "Fuck Terrorism," the note read. Military police also suspected that Perry defecated on a second body.... It should be noted only the sign was found, nothing else was ever proven....

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/elite-sniper-unit-abandoned

And in the process an elite unit was dismantled , dishonored, ripped apart.... This was pretty common " garrison bullshit does not belong on the battle field" soldiers already have way to much to think about without additional distractions... Very few accolades, or medals were every given out to Canadian soldiers, in comparison to other allied units, the US, UK, Germany, etc, all have given out their highest military honors such as Medal of Honor, Victory Cross, etc, and yet no Canadian soldier has received a Victory Cross since  WWII, it's not because we are poor soldiers, nobody ever gets approved...

I would not paint all US units with the same brush in regards to preparations of soldiers, but a lot of Canadian soldiers passed through FT Irwin , in California for the final training phase prior to going overseas, a lot of US personal assisted in that training to make it as realistic as possible, along with Canadian pers from the last ROTO... the training was current and very up to date thanks to everyone's input.... I spent 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan, and we frequently operated along side US ground, and air forces, and would gladly go to war with any of them any day of the week, when the shit hit the fan there are only a few nations you wanted to have your back US , UK to name a few ... I prayed to the war gods on many occasions for US helo or fast air support, and i can tell you nothing calms a grunt down more than to see a pair of US Apaches working over the bad guys, or the long Brrrrrrrrrrt of an A-10 warthog....Just as many US/ UK light units were glad to see Canadians show up with LAV III and Leo tanks when things got a little sporty on the ground...

[cannuck]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:12 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canadian Forces members have a well deserved reputation for doing more with less, but Canada continues to starve them, for over 50 years.   The very idea of investing more in defence and national recognition of the military as a resource/value is seen as "too American",  wasted spending, warmongering, yada, yada, yada.

At the risk of feeding our resident Can/US troll:  It is far worse than you could ever imagine.  Liberals (and this is regretfully a "Liberal/liberal" country by and large) were already soft on defense when Paul Hellyer (Minister of National Defense under Pearson) issued his White Paper in 1964 that wiped out the three independent branches of the military in a move to reduce costs by "unification".  Now, bear in mind this guy believes in UFOs and alien invaders, crossed the floor to sit for a while as a "Conservative" (where his views were considered "too right wing"!!!!!) and back to the LPC, but I have a feeling his hate of the military came from being denied as an RCAF pilot candidate (when he already had a degree in aeronautical engineering, experience and was a private pilot) during WWII.  Fruitcakes don't age well in an environment of rejection.  When the Big Tur...uh...I mean TRUdeau came to power as PM in 1968, policy switched from just anti-military to firmly anti-NATO.  But, what do you expect from an idealistic rich kid educated at the Sorbonne while tightly clutching his Communist Party card while (in words from the DnD investigator doing his background checks) on "walking trips through Eastern Europe".  As you might imagine, no American President could be all that thrilled to have this kind of crap going on along the longest undefended border in the world right in the middle of the Cold War.

I was a civilian employee (and reservist) at the start of all of this on a base where I had spent my teenage years.  It was clear to see the "social engineering" intents of PET to change the military into some kind of "peace corps" with all of the minorities balance (and in particular Quebec content) that could support efforts to entrench the Liberal government for decades to come - which is what happened.

Today, we have next to NOTHING in the line of defense preparedness, mobilization plans (that need to extend far beyond any current military structure) or much of anything else.  What the military knows and Canadians care so little about is that Liberals and liberalism HATES military anything with an idealistic fervour beyond belief.  The counterside is that a "Conservative" in Canada is not very conservative at all (note recent leadership race results for reference) but is the only hope at all for military survival, never mind adequate equipment and resources.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 hours ago, cannuck said:

.... What the military knows and Canadians care so little about is that Liberals and liberalism HATES military anything with an idealistic fervour beyond belief.  The counterside is that a "Conservative" in Canada is not very conservative at all (note recent leadership race results for reference) but is the only hope at all for military survival, never mind adequate equipment and resources.

 

Yes...and confirmed by yet another vantage point about Canada's remembrance of WW2

 

Quote

The 'comfortable' image of Canada the peacekeeper

...The advent of peacekeeping has also tainted Canada's view of the conflict, he said.

While some critics have argued successive governments have exploited the peacekeeping mythology, Cook said he's very proud of Canada's peacekeeping legacy. But peacekeeping "became a very comfortable symbol for us," he said. "I argue in the book that it too has contributed to the silencing of the Second World War."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ww2-second-world-war-pacific-japan-anniversary-1.5708496

 

Accordingly, My "Can/US troll" view of Mr. Navarro's comments...if that's what it takes to get Canada to display more recognition and pride in its military forces, coupled with more defence spending, then they are a good thing.

 

[cannuck]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Accordingly, My "Can/US troll" view of Mr. Navarro's comments...if that's what it takes to get Canada to display more recognition and pride in its military forces, coupled with more defence spending, then they are a good thing.

Navarro's ignorance is only offensive to conservatives, so actually a big boost to what is in power now.

BTW:  I actually DO appreciate our resident Can/US troll for bringing up and out a lot of good points and a different perspective.

Edited September 6, 2020 by cannuck

[PIK]

On 8/27/2020 at 11:35 PM, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.thepostmillennial.com/exclusive-the-military-ambitions-of-the-2020-conservative-leadership-race

 

The war in Afghanistan took the lives of 158 Canadian soldiers. They died from landmines, roadside bombs, improvised explosive devices, and friendly fire. 175 members of the armed forces, some deployed in Afghanistan, have taken their own lives since 2010. 6,700 veterans of the war are currently receiving support for PTSD. MacKay admitted in 2014 that the “ferocity of the mission” had not “dawned” on him and other leaders. The NATO mission in Afghanistan ended in 2014, with a total of 26,000 civilians dead from war-related violence.

 

As usual there's always a d-bag.  Guys like Navarro don't phase me, I've been hearing all of that talk and jokes since I was a kid.

 I do hope that if they increase our military they don't just start going all trigger happy. 

 

You mean Chretiens war?  And he sent our forces over under equipt. Harper got them what they needed . Not everything but a lot more then the liberals gave them.

[Army Guy]

I do want to point a few things out, Yes the Conservatives did mange to purchase some new military equipment, some of it needed, like the C-17, and Leo IIA6M (x20) some of it rushed and useless like the new G wagon, it did not take long for the Taliban to prove it was a soft skin vehs, only one step up from a canvas covered jeep... The main point is None of it was purchased until enough soldiers had died on the battle field.... When enough mothers and widows were crying in front of the media , the government took action and something get done...

Considering every week their was a dog and pony show for our political masters, from every party, senators, Governor Generals, all would get their time with the troops , to which the troops would be open and honest with them, THIS is what we need all of it feel on deaf ears, later in the conflict the troops would just grin and nod, knowing full well they did not give a shit, but then again very few Canadians gave a shit...(.Not all Canadians, i remember a butcher shop in Alberta got wind of the troops needing some meat, they sent over hundreds of steaks by air frozen in dry ice, and all they wanted was for us to sign a banner they sent over...... or the group of grandmothers that knitted thousands of pairs of mittens for us to give out to the Afghan kids....) but the majority could not care... 

The conflict went from being Canadian owned and supported by our entire nation, to one supported by DND only, everything that happened over there was taken out of DND budget period, if we wanted better gear, we either bought it ourselves or the troops in Canada would suffer the cost.... A great way to run a conflict... That was both parties, liberal and conservatives ....

If Canadians really knew the state of our military, they would puke in disgust..