bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Boges said: The disparity of black people's interaction with police is by design. Same for "aboriginals" in Canada.....so ? Cops get paid to do society's dirty work that others won't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Same for "aboriginals" in Canada.....so ? I think what we've seen by the RCMP recently is also atrocious. Quote Cops get paid to do society's dirty work that others won't do. Does dirty work mean disproportionately targeting minorities for drug crimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: OK but it seems like your narrative wants it both ways. Biden can still support BLM even though he was part of the Crime Bill. He can also support BLM even though he's not 100% on board with Defund the Police. That's more of a local policy anyway. Biden is playing the same games for political reasons, and he has been doing it for almost 50 years. Trump got started in 2016. Defund the Police will quickly mushroom into a national battle over ideology....for the campaign. Quote Seems Trump's only tactic is to try a smear Biden with his Defund the Police narrative. How can that be if he's the dude that wrote the Crime Bill? Because Biden refuses to own his original sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: I think what we've seen by the RCMP recently is also atrocious. Does dirty work mean disproportionately targeting minorities for drug crimes? Yes...it does. Whites doing cocaine got hammered less than blacks doing crack....long before Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Somebody called CTV for reporting that he was running away and shot in the back ... but that is indeed the case ? Would it be true if I said "An escaping felon shot at police and police returned fire, killing him?" By your standards it is, 100%. 1) Rayshard committed a felony assault when he attacked the police 2) he was running/escaping 3) he did shoot at the police (a taser). So, just like CTV checked a few boxes (he was running, and he got shot, bullets hit his back) and went with that as a description of the event, I also checked some boxes that were all true and went with it as a description of the event. CTV completely ignored the fact that he shot a taser at the moment he himself was shot. That's disgustingly inaccurate. Only a total god-damned moron would fail to notice the massive gap between the truth of the matter and what CTV reported, if they saw the video themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Boges said: The disparity of black people's interaction with police is by design. sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/ So do you think the fact 74% of shootings in New York are by black people is a conspiracy, too? Or that 62% of murders and 66% of robberies are by black people? Do you think if police stepped up patrols in ritizy areas of Manhattan they'd realize there were shootings and robberies and murders there they hadn't noticed before? If police took people away from Harlem and South Brooklyn and ignored all those frantic 911 calls and instead increased patrols on the Upper East Side would that be a more important use of their resources? Are you aware, by the way, that the number of young black men in prison has declined by 50% since 2001? Or that the number of police shootings has seen a similar decline? Could you explain to us how that's part of the conspiracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes...it does. Whites doing cocaine got hammered less than blacks doing crack....long before Trump. Who's blaming Trump? BLM was a thing under Obama. And the problems go back well further than that. But it's good that you concede that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Boges said: I think it's easy for someone who's never had a bad interaction with the police to say that he should have just listened to the cops. But as with seen with the Shooting of Philando Castile, even if you do everything right, you still can get killed by the cops. He didn't do everything right. He reached for something after saying he had a gun and ignored the cop shouting at him not to move. 3 hours ago, Boges said: I concede it doesn't make much sense to fight a tazer away from cops, I'm not sure what the end game was there. Then again, he was drunk. The Cops still didn't need to kill him. Where was he going to go? You have his car. Well, based on the video, he was going to turn and fire it at the face of the pursuing officer. 3 hours ago, Boges said: I think their pride was damaged from being out muscled by a drunk guy. Or maybe they didn't want to get the spikes from a stun gun in their eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Argus said: So do you think the fact 74% of shootings in New York are by black people is a conspiracy, too? Or that 62% of murders and 66% of robberies are by black people? Do you think if police stepped up patrols in ritizy areas of Manhattan they'd realize there were shootings and robberies and murders there they hadn't noticed before? If police took people away from Harlem and South Brooklyn and ignored all those frantic 911 calls and instead increased patrols on the Upper East Side would that be a more important use of their resources? Are you aware, by the way, that the number of young black men in prison has declined by 50% since 2001? Or that the number of police shootings has seen a similar decline? Could you explain to us how that's part of the conspiracy? Yes, it's still a conspiracy to overwhelmingly target black for crimes that they don't do at any greater rate than whites. Now they're criminals, they can't get good jobs, they're more likely to go back to prison out of desperation. Self perpetuating problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 23 hours ago, Argus said: On an intellectual level I can say, looking on it and with a little time, that they should not have shot this individual. Don't get me wrong. I don't care about Rayshard Brooks. He is, in my opinion, the author of his own misfortune. He drank and drove, and he resisted arrest, took a police taser and pointed it at them. Too bad, so sad. A case of Darwin's law here. But I understand the police instinct, and I think almost any cop would have shot him under those circumstances. I tend to agree. Especially if there’s more than one officer present. If it’s a lone officer, shooting is justified. If an officer allows themselves to be taser, therefore rendered incapacitated, there life is in danger. However, if more than one officer is present, than that isn’t the case. However, let’s be honest. If this was a white individual, it wouldn’t have made it on the news, and nobody would even know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Argus said: He didn't do everything right. He reached for something after saying he had a gun and ignored the cop shouting at him not to move. He had a gun, as is his right as an American. Quote Well, based on the video, he was going to turn and fire it at the face of the pursuing officer. Or maybe they didn't want to get the spikes from a stun gun in their eyes. Tazer's aren't fatal. Cops continue to remind everyone of that. The cops had all the leverage there. Dude wasn't going to get away. They had his car. And they already know he didn't have a real gun. Edited June 15, 2020 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Boges said: Which speaks to the defund the police movement. If cops aren't social workers and bad people to deescalate situations, then perhaps more of their funding should go towards people that can do that and less money for military equipment and cops that sit around at the bottom of a hill trying to catch speeders. After the furor over the shooting of Laquaine Macdonald in Chicago and the condemnation of police from all sides the murder rate went up 50%. After the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore and the similar furor, protests, condemnation, etc., the murder rate in Baltimore went up more than 50%. In both cases police pulled back, initiated almost nothing, did few street checks, did not engage in proactive efforts to stop crime. Police, under new, more stringent rules, and afraid of doing anything which could get them accused of racism, simply were far more cautious and far less effective. Hundreds and hundreds of more black people died. I predict it will be even worse now. New York City's Democratic administration has voted to cut the police budget by a billion dollars. Given New York was already heading back to the bad old days, with increasing murders and violence, more graffiti, public transit breaking down, etc., BEFORE this, and given their huge impending budget crisis I think we'll see them going back to the days of the 1970s-80s, when people were too frightened to take the subway after dark, and where people who went out took taxis even to go three blocks, for fear of crime. And how much attention will BLM pay to these hundreds of extra murders? None. Screaming and ranting and howling in fury at the death of a criminal by police is all they care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 One thing that is worth mentioning here, is that the policeman threatened him with a taser several times before Rayshard started running. The significance of that can't be overstated. The police didn't even want to use a taser, on his leg. They threatened him with that. I think it's outrageous that people think they wanted to kill him but they wouldn't even taser his leg if they didn't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Argus said: After the furor over the shooting of Laquaine Macdonald in Chicago and the condemnation of police from all sides the murder rate went up 50%. After the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore and the similar furor, protests, condemnation, etc., the murder rate in Baltimore went up more than 50%. In both cases police pulled back, initiated almost nothing, did few street checks, did not engage in proactive efforts to stop crime. Police, under new, more stringent rules, and afraid of doing anything which could get them accused of racism, simply were far more cautious and far less effective. Hundreds and hundreds of more black people died. I predict it will be even worse now. New York City's Democratic administration has voted to cut the police budget by a billion dollars. Given New York was already heading back to the bad old days, with increasing murders and violence, more graffiti, public transit breaking down, etc., BEFORE this, and given their huge impending budget crisis I think we'll see them going back to the days of the 1970s-80s, when people were too frightened to take the subway after dark, and where people who went out took taxis even to go three blocks, for fear of crime. And how much attention will BLM pay to these hundreds of extra murders? None. Screaming and ranting and howling in fury at the death of a criminal by police is all they care about. That speaks to the shitty nature of policing and more particularly police unions. If they receive more scrutiny they just decide to not do their job. Note, crime in Camden, New Jersey dropped after they disbanded the police and re-trained them. https://abc7chicago.com/this-city-disbanded-its-police-department-in-2012-heres-what-happened-next/6238880/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: One thing that is worth mentioning here, is that the policeman threatened