The Coronavirus

[Argus]

Just now, Shady said:

And I agree that was the right thing to do at the time, because very little was known about the virus.  But a phased reopening of the economy while practicing mitigation and social distancing is perfectly appropriate.  High risk people can still self quarantine and resources can be focused on them.

I don't disagree with this. But it requires that the number of new cases start to go down, rather than up. It requires things like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer we don't have, and it requires mass testing and zealous tracing we're not doing.

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

But you don't have the background or education to properly evaluate those studies. Any more than I do.

Unless you see a study or something reported on a study that suits your view.

[-TSS-]

I'm glad here in Finland things haven't gone to the same level as they have in Britain.

In Britain people are only allowed to go out for shopping and outside shops people are treated like slaves being told to queue and keep two metres distance before being allowed into the shop.

Fair enough considering the circumstances but on top of that the police have started inspecting people's shopping whether this or that is really essential, which goes way out of line. How many people have the guts to tell the police-officer wanting to see their shopping to fuck off?

In the shops the corridors are one-way streets so you can only move forward. If you realise you forgot something you can't turn back and go and get it.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

I have not questioned the need of the quarantine duh...or the above...duh..

You pointed out there haven't been hospitals overrun with Covid19 victims in Canada as a defense against the statement of how deadly and dangerous this virus is. But there is no way to compare what the condition of hospitals would have been like without a quarantine. I suspect they'd have been as bad if not worse than Italy given our hospitals are generally at or near capacity on good days.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, Rue said:

The same reason you have not  seen this with cov 19. Provide the source you are referring to.

TV. Internet. Newspapers.  Day after day after day Rue. Where have you been with Lucy up in the sky?

Quote

I also suggest your perspective is bias. You want to find bodie piled up dead from viruses other  than covid 19 go look.

Where are they, you're the people saying they exist. Proof lies with the positive claimant. You don't teach that to your university students?  Recall you've indicated you're an educated man Rue.  You know I'm merely a high school drop-out so help me out here.

Just show me...10 stories from the last ten years about bodies piling up in trucks outside hospitals in New York.  Happens all the time or so we're being told here - year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year....             

 

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I don't disagree with this. But it requires that the number of new cases start to go down, rather than up. It requires things like masks, gloves and hand sanitizer we don't have, and it requires mass testing and zealous tracing we're not doing.

I mostly agree.  But you can’t wait for complete testing to reopen the economy.  Just like you can’t wait for a vaccine.  That’s why mitigation and social distancing are required until and even when testing is up to full capacity.

[Rue]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

But you don't have the background or education to properly evaluate those studies. Any more than I do. Which means listening to what the doctors say.

He is not arguing what any doctors said. Man can you try read what he and I and others are questioning. We are saying doctors warned after Sars  early detection and containment protocol not reactionary quarantine was more efficient. You and others think covid 19i s the first virus ever to present as a medical pandemic. You live in a world full of them. You only noticed this one because it impacts on you. Where were you with e bola or Zeka you could have cared less. Save your urban first world  panic. I have  been to clinics full of pus...the doctors, nurses, volunteers there..those are the ones I listen to...not some inconvenienced suburbanites.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Rue

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

Unless you see a study or something reported on a study that suits your view.

This is not a partisan exercise. I don't HAVE a view which is impacted by anything other than reality. I'm profoundly uneducated on medicine and health care and must defer to those who are not. No study is going to change.

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

TV. Internet. Newspapers.  Day after day after day Rue. Where have you been with Lucy up in the sky?

Where are they, you're the people saying they exist. Proof lies with the positive claimant. You don't teach that to your university students?  Recall you've indicated you're an educated man Rue.  You know I'm merely a high school drop-out so help me out here.

Just show me...10 stories from the last ten years about bodies piling up in trucks outside hospitals in New York.  Happens all the time or so we're being told here - year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year....             

 

What is your point exactly?

[Shady]

Just now, Argus said:

This is not a partisan exercise. I don't HAVE a view which is impacted by anything other than reality. I'm profoundly uneducated on medicine and health care and must defer to those who are not. No study is going to change.

You’re able to read the published results and conclusions of a study.  Anyone can.

[Argus]

Just now, Rue said:

He is not arguing what any doctors said. Man can you try read what he and I and others are questioning. We are saying doctors warned aftercare early detection and containment protocol not reactionary quarantine was more efficient.

But we didn't have early detection and containment, which required a quarantine. That's pretty much irrelevant at this point, right? Now doctors are saying the quarantine is absolutely necessary. Or are you going to disagree?

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

You’re able to read the published results and conclusions of a study.  Anyone can.

But I don't have the background to interpret those studies such that I would try to tell medical professionals - the ENTIRE medical profession -- that they're wrong. What is it you're suggesting? That the medical profession is conspiring to keep the economy closed when it doesn't need to be?

Edited April 18, 2020 by Argus

[Rue]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

TV. Internet. Newspapers.  Day after day after day Rue. Where have you been with Lucy up in the sky?

