The Mob of Ignorance.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Prostitutes - transgender or not - are entitled to police protection and legal action against people who assault them.

Who even has to be told that?!! 

Prostitutes tend to hang around some very unsavoury people and use a lot of drugs, and thus get involved in a lot of violence.

Who even has to be told that!?

[Argus]

53 minutes ago, scribblet said:

In your frenzied imagination the speaker and her supporters are 'alt right hate groups' but you are free to categorize every day people who oppose the oppression of real/biological women, because you know, free speech for you but not for others.

Calling Meghan Murphy alt-right is ludicrous. She isn't even conservative. She's always been over on the Left of the political spectrum and very much typical of the feminist radical with deep suspicion of men.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

Only the Christian homophobes were violent.

Extremists always claim only the other side is violent. But we've seen enough violence from your ilk to know the violence comes mainly from the far left.

2 hours ago, jacee said:

Transgender and other LGBTQ people defended themselves and others by blocking the violent attacks of the Christian homophobes.

Translation. They attacked the anti-pride people and chased them away.

2 hours ago, jacee said:

I think you were seen there among the homophobes, 'Argus'. You're not the type to participate in the violence, though. You're the type who stays safely out of the way while inciting other people to commit violent hate crimes.

Yeah, yeah. Your entire time on this site has been nothing more than spewing violent hatred for everyone not on the far Left with you. If anyone is going to don a  balaclava and attack little old ladies in walkers it's the likes of you.

[Argus]

36 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

When the Roman Empire came under Christian rule, all male homosexual activity was increasingly repressed, often on pain of death.^[11] In 342 CE, the Christian emperors Constantius and Constans declared same-sex marriage to be illegal.^[12] Shortly after, in the year 390 CE, emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be publicly burned alive.

Yes, but that was two thousand years ago. The problem is that while the Christian churches have reformed the Muslims have not. They STILL do that stuff today.

[jacee]

40 minutes ago, scribblet said:

In your frenzied imagination the speaker and her supporters are 'alt right hate groups' but you are free to categorize every day people who oppose the oppression of real/biological women, because you know, free speech for you but not for others.

    

This was the OP, with no link: 

Argus:  So Meghan Murphy gave a talk at a Toronto Library yesterday. And in this talk she said nothing more than 90% of Canadians wouldn't fully agree with. Men are men. Women are women. If you have a penis you're a man.

That is Argus inciting hatred against Trans people. If that's what Megan Murphy was saying, then she is too. 

I was responding to Argus, so I'll continue clarifying on that basis.

No one is saying that a transgender person should be discriminated against or that it's okay for them to be attacked etc.  it is not.

Argus is saying that it's ok if Transgender people are discriminated against, because they don't really exist: It's pretense. He also says it's ok if Transgender and other prostitutes are violently assaulted: It's their fault for being prostitutes. 

There is a big difference between those who really do struggle with gender dysphoria  and aggressive LGBT etc..... activists.

So it's ok to struggle alone in silence, but not ok to speak out? 

In all of this, society is losing sight of women's rights and their spaces, and that's what Murphy is about - protecting women who are finding their services are being lessened or neutralized.

The issue that needs to be addressed is appropriate safe spaces and services for Trans people.

That does not require Megan Murphy to partner with the far-right homo/transphobes like Argus in denying, discriminating against or inciting and promoting hatred against Trans people, as he did in the OP. 

Argus' thread is purely a transphobic hate thread. He's claiming Megan Murphy as such, and I am responding to him as such.

There is a sensible discussion to be had, but not here. 

[jacee]

31 minutes ago, Rue said:

 

What is  being discussed is not simply or solely transgendered individuals protesting injustice

According to you, they're only allowed to be quietly transgendered, not to speak out publicly about injustice. 

[Argus]

Just now, jacee said:

According to you, they're only allowed to be quietly transgendered, not to speak out publicly about injustice. 

You mean like the 'injustice' of not hiring men who call themselves women to work at rape crisis centres?

[jacee]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yes, but that was two thousand years ago. The problem is that while the Christian churches have reformed the Muslims have not. They STILL do that stuff today.

So suddenly homophobic and transphobic you are defending homosexuality?  Lol 

It is no secret that many Muslim families have immigrated to Canada to protect LGBTQ family members from fanatical and violent extremists who would do them harm. 

But Canada is not entirely safe from that either: Christian churches haven't all reformed. Some still try to 'convert' homosexuals and they send violent homophobic Christians to disrupt and attack Pride Fests. And I suspect you are one of them.

Certainly, you have clearly indicated in this thread that it would be your preference to overturn the law that recognizes Trans rights to freedom from discrimination.

Now suddenly you're a big LGBTQ supporter?  Lol

You're a very conflicted person. Your various prejudices are battling within you. Lol 

Edited November 2, 2019 by jacee

[Cannucklehead]

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yes, but that was two thousand years ago. The problem is that while the Christian churches have reformed the Muslims have not. They STILL do that stuff today.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/polish-archbishop-compares-lgbt-movement-to-communist-regime-29566

Only reason the church does not continue with their laws is because of the laws in most countries that forbid it.  

