French Patriot Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor? Most people see Judas as a traitor in the myth of the crucifixion. Few recognize that Jesus was asking his most trusted disciple, Judas, to turn him over to the Jews and Pilate. Most are unaware of the meaning of the sop that Jesus gave to Judas at the last supper. Without knowing the definition and meaning of that word, it is not surprising that most think of Judas as they do. The completely wrong way. A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker. Dictionary reference for sop. Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc. A conciliatory gift or bribe. Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan. If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures say must come to pass. Meaning that Yahweh would have to control all the players including Judas. Scriptures show Jesus persuading Judas to do what he would not ordinarily have thought of doing. Judas believed that Jesus was the messiah who was to rise again to lead the Jews. This lie imposed by Yahweh. Was Judas a good man doing Jesus’ will or was he a traitor? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdot Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, French Patriot said: he was Jesus’ banker. Yes, yes indeed. Like many Christians of, today, Jesus also had a Jewish banker. Although, unlike some of today's Jewish bankers, ol' Judas was not trustworthy so it's too bad that you falsely made him appear like he was trustworthy. Of course I love you like a, brother, but that does not change how your words usually have no tolerance for truth and factual history. Therefore when it comes to our buddy Judas, I recommend readers go by the holy bible itself: Quote John 12: 4-8 4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5“Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. 7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me.” Edited May 17, 2020 by Tdot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Tdot said: Yes, yes indeed. Like many Christians of, today, Jesus also had a Jewish banker. Although, unlike some of today's Jewish bankers, ol' Judas was not trustworthy so it's too bad that you falsely made him appear like he was trustworthy. Of course I love you like a, brother, but that does not change how your words usually have no tolerance for truth and factual history. Therefore when it comes to our buddy Judas, I recommend readers go by the holy bible itself: You are a troll and your racism and anti semitism are there for all to see. Your act is worn out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdot Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) You support demonic Dems. Which means you always hate, logic, therefore your illogical post here whined some nonsense about 1)trolling although I presented biblical scripture which exactly, specifically answered the question posed in the OP here lol and 2)anti-Semitism you hallucinated when I mentioned that today's Jewish bankers are in fact trustworthy so I thank you pal for showing your teammates around here that you do not always need my help, to display your fatuity. Edited May 17, 2020 by Tdot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 5/16/2020 at 9:04 PM, Tdot said: Therefore when it comes to our buddy Judas, I recommend readers go by the holy bible itself: Exactly what I did. If you read the last super, and understand what a sop is and how it is an honor to be first chosen to get one, you will agree with me. That or the other apostles were either stupid or something else for doing nothing while knowing that Judas was about to do. Your choice. You likely read ok but do not seem to understand what you are reading. Would you have sat there and done nothing if you were an apostle? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdot Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 On May 28, 2020 at 1:17 PM, French Patriot said: Would you have sat there and done nothing if you were an apostle? You waited two (2) weeks, to reply here on topic. I will respect that pattern which you created. So I'll be back in ten (10) days to respond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) On 5/28/2020 at 4:17 PM, French Patriot said: Exactly what I did. If you read the last super, and understand what a sop is and how it is an honor to be first chosen to get one, you will agree with me. That or the other apostles were either stupid or something else for doing nothing while knowing that Judas was about to do. Your choice. You likely read ok but do not seem to understand what you are reading. Would you have sat there and done nothing if you were an apostle? Regards DL Which part of the Last Supper shows Jesus giving Judas an "sop?" Quote We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker. We know who the favorite was: the one called "beloved." That wasn't Judas since the beloved was still around even after Judas was dead. Quote Without the betrayal, Jesus would not have died for us, as Yahweh had planned, and scriptures say that Judas also had no choice as that would have derailed god’s plan. Judas may've been the one chosen to betray Jesus because of his nature . Judas was untrustworthy with the handling of the funds and he doesn't seem to believe that Jesus was the Messiah - he did not refer to Him as Lord, but just called Him "rabbi." Quote In any case, Judas had the full capacity of making his choice—at least up to the point where “Satan entered into him” (John 13:27)—and God’s foreknowledge (John 13:10, 18, 21) in no way supersedes Judas’ ability to make any given choice. Rather, what Judas would choose eventually, God saw as if it was a present observation, and Jesus made it clear that Judas was responsible for his choice and would be held accountable for it. “I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me” (Mark 14:18). Notice that Jesus characterizes Judas’ participation as a betrayal. And regarding accountability for this betrayal Jesus said, “Woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Mark 14:21). Satan, too, had a part in this, as we see in John 13:26-27, and he, too, will be held accountable for his deeds. God in His wisdom was able, as always, to manipulate even Satan’s rebellion for the benefit of mankind. Satan helped send Jesus to the cross, and on the cross sin and death were defeated, and now God’s provision of salvation is freely available to all who receive Jesus Christ as Savior. https://www.gotquestions.org/Judas-betray-Jesus.html Edited June 5, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) On 5/28/2020 at 4:17 PM, French Patriot said: Exactly what I did. If you read the last super, and understand what a sop is and how it is an honor to be first chosen to get one, you will agree with me. That or the other apostles were either stupid or something else for doing nothing while knowing that Judas was about to