The case for a mandatory tracking app

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Good for them....the Iraqis didn't need no steenkin' tracking app.

It's Saddam and his buddies who should have been tracked. Especially his bff's in America.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's Saddam and his buddies who should have been tracked. Especially his bff's in America.

 

They were tracked....right up until we were done with them.

We track Canadians too, but that doesn't mean they must comply.

Google....Facebook....Twitter....Instagram...YouTube.....all voluntary.

Edited May 10, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

You have already doomed your own argument....compliance...even in Canada.

Sometimes there just isn't "an app for that".

I haven't doomed my argument but you've clearly chosen to abandon yours about the safety of constitutions.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

They were tracked....right up until we were done with them.

You're not done with them....you're being tracked too, who are you trying to kid?

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

It's odd to highlight New Zealand as justification for the lockdown due to their low death rate of COVID19, but then criticize the comparisons with Taiwan and Australia as "island states". Australia is a continent, not and island. Also, I guess New Zealand isn't an island state...

Australia and Taiwan faced a greater challenge than we did at first, and handled it better due to acting faster and being prepared.

However, what we're speaking about now is how to reopen without a second big wave of infections. Given these are island nations and now tightly controlling who gets into their countries they will have an advantage in preventing future infections. And they are all using tracking apps.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

I haven't doomed my argument but you've clearly chosen to abandon yours about the safety of constitutions.

 

The safety lies with the governed, not the constitution....except for the sheep who don't know the difference.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're not done with them....you're being tracked too, who are you trying to kid?

 

Yes we are...Saddam is quite dead.

I don't own a commercial fishing vessel with cameras like you did/do.    

Smile for the cameras !

[Rue]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

And did the persecution of Jews start with some innocuous out-of-the-blue govenrment surveillance mechanism?

Of course not! 

I know what 'basic freedoms' are. You apparently don't.

You clearly do not as evidenced by the above utterly ignorant statement  above.

In fact the surveillance of Jews and Romax or other visible minorities as history shows  started based on people making subjective accusations to their police  about minorities often fueled by other government organizations or religious institutions. 

Citizens vigilante groups and often children were used to surveille targeted citizens  obtaining evidence no differently then an app does today, by gaining unknown  access to the movement and day to day routines of the people surveilled.

I can not possibly believe you are oblivious to such fact.

 

[Rue]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're not done with them....you're being tracked too, who are you trying to kid?

The fact we are tracked does not make the tracking acceptable,  legal  or without potential abuse. No one denies tracking. The issue is, what do we do to assure the tracking is done with our informed consent and used only for the limited purpose we consented to.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Rue

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I don't own a commercial fishing vessel with cameras like you did/do.    

Smile for the cameras !

I'll never forget the time I was taking a leak over the rail in the middle of the night when the flash on the fisheries plane lit up the sky and snapped a picture of me full Monty, I almost had crap too.  He couldn't have been more than 100 m off the surface when he flew overhead.  He keeps an eye on us when were watching whales too.

This is him right here.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

You clearly do not as evidenced by the above utterly ignorant statement  above.

In fact the surveillance of Jews and Romax or other visible minorities as history shows  started based on people making subjective accusations to their police  about minorities often fueled by other government organizations or religious institutions. 

Citizens vigilante groups and often children were used to surveille targeted citizens  obtaining evidence no differently then an app does today, by gaining unknown  access to the movement and day to day routines of the people surveilled.

I can not possibly believe you are oblivious to such fact.

 

Imagine if people did make accusations, and the police were able to say, "not according to the app, they aren't".

It could completely eliminate the making of false accusations.  And make true ones redundant.  Win-win!

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'll never forget the time I was taking a leak over the rail in the middle of the night when the flash on the fisheries plane lit up the sky and snapped a picture of me full Monty, I almost had crap too.  He couldn't have been more than 100 m off the surface when he flew overhead.  He keeps an eye on us when were watching whales too

 

 

I'm sure there is an app for that too !

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Imagine if people did make accusations, and the police were able to say, "not according to the app, they aren't".

It could completely eliminate the making of false accusations.  And make true ones redundant.  Win-win!

 

Oh...hell no !    Ratting each other out to the gubmint is another point of failure.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I don't assume it's only going to be used in the way I assume it will be.  I just assume it won't be used in the way you assume it will be.

I find it passing strange you assume you know what people died for, too.

Yes you make assumptions.  I do not assume.  I repudiatdcassumptions being only of one possibility. I do not assume yourcassumptiinx, you do. I merely point out simply making one assumption is defective. Whether a power is abused or not depends on actual fact. I never contended otherwise.