 

Pope Benedict XVI, then the leader of the roman catholic church stated that "protecting" humanity from homosexuality was just as important as saving the world from climate change and that all relationships beyond traditional heterosexual ones are a "destruction of God's work."

The problem is the quotes from the bible that state:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

— Levictus 18:22

And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

— Levictus 20:13

Put to death by whom?  Leave it to God?  

 

I think that's why they took matters in their own hands.  

[jacee]

27 minutes ago, Argus said:

You mean like the 'injustice' of not hiring men who call themselves women to work at rape crisis centres?

Link? 

Your claims are often figments of your imagination, so evidence is required. 

[scribblet]

23 minutes ago, jacee said:

Link? 

Your claims are often figments of your imagination, so evidence is required. 

The only figments of imagination are yours.   The name is Kimberley Jackson of Vancouver,  her case was dismissed, can't post a link on a tablet.  

Edited November 2, 2019 by scribblet

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

This was the OP, with no link:

That is Argus inciting hatred against Trans people. If that's what Megan Murphy was saying, then she is too. 

I was responding to Argus, so I'll continue clarifying on that basis

That does not require Megan Murphy to partner with the far-right homo/transphobes like Argus in denying, discriminating against or inciting and promoting hatred against Trans people, as he did in the OP. 

Argus' thread is purely a transphobic hate thread. He's claiming Megan Murphy as such, and I am responding to him as such.

There is a sensible discussion to be had, but not here. 

Murphy is not partnering with the "far right" that's your misinformed opinion only, neither is it hate to speak out in favour of women who are gradually losing their safe spaces and societal rights, not to mention losing their places in sports.   Obviously anyone disagreeing with you will be given a demeaning label.  actually your speech pretty much can be defined as hate.

[Argus]

50 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/polish-archbishop-compares-lgbt-movement-to-communist-regime-29566

Only reason the church does not continue with their laws is because of the laws in most countries that forbid it.  

Yes. Such a move away from church laws began a couple of hundred years ago in the Christian world. Again, my point is that never happened in the Muslim world.

None of the mainstream Christian churches call for criminalizing homosexuality today, including the Catholics. All the mainstream Muslim clerics, however, agree that homosexuality should be criminalized, and many believe it should draw the death penalty.

[Argus]

54 minutes ago, jacee said:

So suddenly homophobic and transphobic you are defending homosexuality?  Lol 

It's only your extremism which labels me as homophobic and 'transphobic'.

54 minutes ago, jacee said:

It is no secret that many Muslim families have immigrated to Canada to protect LGBTQ family members from fanatical and violent extremists who would do them harm. 

Really? I doubt that's anything like a substantial portion of the hundred thousand Muslim immigrants we get each year. And as most of those immigrants are coming from societies which are extremely homophobic they've brought those views with them.

54 minutes ago, jacee said:

Certainly, you have clearly indicated in this thread that it would be your preference to overturn the law that recognizes Trans rights to freedom from discrimination.

A law which requires people to address others as those others choose is a violation of freedom of speech. In a sane world it would be struck down by the courts, but our courts are filled with social justice types who have shown themselves to have little interest in actual law or justice.

[Yzermandius19]

If no one wanted to hear them, then the far left wouldn't have to show up to make sure no one can hear them. The entire reason the far left shows up is that people want to hear them and they want to prevent that, so they can maintain the delusion that no one wants to hear them. If no one wanted to hear them, no one would show up.

Just because the far left doesn't want to hear them doesn't mean everyone else thinks like the far left on the matter, stop projecting your extremist views on everyone else jacee, you live in a bubble. Several people on this forum have indicated that they don't want people booed off the stage, that you want booed off the stage, so clearly your view that no one wants to hear them is all in your head. Then of course you move the goalposts, that the only people who want to hear them are people you don't like anyway, so no free speech for people they want to hear, and only free speech for people that you want to hear.

The right is not allowed any public events to hear people speak that they agree with, only the far left is allowed that, and if any protesters you don't like happen to show up they need to be forcibly kept out, while if the right try to keep out left wing protesters it's oppression. Just admit it, jacee, you only want free speech for those who you agree with and want to silence those you disagree with, and you come up with lame justifications to pretend that when your side does it, it's totally cool, but when the right does it, it's only because they are filled with hate and need to be stopped.

Blatant double standards are totally acceptable to jacee. If jacee thinks the cause is just, those with the "just cause" are allowed to do whatever they want, and if jacee thinks the cause isn't just, than those without a "just cause" have no rights and need to suppressed.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Goddess]

On 11/2/2019 at 1:57 PM, jacee said:

many Muslim families have immigrated to Canada to protect LGBTQ family members from fanatical and violent extremists

I googled this claim and have not found one thing that says "many" Muslims immigrate to Canada to protect gay relatives. Or even "any".

I request a cite for this claim.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Goddess

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I googled this claim and have not found one thing that says "many" Muslims immigrate to Canada to protect gay relatives. Or even "any".

I request a cite for this claim.