do. Your choice. You likely read ok but do not seem to understand what you are reading. Would you have sat there and done nothing if you were an apostle? Regards DL You may've read a bible - which translation? I don't know. But by the looks of it, it isn't the "mainstream" Bible, since you're claiming that Judas was the favorite of Jesus. I'm still waiting for the explanation of the sop and Judas in that Last Supper. Edited June 6, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 Jesus has been mythologized. Also there is no God, however Christian Atheists like myself are helping to perpetuate the message of humanism that was at the core of his teachings. Most Christians today are, to me, deluded and misled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, betsy said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of the sop and Judas in that Last Supper. Perhaps it was Minestrone (Italian) sop, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: Most Christians today are, to me, deluded and misled. In what regard? Next up, do let us know who will get into heaven... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 5/16/2020 at 10:01 AM, French Patriot said: If any blame for Jesus’ death is to be given, it must be to Yahweh, whose plan, scriptures sa Why are you looking for blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: 1. In what regard? 2. Next up, do let us know who will get into heaven... 1. They promote false idols 2. There is no heaven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. They promote false idols 2. There is no heaven Care to expand on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/1/2020 at 10:37 AM, Tdot said: You waited two (2) weeks, to reply here on topic. I will respect that pattern which you created. So I'll be back in ten (10) days to respond Sorry I was bus6y, but seeing your attitude, bite me you pathetic piece of human garbage. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/5/2020 at 6:50 AM, betsy said: Which part of the Last Supper shows Jesus giving Judas an "sop?" Just before Jesus tells Judas to do what he is to do quickly. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/5/2020 at 6:50 AM, betsy said: Judas may've been the one chosen to betray Jesus because of his nature . Judas was untrustworthy with the handling of the funds and he doesn't seem to believe that Jesus was the Messiah - It was indeed because of his nature that Jesus chose him, unless you think Jesus was apoor judge3 of character and would make mistakes. As to Judas' untrustworthiness, get the quotes that make you think this. On 6/5/2020 at 6:50 AM, betsy said: God’s provision of salvation is freely available to all who receive Jesus Christ as Savior. Freely??? No. You have to show that you are immoral enough to accept you abdicating your responsibility for your own actions. On Jesus dying for you. It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place. You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card. It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral. You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that. Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 6:01 AM, betsy said: I'm still waiting for the explanation of the sop and Judas in that Last Supper. Already explained by the dictionary and my post. Accept it or not. It is in your own bible. Just as the other apostles sitting back and doing nothing while Judas when to do his duty to Jesus. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 7:17 AM, Michael Hardner said: Jesus has been mythologized. Also there is no God, however Christian Atheists like myself are helping to perpetuate the message of humanism that was at the core of his teachings. Most Christians today are, to me, deluded and misled. I agree,but not because of them mythicizing Jesus. More because they have literalized the myth of Jesus. The ancient Christians would have laughed their heads off if they would have known how dumbed down the church would make their sheeple. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, OftenWrong said: In what regard? Next up, do let us know who will get into heaven... What makes you think Yahweh will not be able to do what he wills, and save us all? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 8:46 AM, OftenWrong said: Why are you looking for blame? Because the bible blames humans unjustly. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 12 hours ago, French Patriot said: Just before Jesus tells Judas to do what he is to do quickly. Regards DL I don't understand what you mean about the sop. Cite the particular verse, pls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, French Patriot said: Already explained by the dictionary and my post. Accept it or not. It is in your own bible. Just as the other apostles sitting back and doing nothing while Judas when to do his duty to Jesus. Regards DL Here is your definition: A sop is basically a gift or conciliatory bribe, something that seals a deal. That is what Jesus gave Judas, his most trusted disciple. We know he was Jesus’ favorite because he was Jesus’ banker. Dictionary reference for sop. Something that is done or given to someone in order to prevent trouble, gain support, etc. A conciliatory gift or bribe. What sop was given to Judas?? Cite the particular verse, and explain. Edited June 19, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 12 hours ago, French Patriot said: It was indeed because of his nature that Jesus chose him, unless you think Jesus was apoor judge3 of character and would make mistakes. As to Judas' untrustworthiness, get the quotes that make you think this. Freely??? Yes, freely. freely available to all who receive Jesus Christ as Savior. Quote No. You have to show that you are immoral enough to accept you abdicating your responsibility for your own actions. On Jesus dying for you. EH? What convoluted statement is that? Doesn't make any sense at all! Explain that...........in ENGLISH, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 11 hours ago, betsy said: I don't understand what you mean about the sop. Cite the particular verse, pls. Look in your own bible. I gave the dictionary and logic of the sop being a seal between Judas and Jesus. The other apostles knew of it and that is why not a one of them lifted a finger to stop Judas. Jesus asked Judas to do his bidding quickly, and Judas did as Jesus bid him do. https://biblehub.com/john/13-26.htm Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. You really should read the story at least once. 11 hours ago, betsy said: Yes, freely. freely available to all who receive Jesus Christ as Savior. It is really stupid to say freely, then write of a condition. Stop trying to make Jesus into a moral monster. His morals are likely better than yours. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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