him with a taser several times before Rayshard started running. The significance of that can't be overstated. The police didn't even want to use a taser, on his leg. They threatened him with that. I think it's outrageous that people think they wanted to kill him but they wouldn't even taser his leg if they didn't have to. They didn't have to do anything. Did they really think he was going to start Tazing innocent civilians? Everything that happened was a result of cops escalating the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Boges said: He had a gun, as is his right as an American. Tazer's aren't fatal. Cops continue to remind everyone of that. The cops had all the leverage there. Dude wasn't going to get away. They had his car. And they already know he didn't have a real gun. 1) You don't have the right to steal a gun from a cop and shoot it at them 2) Tell that to Dzeikanski, who died at YVR from Tasers, 2B) tasers aren't meant to hit people in the neck or face 3) He shot at them. They had guns. It was a stupid moment in time. The escalation factor was completely jacked and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Boges said: He had a gun, as is his right as an American. Sure. But it's pretty goddamn stupid to say you have one and then reach into your car given how wary cops are these days. 10 minutes ago, Boges said: Tazer's aren't fatal. Cops continue to remind everyone of that. They can be. They can also blind you if you get one in the eye. And I read on other forums the type of tazer in use has two charges. So there was another one left for the second cop. 10 minutes ago, Boges said: The cops had all the leverage there. Dude wasn't going to get away. They had his car. And they already know he didn't have a real gun. I feel zero sympathy for this criminal. There are so many completely innocent people dying - many in the violence caused by these protests, that I have none for violent criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: 1) You don't have the right to steal a gun from a cop and shoot it at them I was talking about Philando Castille. AFIK Brooks was unarmed and didn't steak the cops sidearm. Quote 2) Tell that to Dzeikanski, who died at YVR from Tasers, 2B) tasers aren't meant to hit people in the neck or face Then perhaps don't follow the suspect close enough to get tazed. They had all the leverage in that situation. Quote 3) He shot at them. They had guns. It was a stupid moment in time. The escalation factor was completely jacked and unnecessary. Imagine how different things would have turned out if the cops impounded his car and offered to drive him home. Edited June 15, 2020 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Boges said: They didn't have to do anything. Did they really think he was going to start Tazing innocent civilians? Everything that happened was a result of cops escalating the situation. That's 100% idiocy, or lies. Rayshard is the one that started the fight, he was the one that started the shooting, he was the one that was passed out drunk in the Wendy's drive-thru lane. What did the cops do first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Boges said: Who's blaming Trump? BLM was a thing under Obama. And the problems go back well further than that. But it's good that you concede that. You are...in the political context for the 2020 campaign. Never mind that Joe Biden and his party have been heavily invested in the "police state" for decades. Obama didn't do dick all about this issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: You are...in the political context for the 2020 campaign. Never mind that Joe Biden and his party have been heavily invested in the "police state" for decades. Obama didn't do dick all about this issue. Actually you started that with the Biden 1994 stuff. Why does that matter in 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Boges said: Want to cite the instances of that? There's a difference between shooting an armed suspect and shooting an unarmed suspect. In the instances that have caused outrage, and unarmed person was murdered. What if the unarmed suspect is beating the living shit out of you? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/10/07/ferguson-effect-savagely-beaten-cop-didnt-draw-gun-for-fear-of-media-uproar-says-chicago-police-chief/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Boges said: Agreed. Imagine how different things would have turned out if the cops impounded his car and offered to drive him home. Riiiight. He wasn't at .075 BA, just pulled over at a check-stop. He was passed out in the Driver's seat at Wendy's, unresponsive, and his BA was .108. He was legally impaired, and more than halfway to legally impaired again. A BA of .108 is crazy. We saw it on video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Boges said: Actually you started that with the Biden 1994 stuff. Why does that matter in 2020? It matters because the Democratic nominee (and several of his VP hopefuls) are neck deep in the existing policies and funding for law enforcement and incarcerations. Trump was not a part of that political class going back 50 years. No matter....Americans (and wannabe Canadians) will still line up to praise the virtues of Obama and Biden. Edited June 15, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Boges said: Alright, being killed by the police. 9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year. Meanwhile 7400 were murdered, mostly by other black people. 2 hours ago, Boges said: Or being violently handcuffed for sleeping in your car or jaywalking. It wasn't violent until he violently resisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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