Climate Cultists

[scribblet]

Not any options worth considering and, who has newspapers around, if they are around in the future. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Toilet paper was only "invented" for commercial use in 1857.  Before that we used newspaper, pages from books and magazines, leaves, grass, ferns, corn cobs, maize, fruit skins, seashells, stone, clay, sand, snow, water.  Europeans used their hand -Islamic cultures used their left hand.  

There are lots of options, if toilet paper ever does become outlawed.  

Source: toiletpaperhistory.net.

I remember sharing a tin of pineapple chunks with a bunch of Muslims in Oman once.  I forgot the custom, and used my left hand, and I got to keep the rest of the tin to myself.  It was over 40 years ago, and I still get embarrassed when I think about it.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I remember sharing a tin of pineapple chunks with a bunch of Muslims in Oman once.  I forgot the custom, and used my left hand, and I got to keep the rest of the tin to myself.  It was over 40 years ago, and I still get embarrassed when I think about it.

 

I recall having to share the ONE bathtub per floor at the Regent Palace...no shower...let's hope the previous bather didn't muck things-up too badly...or worse...was still in the tub.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I recall having to share the ONE bathtub per floor at the Regent Palace...no shower...let's hope the previous bather didn't muck things-up too badly...or worse...was still in the tub.

 

You were young, I assume.  I couldn't do that now.  I won't even go camping if it means sharing a toilet and a shower with the plebs.

[Argus]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:36 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Isn't the core problem that we have lost the ideals of sacrifice, compromise, and morality. Maybe it's the death of religion.

More like the death of intelligence. Two thirds of CO2 emissions come from the third world. That's also where most of the increase is coming from. Yet the cult of Greta has nothing to say about them. No agreement binds them to limiting, much less lowering their emissions. Instead the Greta cultists browbeat westerners to cut back on their heating  and eating while 900 new coal plants are being built by developing countries.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Instead of blaming others, especially other groups that are strawmen why not look at yourself.

Note that I said 'we'

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

On 1/3/2020 at 4:36 PM, bcsapper said:

You were young, I assume.  I couldn't do that now.  I won't even go camping if it means sharing a toilet and a shower with the plebs.

What?? Privilege or what!  Do you know how to use a manual can opener?

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What?? Privilege or what!  Do you know how to use a manual can opener?

Age related queasiness. 

Cans I can handle.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

More like the death of intelligence. Two thirds of CO2 emissions come from the third world. That's also where most of the increase is coming from. 

Why do you continue to ignore the effect of wealth and consumerisn on global warming?  Western countries, per capita, create ghg emissions at a significantly higher rate than developing countries -   Per capita, Western countries do more harm than developing countries.  Demanding that the poorest and least able countries reduce aggregate CO2 emissions so that you, personally don't have to do anything is beyond selfish and entitled.     The people who most damage the environment come from the richest countries.  Why should you be able to support emissions of 15T per year, and demand that an Indian or Asian person - who support 1.7T and 7.5T each per year, reduce their emissions before you should have to do anything.  

Emissions per capita and aggregate, by country

Interesting comments, too.  Especially the one about farts in an elevator.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Instead the Greta cultists browbeat westerners to cut back on their heating  and eating while 

Seriously?  Suggesting actions one could take to reduce their personal impact is "browbeating"?  What kind of snowflake are you?

The only measure I see being actually "forced" on anyone are carbon taxes.  Meat eating, reducing the use of plastic, using smaller, more fuel efficent vehicles and transit, etc - those kinds of things aren't being forced on us, yet.  

In 10 or 20 years, when those currently voluntary things are being forced, you'll be among those whining about how the (Liberal) governments didn't do enough, bemoaning the lack of political will that led us into this, conveniently forgetting you own refusal to accept any reduction in your lifestyle and shifting blame and responsibility to someone else.

If you are still alive, that is.  

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 Demanding that the poorest and least able countries reduce aggregate CO2 emissions so that you, personally don't have to do anything is beyond selfish and entitled.   