I could probably see LGBTQ muslims immigrating to Canada to protect themselves from fanatical and violent families.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

I could probably see LGBTQ muslims immigrating to Canada to protect themselves from fanatical and violent families.

I could too, except that most of Canada's  Muslim immigrants are not fleeing anti-gay sentiments, they are fleeing war and poverty.  They're not coming here because they find our values preferable.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

I could too, except that most of Canada's  Muslim immigrants are not fleeing anti-gay sentiments, they are fleeing war and poverty.  They're not coming here because they find our values preferable.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html

 

 

Well, sure, if I was a gay Muslim I'd keep it to myself too.

[Argus]

Jonathan Kay points out the blinding hypocrisy and violent fanaticism of progressives as they adopt intersectionality and identity politics as their new religion.

It may seem odd to see a progressive go on record to yatta-yatta-yatta racism in this way. (JY has referred to Canadians with South Asian heritage as “turban f—–s” who “should not be allowed in Canada.”) But it is not so shocking as it once was: One of the unsettling aspects of progressive cultism is that its acolytes see their cause as so morally urgent that it justifies tactics that would horrify them if they were employed by the other side.

This is most evident in the debate over trans rights, which now features regular scenes of angry woke men mansplaining gender to feminists. Online, trans-rights extremism has unleashed open season on feminists and lesbians, with some of the charming tag lines being “Let me know if ur a TERF (trans-exclusive radical feminist) so I can beat the s–t out of you,” “Burn them all,” and “S–k my girl-c–k.” At the anti-Meghan Murphy protest in Vancouver on Saturday, a woman carried a mock guillotine emblazoned with the words “Step Right Up TERFs!” When you’re so woke that you forget how to spell “MeToo,” and killing women becomes a punch line.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jonathan-kay-what-to-make-of-racism-sexism-and-homophobia-from-the-same-people-lecturing-us-about-bigotry

[jacee]

On 11/4/2019 at 12:04 PM, Goddess said:

I googled this claim and have not found one thing that says "many" Muslims immigrate to Canada to protect gay relatives. Or even "any".

I request a cite for this claim.

I became aware through one family's story. Few may go public because of the ongoing stigma within Islam. Persecution based on sexual orientation, gender identity and expression is a valid criterion for seeking asylum in Canada. However, there likely wouldn't be any public stats on a particular type of persecution, but the issue is common enough that there are organizations to assist LGBTQ Muslims.

http://www.the519.org/programs/salaam

https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/about-us

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/affirming-mosques-help-gay-muslims-reconcile-faith-sexuality-n988151

And media discussions:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/gay-muslims/

And some mosques:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/affirming-mosques-help-gay-muslims-reconcile-faith-sexuality-n988151

Edited November 9, 2019 by jacee

[Goddess]

On 11/9/2019 at 12:56 PM, jacee said:

I became aware through one family's story. Few may go public because of the ongoing stigma within Islam. Persecution based on sexual orientation, gender identity and expression is a valid criterion for seeking asylum in Canada. However, there likely wouldn't be any public stats on a particular type of persecution, but the issue is common enough that there are organizations to assist LGBTQ Muslims.

http://www.the519.org/programs/salaam

https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/about-us

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/affirming-mosques-help-gay-muslims-reconcile-faith-sexuality-n988151

And media discussions:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/gay-muslims/

And some mosques:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/affirming-mosques-help-gay-muslims-reconcile-faith-sexuality-n988151

None of those cites support your contention that "many" Muslims move to Canada to protect gay relatives.  Your cites only talk about organizations which help gay Muslims - after they get here, which is great, but none of these cites support your previous claim.

Quote

Few may go public because of the ongoing stigma within Islam.

What "ongoing stigma within Islam" are you talking about?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Goddess

[jacee]

24 minutes ago, Goddess said:

None of those cites support your contention that "many" Muslims move to Canada to protect gay relatives.  Your cites only talk about organizations which help gay Muslims - after they get here, which is great, but none of these cites support your previous claim.

What "ongoing stigma within Islam" are you talking about?

As I said, I became aware through one family's story, and they referenced "many" others. However, homosexuality is controversial in their communities, not spoken of much, so no, you won't find it discussed openly.

Certainly, Canada is home to more progressive Muslims who fled the extremists. I don't think that's a secret. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by jacee

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, jacee said:

I became aware through one family's story, and they referenced "many" others.

OK.  So it's a personal anecdote, not actually based on any facts.

3 minutes ago, jacee said:

homosexuality is controversial in their communities,

Haha, "controversial".  Bit of an understatement.

Always odd to me when people want anti-gay sentiment coming from other communities dealt with harshly, but handle Islam's anti-gay stance with kid gloves.  

[Goddess]

29 minutes ago, jacee said:

Certainly, Canada is home to more progressive Muslims who fled the extremists. I don't think that's a secret. 

I see you added this part later.  If Islam's teachings and behaviours were even remotely gay-friendly, I might be inclined to believe you.  But it is actually very far away from being a gay-friendly religion.  So yes, I think it is a very big "secret" that Islam loves, accepts and tolerates the LGBQT+ community.  Apparently a secret known only to you.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Goddess