Where are they, you're the people saying they exist. Proof lies with the positive claimant. You don't teach that to your university students?  Recall you've indicated you're an educated man Rue.  You know I'm merely a high school drop-out so help me out here.

Just show me...10 stories from the last ten years about bodies piling up in trucks outside hospitals in New York.  Happens all the time or so we're being told here - year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year....             

 

So you have no idea how to go on the internet and see what is happening in refugee camps, third world countries?  Give it a rest. Save the wilful elitist blindness for someone else. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Rue

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

But I don't have the background to interpret those studies such that I would try to tell medical professionals - the ENTIRE medical profession -- that they're wrong. What is it you're suggesting? That the medical profession is conspiring to keep the economy closed when it doesn't need to be?

You don’t have to interpret anything.  The conclusion is the conclusion.  

[Shady]

I’m not blaming the medical community for solely focusing on the medical side of things.  But other things have to be considered as well.  That’s what some of you don’t seem to understand.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Shady said:

What is your point exactly?

That you idiots are completely filled with shit.

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

But I don't have the background to interpret those studies such that I would try to tell medical professionals - the ENTIRE medical profession -- that they're wrong. What is it you're suggesting? That the medical profession is conspiring to keep the economy closed when it doesn't need to be?

No he never said that. He said repeatedly, early detection and containment of those with the virus will make quarantine not as extensive neededcas it's now being used. He has said if  quarantine is used as the only method of containment  it will cause severe economic damage which will kill more than it claims to save.

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That you idiots are completely filled with shit.

There we go calm rational discussion.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Rue said:

Without proper early detection and containment procedures in place...quarantine was necessary as one of many crisis management processes.

Absolutely.  And the (seeming - no peer review) fact that far more people are affected than was previously thought (we did know that to some degree.  Given the amount of testing, how could that not be the case?  The 50 to 85 times more is surprising, sure) gives one hope (maybe I've already had it!) it's still no reason to compare this virus to the flu and act accordingly.  If the study is found to be accurate, then put the data in the mix and act accordingly. 

And as people can test positive, then test negative, then test positive again, who knows how good the numbers are anyway?  Should we really be letting people who have had the virus and now test negative out of quarantine?  Of course we should, but there is evidence that suggests otherwise.

Edited April 18, 2020 by bcsapper

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

No he never said that. He said repeatedly, early detection and containment of those with the virus will make quarantine not as extensive neededcas it's now being used. He has said if  quarantine is used as the only method of containment  it will cause severe economic damage which will kill more than it claims to save.

That isn't exactly a big secret. We can see that, and have seen that from the start, in Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand.

But all of that requires resources we lack, from labs (and the chemicals needed to run more tests) to the tests themselves, to the strict tracing of those who are found to have the virus, to the hospital PPE gear and to such basics as masks and hand sanitizers for the public.

[eyeball]

Just now, Rue said:

There we go calm rational discussion.

I had to laugh my ass off at a placard some MAGA hillbilly was waving in Michigan the other day...Have-wits gotta go!

[Rue]

52 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I'm glad here in Finland things haven't gone to the same level as they have in Britain.

In Britain people are only allowed to go out for shopping and outside shops people are treated like slaves being told to queue and keep two metres distance before being allowed into the shop.

Fair enough considering the circumstances but on top of that the police have started inspecting people's shopping whether this or that is really essential, which goes way out of line. How many people have the guts to tell the police-officer wanting to see their shopping to fuck off?

In the shops the corridors are one-way streets so you can only move forward. If you realise you forgot something you can't turn back and go and get it.

They are trying to stop hoarding I guess.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Rue

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That you idiots are completely filled with shit.

What intelligence.  Keep listening to your government overlords, you know, the ones you can’t trust because of lobbying.  They’ll tell you everything you need to know.  And disregard new science that tells us the virus is much more widespread than originally thought, therefore lowering the mortality rate.  Keep ignoring the points made about reopening with mitigation and social distancing, while high risk people remain in quarantine.  With resources directed to those groups specifically to keep them safe.  It takes less critical thinking from you. 

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, Rue said:

No he never said that. He said repeatedly, early detection and containment of those with the virus will make quarantine not as extensive neededcas it's now being used. He has said if  quarantine is used as the only method of containment  it will cause severe economic damage which will kill more than it claims to save.

Some people only hear what they want to hear.

[Rue]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

That isn't exactly a big secret. We can see that, and have seen that from the start, in Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand.

But all of that requires resources we lack, from labs (and the chemicals needed to run more tests) to the tests themselves, to the strict tracing of those who are found to have the virus, to the hospital PPE gear and to such basics as masks and hand sanitizers for the public.

We do not lack it. We chose to off source it to China et al. Could be we need a law requiring certain manufacturing and stockpiling of medical goods be done in Canada specifically for pandemic planning so we never again beg China of the US or anyone for it.