COVID-19 Programs and those who still go to work

[cougar]

Supposedly now we have a number of different programs designed to help those who lost their jobs in the pandemic.  You've got the EI, the $2,000/month whatever program, the mortgage payment deferral program, the Wage subsidy program, the Small Employer interest free loan program and God knows what else is going on.

Well, here is the question.

What about us who still go to work and risk our lives, sometimes to make less than $2,000/month?  Something is wrong with this picture.   I do not mind people receiving help payments; I just think that all those who still work need to be receiving some sort of bonuses too.  Otherwise we look stupid we still show up for work!

On the wage subsidy side I also do not want to see myself paying 75% of someone's wages, if this someone is working full time to generate profit for a private entity!  This program , in my view, creates an opportunity for gross abuse of taxpayer money.  

But at the end of the day, it is probably not my money they will be using, but money they will print;   just paper or digitally created numbers.

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

What about us who still go to work and risk our lives, sometimes to make less than $2,000/month?  Something is wrong with this picture.   I do not mind people receiving help payments; I just think that all those who still work need to be receiving some sort of bonuses too.  Otherwise we look stupid we still show up for work!

I'm 100% in agreement with this.  I'd add a tax holiday for the duration of the crisis with your bonuses.  You guy's are hero's for keeping it together out there especially those who have to deal with the public.

[betsy]

6 hours ago, cougar said:

Supposedly now we have a number of different programs designed to help those who lost their jobs in the pandemic.  You've got the EI, the $2,000/month whatever program, the mortgage payment deferral program, the Wage subsidy program, the Small Employer interest free loan program and God knows what else is going on.

Well, here is the question.

What about us who still go to work and risk our lives, sometimes to make less than $2,000/month?  Something is wrong with this picture.   I do not mind people receiving help payments; I just think that all those who still work need to be receiving some sort of bonuses too.  Otherwise we look stupid we still show up for work!

On the wage subsidy side I also do not want to see myself paying 75% of someone's wages, if this someone is working full time to generate profit for a private entity!  This program , in my view, creates an opportunity for gross abuse of taxpayer money.  

But at the end of the day, it is probably not my money they will be using, but money they will print;   just paper or digitally created numbers.

 

Well, for those who'd lost their jobs - it's not like as if they got any choice.  

If you get laid off, you get laid off.   If you lose clientele, you don't get any income!  If you're quarantined, you lose income.  If you've chosen not to work and yet your job is still available - I don't think you'll qualify for any assistance, am I correct in this assumption?

That's the difference between folks who lose income from those who still works.   If I'm not mistaken, some grocery stores like Loblaws have given an increase in salaries for their workers as an incentive to keep working, or as a bonus for being there?

Edited April 11, 2020 by betsy

[Right To Left]

17 hours ago, cougar said:

Supposedly now we have a number of different programs designed to help those who lost their jobs in the pandemic.  You've got the EI, the $2,000/month whatever program, the mortgage payment deferral program, the Wage subsidy program, the Small Employer interest free loan program and God knows what else is going on.

Well, here is the question.

What about us who still go to work and risk our lives, sometimes to make less than $2,000/month?  Something is wrong with this picture.   I do not mind people receiving help payments; I just think that all those who still work need to be receiving some sort of bonuses too.  Otherwise we look stupid we still show up for work!

On the wage subsidy side I also do not want to see myself paying 75% of someone's wages, if this someone is working full time to generate profit for a private entity!  This program , in my view, creates an opportunity for gross abuse of taxpayer money.  

But at the end of the day, it is probably not my money they will be using, but money they will print;   just paper or digitally created numbers.

 

I doubt it's on the menu, but if money is created now out of thin air, it is presumed that economic growth will reabsorb that new money in the future. So, this is essentially mortgaging the future. If the future can't pay of its debts, then what! 

It would be nice if we emerge from the crisis with a new attitude about focusing on things that are important, and cast off a lot of the garbage that's being subsidized right now.....starting with Agribusiness- producing poor quality food by dumping toxic amounts of chemical fertilizers on fields planted with GMO seeds...at least half of it to feed caged livestock kept in sickening depraved conditions to provide us cheap meat! Cruise ships come to mind as a totally useless subsidized industry...which are toxic on so many levels....dumping wastes and polluting coastal waters, third world registrations - let Liberia support them, and exploiting cheap third world labor. And then there's the airlines....the industry receives enough subsidies already! A lot of crap consumer products that are sold by aggressive mind-warping advertising and marketing campaigns. Hopefully the future world will be simpler, less polluting and less of a demand on resources, so more than one or two generations can survive!