Further, knowing why Canadian soldiers served and died in World War one, Two, Korea, Afghanistan  is not an assumption- it is based on assim8lating knowledge based on cherished and  learned lessons in the public domain...its obtained from the testimony and legacy of the soldiers who survived and  died and the stories they left behind for us. It comes from the tetimony of survivors and eye witnesses  of political persecution and war correspondents and case law.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Rue

[eyeball]

Just now, Rue said:

The fact we are tracked does not make the tracking acceptable,  legal  or without potential abuse. No one denies tracking. The issue is, whatvdo wd do to assure the tracking is done with our nformed consent and used only for the limited purpose we consented to.

By tracking the trackers Rue. Monitoring the monitors, turning Orwell's Telescreens around, surveillance in balance with souveillance, getting in Big Brother's face in other words. How many freaking ways do I have to keep repeating it?

Mutual public/official trust.  How hard can it be?

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Imagine if people did make accusations, and the police were able to say, "not according to the app, they aren't".

It could completely eliminate the making of false accusations.  And make true ones redundant.  Win-win!

Imagine  false evidence or information stored on an app then used to convict someone.  No wait..not in your selective world where truth is established by an app telling you how to think.

 

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Oh...hell no !    Ratting each other out to the gubmint is another point of failure.

Only when you get caught like Gregory and Travis McMichael.  If they hadn't been caught on video killing Ahmaud Arbery 'ratting' him out would have succeeded.  I guess I can see why some Americans would want to preserve the sanctity of the freedom to have that sort of power over one another.

[Moonlight Graham]

I would destroy my phone before installing a mandatory tracking app.

Our governments are liars, power-seekers, and can't be trusted.  They can't even design functional software to pay their own employees (Phoenix), I'm not going to trust them with my tracking data.  Don't blame me if people die because of it, blame them.

In a perfect world, if 100% privacy was guaranteed, the app secure from hacks etc., and contact from the app when a person is in contact with someone with COVID was automated and out of the hands of humans then maybe I'd consider it, but that will never ever happen.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, eyeball said:

Only when you get caught like Gregory and Travis McMichael.  If they hadn't been caught on video killing Ahmaud Arbery 'ratting' him out would have succeeded.  I guess I can see why some Americans would want to preserve the sanctity of the freedom to have that sort of power over one another.

 

Well....neither Canada or America are Romania.

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I'm sure there is an app for that too !

Easy peasy with AIS.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I would destroy my phone before installing a mandatory tracking app.

Our governments are liars, power-seekers, and can't be trusted.  They can't even design functional software to pay their own employees (Phoenix), I'm not going to trust them with my tracking data.  Don't blame me if people die because of it, blame them.

In a perfect world, if 100% privacy was guaranteed, the app secure from hacks etc., and contact from the app when a person is in contact with someone with COVID was automated and out of the hands of humans then maybe I'd consider it, but that will never ever happen.

We could get South Korea to design and manage our tracking system for us...sort of the way we should have gotten Norway to manage our oil decades ago. 

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Well....neither Canada or America are Romania.

Well....petunias aren't boulders either so there.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Rue said:

Imagine  false evidence or information stored on an app then used to convict someone.  No wait..not in your selective world where truth is established by an app telling you how to think.

 

So the COVID-19 tracking app falsely states someone was there when a bank was being robbed.  Leads to a conviction in the absence of any other evidence.

Let me know when that happens and I'll join you on the barricades.  I'll even bring sandwiches.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Rue said:

Yes you make assumptions.  I do not assume.  I repudiatdcassumptions being only of one possibility. I do not assume yourcassumptiinx, you do. I merely point out simply making one assumption is defective. Whether a power is abused or not depends on actual fact. I never contended otherwise.

Further, knowing why Canadian soldiers served and died in World War one, Two, Korea, Afghanistan  is not an assumption- it is based on assim8lating knowledge based on cherished and  learned lessons in the public domain...its obtained from the testimony and legacy of the soldiers who survived and  died and the stories they left behind for us. It comes from the tetimony of survivors and eye witnesses  of political persecution and war correspondents and case law.

Yes, but none of it supports your paranoid delusions.

[Rue]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

By tracking the trackers Rue. Monitoring the monitors, turning Orwell's Telescreens around, surveillance in balance with souveillance, getting in Big Brother's face in other words. How many freaking ways do I have to keep repeating it?

Mutual public/official trust.  How hard can it be?

How many times must you be told tracking trackers is  complex and problematic and your assuming it can be done let alone is not hard is a trite assumption given with no thought to the complexity and difficulty in the task you assume can be done.

It also assumes that tracking trackers prevents the damage the tracker caused in the first place which is not necessarily the case.

You ask for people to give up their freedoms to the state and then assume the state will police itself and people should give blind trust.

No.  Institutions demanding blind faith have been shown to abuse their power precisely because of blind faith and placing safeguards to guarantee the prevention of abuse of power before the power is delegated. History and law have made thatbkesson abundantly clear.

Non I do not allow you to point a gun at my head assumebif you shoot me for the wrong reason putting you  in jail helps me plug the hole in my head or come back to life or makes my life whole again because you paid me in a private lawsuit compensation for remaining maimed.