The Coronavirus

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Rue, I'm obsessing over the utter lack of any historical evidence within living memory of normal outbreaks of influenza swamping ER wards and striking so swiftly they causes bodies to pile up in hospital hallways and require mass graves to deal with the dead.   Year after year after year just like this year.

Please provide this or...I'm trying really hard to be polite here but pigheadedness is...you just want to take a shovel to it.

275,000 hospitalizations in the United States in 2009 due to H1N1.  But it wasn’t on the news everyday.  Regardless, ER rooms are swamped on a regular basis.  That’s why it takes 6 or 7 hour waits to see a doctor.  It doesn’t take much to make it worse.  You should go sometime and see how long you have to wait, without a pandemic going on.

[Shady]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I'm not the one comparing it to the flu you guys are.  You actually pride yourself on being full of shit don't you?

Science is your friend.

[Shady]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

Graphic demonstrating just exactly why that argument fails:   

 

[dialamah]

Just now, eyeball said:

Rue, I'm obsessing over the utter lack of any historical evidence within living memory of where normal outbreaks of influenza swamp ER wards and strike so swiftly they causes bodies to pile up in hospital hallways.   Year after year after year just like this year.

What?  You don't remember the refrigerator trucks used to house the dead/mass graves in New York last year or the year before or the year before that?  You missed the stories of seniors homes being abandoned by caretakers, and seniors left dying in their bed?   And every year, the mass mobilization of retired health care workers to help deal with the influx of sick people to hospital ?  Honestly, Eyeball, you just need to pay more attention to the news!  I'm sure with just a little effort, Rue or Shady or OftenWrong or someone can show you what you missed.

/s

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

I’m sorry you disagree with science, but anecdotal stories don’t discount actual medical studies.  It’s not apples to oranges because you’re comparing the flu, which has vaccines, to a virus that doesn’t.  Add to that the Coronavirus is more easily transmitted, which leads to more people infected and the extra pressure on ER rooms.  But that doesn’t mean it’s more deadly.  But keep bowing down to your government masters!  Be afraid!  The sky is falling!  Do what they say with no questions asked!

And you're comparing the results of a virus on an annual basis with no extraordinary controls to one that is completely new, has been around three months and has had very extraordinary attempts made at control.  Apples and oranges.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

What?  You don't remember the refrigerator trucks used to house the dead/mass graves in New York last year or the year before or the year before that?  You missed the stories of seniors homes being abandoned by caretakers, and seniors left dying in their bed?   And every year, the mass mobilization of retired health care workers to help deal with the influx of sick people to hospital ?  Honestly, Eyeball, you just need to pay more attention to the news!  I'm sure with just a little effort, Rue or Shady or OftenWrong or someone can show you what you missed.

/s

 

 

You really didn't need the /s.

[dialamah]

Just now, bcsapper said:

You really didn't need the /s.

You would think, but history suggests otherwise.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

275,000 hospitalizations in the United States in 2009 due to H1N1.  But it wasn’t on the news everyday.  Regardless, ER rooms are swamped on a regular basis.  That’s why it takes 6 or 7 hour waits to see a doctor.  It doesn’t take much to make it worse.  You should go sometime and see how long you have to wait, without a pandemic going on.

I have, many times over the years. Never saw any bodies piling up in trucks. Not once. How do you explain that Shady? 

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

And you're comparing the results of a virus on an annual basis with no extraordinary controls to one that is completely new, has been around three months and has had very extraordinary attempts made at control.  Apples and oranges.

 

 

[Shady]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I have, many times over the years. Never saw any bodies piling up in trucks. Not once. How do you explain that Shady? 

Society has a very low capacity for handling the deceased because it just doesn’t happen with much significance anymore.  But it doesn’t change facts 

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You would think, but history suggests otherwise.

Start paying attention to science, not emotion.

[Rue]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

And our evidence of swamped ER wards is where? Stories about traumatized front line health care workers including news reports of infected workers infecting families and dying might lend a little weight to your ridiculous case too.

Eye long before covid 19 hospitals in all major cities faced a situation where they have to call a special and close themselves dow. This can be caused by a quarantine due to z highly infectious toys disease discovered, overwhelming numbers from a fire, explosion, car crash, etc.

It's a fact. Because this current virus can be invisible and spread because of that the way to stop the spread was by early testing which was not in place. The fear of undetected cases leading to a surge in medical hospital entries has not happened because the majority of those with it never reported it and recovered from it. Of those requiring hospitalization 5he majority recovered and many were actually sent home to self isolate.

New York City is a unique situation. It is a country to itself with a huge no. of  people unreported and many who live in poor hygienic conditions. 

Italy and Span like Qubec have high numbers of senior homes.

However in Germany, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore ayyressivexearly testing enabled them to locate and isolate they..the have istancing and protocols, but no hospital backups they also did not shut everyone down.

We went for shut down due to no early warning. There is zero evidence this virus kills higher than any other. In fact the numbers show different from  reported cases which necessarily incorrectly inflate the death rate by not basing it on the true case rate.