As for me, I'm surprised my place of work was classed as "essential" so I'm still going to work.....for now at least!

Edited April 11, 2020 by Right To Left

[cannuck]

Have to agree with RtoL: we will live in a very different economic world in a few months.   The real question will be if there is ANY leadership with the brains and balls to seize the opportunity and rebuild the economy with value being added instead of returning to the phoney Casino Capitalist and drawers of water, huers of wood.  But: since Canada is notoriously short of such leadership, it will be the clusterfuck to end all clusterfucks - paid with another trillion in debt.

[cougar]

5 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Cruise ships come to mind as a totally useless subsidized industry...which are toxic on so many levels...

Absolutely.  But then think about all those people who want to go on a cruise ship to tell their friends that they are living the dream, traveling around the world, or those taking some girlfriend to impress her, or old folks who thought they have worked a lot all their lives to deserve being on a cruise.  None of them ever thinks about what this does to the environment, wildlife or to the lifestyle of other people.  (those living at the coast and having to put up with all noise and pollution come to mind).

The real question will be if there is ANY leadership with the brains and balls to seize the opportunity and rebuild the economy with value being added instead of returning to the phoney Casino Capitalist

I think we live in a very interesting time where the scams of capitalism can get exposed.  Whether this will happen , I have no idea, most likely not.

The "economy" is an engine that puts food on the table of regular people, gives them shelter and means of transportation, while letting some individuals amass what they think is real wealth - rights over huge properties, tons of gold, ridiculous bank accounts etc, etc.

Now that the economy has slowed down, the government will print money to give people , which would be the equivalent of taking the money from those useless fat accounts the rich people have.  Imagine they had their money stored in a warehouse and this warehouse burnt; then at the same time the government printed the same amount of money and gave it to the poor.  Who would even notice? (since the warehouse has not actually burnt and the rich still think they have the same buying power)

But then imagine for a moment that the money the rich had before the pandemic was equally worthless because it wasn't going to buy them the amount of food, services and materials at regular prices, since there are not enough available on the planet.  They simply ran a scam, keeping everyone in control and living for free, while laying hands on the best items and properties they set their eyes on.  After the pandemic, they will continue doing the same thing, they've lost a bit of "growth" - an increment in those overinflated accounts.  They have to swallow that to continue doing business as usual.

Once COVID-19 disappears, we , the ants, will continue to destroy the environment at the highest pace possible to satisfy the madness of those few people running the Wold.

 

 

[betsy]

12 hours ago, cannuck said:

Have to agree with RtoL: we will live in a very different economic world in a few months.   The real question will be if there is ANY leadership with the brains and balls to seize the opportunity and rebuild the economy with value being added instead of returning to the phoney Casino Capitalist and drawers of water, huers of wood.  But: since Canada is notoriously short of such leadership, it will be the clusterfuck to end all clusterfucks - paid with another trillion in debt.

The aftermath.  It's scary.

Edited April 12, 2020 by betsy

[cannuck]

11 hours ago, cougar said:

I think we live in a very interesting time where the scams of capitalism can get exposed.  Whether this will happen , I have no idea, most likely not.

The "economy" is an engine that puts food on the table of regular people, gives them shelter and means of transportation, while letting some individuals amass what they think is real wealth - rights over huge properties, tons of gold, ridiculous bank accounts etc, etc.

Once COVID-19 disappears, we , the ants, will continue to destroy the environment at the highest pace possible to satisfy the madness of those few people running the Wold.

 

 

Capitalism is not in any way a "scam" of any kind, it is simply the use of private and/or public capital resources to run the economy, instead of state-owned control of the means of production (finance and monetary).   What IS the scam is what I call "Casino Capitalism" wherein the change of value of assets is used to redistribute wealth without the bother of having to add any value whatsoever.  That is 99% scam.   A Wall Street financier is no different from a government welfare programme: the wealth of the taxpayer is simply redistributed to the beneficiary with no value added.   There is ONE difference, though: on the Street most of the benefit goes into a very few hands.   What few seem to understand is that when the greed of the Street(s) must increase the money supply to fill financiers' pockets, the growth of that is a direct liability to the taxpayer.   The vast majority of that money being printed is NOT going into the taxpayers' hands, but it IS a residual inflationary force that will ultimately devalue (or even crash) the value of their everything.