Another argument I have seen is that since Canada has so many trees we shouldn't have to reduce any...

[Argus]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Why do you continue to ignore the effect of wealth and consumerisn on global warming?  Western countries, per capita, create ghg emissions at a significantly higher rate than developing countries -

Which is pointless information unless you want to simply guilt people for being successful. Westerners produce more per capita because we're richer. But at least we're trying to cut back. The developing world is instead racing to catch up, pouring out CO2 at greater and greater rates. The cuts we can make now in the West are incremental and are outweighed by all those hundreds of new coal plants and the expanding industries and middle classes of the developing world clamoring for air conditioning and big screen TVs.

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Seriously?  Suggesting actions one could take to reduce their personal impact is "browbeating"?  What kind of snowflake are you?

LOL. Yes, just gentle suggestions! LOL. No protests blocking roads. No shrill guiltmongering. No threats and sneers and derision! No deplatforming! No muttering about prison for 'deniers'. Just gentle suggestions!

Quote

In 10 or 20 years, when those currently voluntary things are being forced, you'll be among those whining about how the (Liberal) governments didn't do enough, bemoaning the lack of political will that led us into this,

That's not gonna happen. And it's all pretty pointless anyway. It's not going to improve the global warming picture. It's not going to reduce global warming. There is nothing this country can do which is going to have any impact on global warming, particularly not while simpering liberals exempt the developing world which produces two thirds of emissions. Why isn't lil Gertie in Beijing or New Dehli or Jakarta raging at them to stop building coal plants?

Edited January 5, 2020 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

Keep adding billions to the population and nothing one does matters one bit.

What's worse...too many already.

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Why isn't lil Gertie in Beijing or New Dehli or Jakarta raging at them to stop building coal plants?

Because even a 16-year-old is smarter than a middle-aged white conservative and understands that the people who led us here should be held responsible for leading us out.

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Keep adding billions to the population and nothing one does matters one bit.

What's worse...too many already.

So give up, good on ya.  

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Because even a 16-year-old is smarter than a middle-aged white conservative and understands that the people who led us here should be held responsible for leading us out.

So the people who are pumping out 2/rds of the CO2 and are building hundreds of coal plants needn't do anything, huh? That's just the kind of moronic belief which makes everyone sane laught at the Left.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Because even a 16-year-old is smarter than a middle-aged white conservative and understands that the people who led us here should be held responsible for leading us out.

That's not smart, it's fair.  And fair is not going to do the job, unfortunately.  It's too bad, but it's the way it is.

The refusal to accept such as fact is the reason we are in so deep, and the reason we are not getting out.

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

So give up, good on ya.  

 

Okay...how are you going to reduce greenhouse gases while increasing the population to 10 billion?

And go...

[dialamah]

12 hours ago, Argus said:

So the people who are pumping out 2/rds of the CO2 and are building hundreds of coal plants needn't do anything, huh? That's just the kind of moronic belief which makes everyone sane laught at the Left.

Since when does someone else's lack of action justify your own?  Isn't it the conservative whinge that people don't "take responsibility"?  So show the way, and take some.

Anyway, India is already doing their part, one of three countries who've implemented policies compatible with keeping global warming below two degrees Celsius.  China, this year, will implement the world's most ambitious carbon trading program, and is already world leader in using renewable energy, by a factor of 2 to 1.  In 2014, China committed to peak CO2 emissions in 2030, but due to its policies and progress, it is expected to peak in early 2000s.  China is doing its part.**

You know who isn't doing their part?  Canada.  If we followed the lead of places like China and India, we'd be part of the solution instead of star laggards.  But we have too many people - like you - willing to actively speak and work against doing our part.  Who cry about "other countries" having to make first moves, clearly oblivious to what these other countries are actually doing.  We have too many politicians who pander to the whining and entitlement of people like you "for votes".  Those who rail against debt being passed to our grandchildren are only too content to allow an uninhabitable world being passed down to them, so they aren't inconvenienced by carbon tax, protesters, less meat on their plate.  