Your reference to swamped emergency rooms comes from a t.v show. Which hospital was over run by Sars, or any other virus..

Edited April 18, 2020 by Rue

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Eye long before covid 19 hospitals in all major cities faced a situation where they have to call a special and close themselves dow. This can be caused by a quarantine due to z highly infectious toys disease discovered, overwhelming numbers from a fire, explosion, car crash, etc.

It's a fact.

Dying from infectious toys at a rate of hundreds and hundreds day after day after day.

Where's my goddamn shovel.

[Rue]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have, many times over the years. Never saw any bodies piling up in trucks. Not once. How do you explain that Shady? 

The same reason you have not  seen this with cov 19. Provide the source you are referring to. I also suggest your perspective is bias. You want to find bodie piled up dead from viruses other  than covid 19 go look. Your myopic response is caused on here and now proximity distortion. You think you see death in you immediate vision so you can not seexanthing other death to be able to put it in proper perspective

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Shady said:

 

Definitely apples and oranges then.  It's difficult to see what anyone should have done differently.  Except maybe shut down travel a lot quicker, but who knew at the time?

Maybe they are all going to get it again.

Edited April 18, 2020 by bcsapper

[Rue]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Dying from infectious toys at a rate of hundreds and hundreds day after day after day.

Where's my goddamn shovel.

Where is your god damn common sense. Your example has nothing remotely to do what I said. You are so angry you make some half passed irresponsible analogy to product liability cases which clearly you do not get can be properly predicted, tracked and blocked from getting into the hands of the public zndvic need be recalled...all proving  the point you ridicule and that is risk management to prevent liability comes from early warning protocols.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Actually the same is being asked now about this virus. There are no large amounts of widespread over run hospitals in Canada.

BECAUSE we closed everything down. Duh.

[Argus]

26 minutes ago, Shady said:

I’m sorry you disagree with science, but anecdotal stories don’t discount actual medical studies.  It’s not apples to oranges because you’re comparing the flu, which has vaccines, to a virus that doesn’t.  Add to that the Coronavirus is more easily transmitted, which leads to more people infected and the extra pressure on ER rooms.  But that doesn’t mean it’s more deadly.

And your medical degree comes from where, Dr. Shady? Because you're basically saying all the doctors and medical and health institutions are wrong based on some stuff you read on the internet.

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

And your medical degree comes from where, Dr. Shady? Because you're basically saying all the doctors and medical and health institutions are wrong based on some stuff you read on the internet.

No on actual medical studies.

[Argus]

9 minutes ago, Rue said:

The same reason you have not  seen this with cov 19. Provide the source you are referring to.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/fema-deploys-refrigerator-trucks-to-serve-as-morgues-in-new-york-city-1.4881269

https://talentrecap.com/scary-footage-of-dead-bodies-stored-in-refrigerator-truck-amid-coronavirus/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/where-will-the-bodies-go-morgues-plan-as-virus-grows

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3077187/coronavirus-italys-dead-overwhelm-morgues-toll-tops-8000

https://globalnews.ca/news/6778532/coronavirus-morgues-bodies-deaths/

 

[Rue]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Definitely apples and oranges then.  It's difficult to see what anyone should have done differently.

Without proper early detection and containment procedures in place...quarantine was necessary as one of many crisis management processes.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

No on actual medical studies.

But you don't have the background or education to properly evaluate those studies. Any more than I do. Which means listening to what the doctors say.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Argus

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

BECAUSE we closed everything down. Duh.

And I agree that was the right thing to do at the time, because very little was known about the virus.  But a phased reopening of the economy while practicing mitigation and social distancing is perfectly appropriate.  High risk people can still self quarantine and resources can be focused on them.

[Rue]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

BECAUSE we closed everything down. Duh.

I have not questioned the need of the quarantine duh...or the above...duh..

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

We went for shut down due to no early warning. There is zero evidence this virus kills higher than any other. In fact the numbers show different from  reported cases which necessarily incorrectlyb8nflate the death rate by not basing it on the true case rate.

Whether that's true or not is still up in the air:  the infection rate may well be higher than we think because so many people are asymptomatic.  On the other hand, if it's just those people haven't yet got sick, then what?  The virus is still not well enough understood to make any absolute claims, such as you've tried to make here.  There's just not enough evidence either way and so I support more caution rather than less. 

In the meantime, the facts demonstrate that there is enough infection, enough serious illness and enough deaths that health systems are overwhelmed in a way that does not happen with influenza.  As long as that's true, the actual death rate is irrelevant, don't you think?   Arguing that its "no worse than the flu" because we don't know the actual infection rate against daily reports demonstrating that hospitals around the world have been completely overwhelmed just doesn't work. 

If, ultimately, the infection rate is the same as, or less than the flu than the Covid virus will settle into a regular part of our life - as flu has.  But right now, that's not the situation; right now, we've been hit by a virus for which we have no immunity and right now, the victims are overwhelming health services (not so much in Canada, thank goodness, but elsewhere in the world).