[cougar]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

What IS the scam is what I call "Casino Capitalism" wherein the change of value of assets is used to redistribute wealth without the bother of having to add any value whatsoever.  That is 99% scam.  

You've identified one example.  Think about real estate.  I have a 52 year old house that increased its "value" by 100% in one year.  The assessment office would not even send an inspector as they know they are running a scam.   They inflate "values" to bring them into the stratosphere and then call it wealth.  No, not wealth; just a scam! 

[Right To Left]

15 hours ago, cougar said:

Absolutely.  But then think about all those people who want to go on a cruise ship to tell their friends that they are living the dream, traveling around the world, or those taking some girlfriend to impress her, or old folks who thought they have worked a lot all their lives to deserve being on a cruise.  None of them ever thinks about what this does to the environment, wildlife or to the lifestyle of other people.  (those living at the coast and having to put up with all noise and pollution come to mind).

I was surprised to see this story posted on the Guardian UK yesterday:

Revealed: 6,000 passengers on cruise ships despite coronavirus crisis

If the companies can be trusted for accurate information (dubious), they still let cruise liners set out after a March 15th deadline, when all of these ships were supposed to be heading back to port and discharging ALL passengers!  One of the ships being tracked....off the coast of Uruguay - South America, has over 60% of its passengers testing positive for Covid-19!  WTF are they doing and why were these ships allowed to set sail after March 15? 

So, people who go on cruise ships are obviously stupid and greedy (all it takes is offering a discounted price in front of them). When it comes to the crap...literally, from these luxury passenger ships, the typical passenger is probably similar to the railway sightseers of the 1880's, who took trains heading out to see "the wild west" and shoot some buffalo, like they read and heard about from the dime novels written about Buffalo Bill and other heroes of the west. So, some of the passengers brought or rented guns for special passenger cars that had open windows on one side to shoot and kill thousands of bison that were stampeded by the train and its horseback assistants to be mowed down by the thousands by the assholes on board the train...and left for dead out on the prairie....just so they could tell everyone later they went on a 'buffalo hunt!' A pox on all their houses....literally! 

Quote

 

I think we live in a very interesting time where the scams of capitalism can get exposed.  Whether this will happen , I have no idea, most likely not.

The "economy" is an engine that puts food on the table of regular people, gives them shelter and means of transportation, while letting some individuals amass what they think is real wealth - rights over huge properties, tons of gold, ridiculous bank accounts etc, etc.

Now that the economy has slowed down, the government will print money to give people , which would be the equivalent of taking the money from those useless fat accounts the rich people have.  Imagine they had their money stored in a warehouse and this warehouse burnt; then at the same time the government printed the same amount of money and gave it to the poor.  Who would even notice? (since the warehouse has not actually burnt and the rich still think they have the same buying power)

But then imagine for a moment that the money the rich had before the pandemic was equally worthless because it wasn't going to buy them the amount of food, services and materials at regular prices, since there are not enough available on the planet.  They simply ran a scam, keeping everyone in control and living for free, while laying hands on the best items and properties they set their eyes on.  After the pandemic, they will continue doing the same thing, they've lost a bit of "growth" - an increment in those overinflated accounts.  They have to swallow that to continue doing business as usual.

Once COVID-19 disappears, we , the ants, will continue to destroy the environment at the highest pace possible to satisfy the madness of those few people running the Wold.

 

I've talked about this elsewhere, but the rich fat parasites who feed off of working people are in line ahead of us grabbing the lion's share of the free money for themselves, and naturally the worst case is in the US, where almost nothing is left for the majority of people. 

I don't think it has to be this way! And, in the aftermath I hope people can create a system that doesn't feed the parasites anymore! Because events of the past month, shows these sociopath monopolists are not the JOB CREATORS....but instead are just useless parasites who are in line ahead of us at the government trough trying to grab all the goodies before everyone else!