**Source, "Guide to Chinese Climate Policy 2019". ( PDF, 169 pages detailing histororical and current state of Chinese energy use, policies and implementation of climate change mitigation policies).

[scribblet]

13 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Keep adding billions to the population and nothing one does matters one bit.

What's worse...too many already.

A million more carbon footprints for Canada coming by 2020, this year - what global warming

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-canada-2018-1.4371146

[Argus]

26 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Since when does someone else's lack of action justify your own? 

What you are asking, to put it in its proper context is "Why should we not do this incredibly complicated and expensive thing even though it will have no affect on anything?"

Which is an inane question only those on the Left would even contemplate asking. You want to do it so you can feel virtuous and noble. The fact it will have no impact is, to you, irrelevant.

26 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Anyway, India is already doing their part, one of three countries who've implemented policies compatible with keeping global warming below two degrees Celsius.  China, this year, will implement the world's most ambitious carbon trading program

Both of them are building coal plants as fast as they can. And their CO2 emissions continue to rise and they have no plan to remedy that any time in the near future as they respond to the need for more power by their growing middle classes.

 

 

[dialamah]

47 minutes ago, Argus said:

Both of them are building coal plants as fast as they can. And their CO2 emissions continue to rise and they have no plan to remedy that any time in the near future as they respond to the need for more power by their growing middle classes.

So?  They are both ahead of Canada in terms of effectively implementing policies addressing climate change.  The "new" coal plants in China will also be replacing the old inefficient ones.  That is progress, in the same way Canada building safer pipelines to transport our oil to local markets would be progress as opposed to eliminating pipelines and importing oil from the Middle East.

47 minutes ago, Argus said:

Why should we not do this incredibly complicated and expensive thing even though it will have no affect on anything?"

The most expensive option is doing nothing.  The more we do now, the less expensive it will be over the longer term. 

What is complicated about a carbon tax, which is proven to reduce emissions and supported by economists as most efficient and least expensive?  What is complicated or expensive about eating less meat?  Taking transit?  Reducing/eliminating your use of plastic?  Buying less stuff, especially from China?   Just what are you willing to do or support?

[dialamah]

The cost of climate change is already affecting us personally.  Home insurance rates in Canada are rising due to aging infrastructure combined with more frequent and more severe weather events.  In the mid-2000s, Canadian insurance companies could expect to pay out $400 million in a year; in 2018, they paid out $1.5 billion.  Reinsurers are looking at the rising costs of severe weather events, particularly in North America, and ways to reduce their risk. 

Climate change is upending the home insurance industry. And it’s going to cost you.

Fact check: Climate change is making insurance more expensive — but it’s not the only factor

Munich Re, world’s largest reinsurance firm, warns premium rises could become social issue

Climate Change Is Hitting the Insurance Industry Hard. Here’s How Swiss Re Is Adapting

[Argus]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:09 AM, dialamah said:

So?  They are both ahead of Canada in terms of effectively implementing policies addressing climate change. 

Your attitude seems to be that if a country makes pleasing gestures towards appeasing your climate change fears, they can pretty much do anything they want. As I wrote earlier, reality does not seem to have a part in your beliefs.

On 1/6/2020 at 11:09 AM, dialamah said:

The "new" coal plants in China will also be replacing the old inefficient ones. 

The new coal plants in China are increasing CO2 emissions. As are the new coal plants China is financing and helping build throughout Asia.

On 1/6/2020 at 11:09 AM, dialamah said:

The most expensive option is doing nothing.  The more we do now, the less expensive it will be over the longer term. 

I didn't say we should do nothing. I said we ought to be studying the likely impact of the inevitable warming and planning for it and perhaps relocating people from flood plains or building dykes against floods, or laying pipe for water to alleviate drought, or improving building codes. Doing nothing is what you seem to be advocating.

On 1/6/2020 at 11:09 AM, dialamah said:

What is complicated about a carbon tax, which is proven to reduce emissions

And yet, emissions are not being reduced. They are being increased.