How do we force immigrants to assimilate?

[Machjo]

19 hours ago, Argus said:

Are you done blubbering yet about the real or imagined injustices of the past?

We don't need tough measures. All we need is to be careful about who we let in. No welfare. No pogey. Work or leave. And after say five years, if you haven't developed a level of assimilation then you leave as a failed immigrant and we'll try someone else.

And who defines assimilation? Being financially self-supporting? Being married to a Canadian? Or do you mean something else? Heck, even English, French, and Inuit Canadians often don't share a common language. Even our MPs communicate through earphones like UN ambassadors. So if you mean linguistically or culturally, even our MPs have failed to assimilate into a common culture!

[Machjo]

17 hours ago, paxamericana said:

There's a running joke with the Islamic fundamental, there's really only one gender, Men and property. 

Have you ever met a Muslim woman? Some are professional independent women.

[Dougie93]

I personally refuse to assimilate with the priggish Victorian nanny prohibitionist state.

Oh, say, does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave?

In the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Rangers, lead the way, here we go, stand up hook up shuffle to the door, jump right out and count to four . . .

 

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

I think Wes' s points was when government did not provide as much assistance to immigrants which all of Canada is really, people could not rely on government, and had no choice but to swim and sink, so we need to know which government services have gone too far in stripping people of feeling they have any need to change.

Perhaps that was Wes's point, but since  immigrants get the *same* (or sometimes less) benefits as people born in this country, and since many people in this country do not think our social support system does enough for those born here, how would we justify reducing support to refugees/immigrants?  Is there an upside to reducing social support systems so that even more people/families/seniors are homeless and desperate?  

In any case, immigrant unemployment runs at 6.4%, 1.4% more than the unemployment among people born in Canada as a whole.   Clearly, most immigrants gain employment, just as most Canadians gain employment.    

The argument that "immigrants come to Canada because they are lazy, don't want to work and only want to collect because our social support system is so generous" is simply not accurate.  Certainly, some immigrants will 'take advantage', just as some people born here 'take advantage'.  However, most people - born here or not - want to work and provide for themselves and their families.

Edited May 15, 2019 by dialamah

[WestCanMan]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:18 AM, Dougie93 said:

Seem to me all the entrepreneurs in Canada are immigrants, the immigrants are the business class, native born Canadians are the ones who are raised to be infatilized losers who expect a government make work job for life.

The people who are entrepreneurs have obviously assimilated. No one said that "no immigrants assimilate". It's just a matter of having a system where it's a priority for people to do it.

[Dougie93]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

The people who are entrepreneurs have obviously assimilated. No one said that "no immigrants assimilate". It's just a matter of having a system where it's a priority for people to do it.

I don't assimilate, why would I try to force someone else to assimilate to a fake country run by quasi-communist nanny police staters?

I'll stand with my Creator and the Declaration of Independence preamble, Canadian Cultural Protectorate ain't never gonna assimilate me.

[Machjo]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps that was Wes's point, but since  immigrants get the *same* (or sometimes less) benefits as people born in this country, and since many people in this country do not think our social support system does enough for those born here, how would we justify reducing support to refugees/immigrants?  Is there an upside to reducing social support systems so that even more people/families/seniors are homeless and desperate?  

In any case, immigrant unemployment runs at 6.4%, 1.4% more than the unemployment among people born in Canada as a whole.   Clearly, most immigrants gain employment, just as most Canadians gain employment.    

The argument that "immigrants come to Canada because they are lazy, don't want to work and only want to collect because our social support system is so generous" is simply not accurate.  Certainly, some immigrants will 'take advantage', just as some people born here 'take advantage'.  However, most people - born here or not - want to work and provide for themselves and their families.

I'd imagine too that a person who'd rather 'take advantage' of such a meagre existence probably suffers depression or some other mental-health problem. Social assistance is not that generous for the most part as far as I understand.

[Dougie93]

You wanna have sob story government handouts, you're gonna have to hand them out to everybody, I take advantage of Canada everyday, I just don't bother owning TSX dogs with fleas.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Dougie93

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, Machjo said:

I'd imagine too that a person who'd rather 'take advantage' of such a meagre existence probably suffers depression or some other mental-health problem. Social assistance is not that generous for the most part as far as I understand.

In BC, social assistance won't even get you a place to live.  Disability is slightly better, but not "easy living" by any stretch.  

[Dougie93]

What about all them Maritimers who scam the dole?   We gonna kick the Nova Scotia Trailer Park Boys out too?

[Dougie93]

What about them Supply Management cartels who scam you all day everyday?   Where we sending them to? Somalia?

[Dougie93]

What about the liberal arts college professors and their vampire squid accreditation scam upon the necks of the young folk?

Can we send them to the Philippines?  Duterte will know what to do.

[WestCanMan]

11 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't assimilate, why would I try to force someone else to assimilate to a fake country run by quasi-communist nanny police staters?

I'll stand with my Creator and the Declaration of Independence preamble, Canadian Cultural Protectorate ain't never gonna assimilate me.

Assimilating isn't what you think it is. 

Being Canadian is respecting other people's rights & freedoms, learning the language, learning what constitutes good manners, and contributing to society. It doesn't stop you from being religious or anything else.

The opposite of that is for immigrants to hunker down in their own little ghettoes, live off welfare or whatever business they can conduct within their own tribe, etc.

[Hal 9000]

Did the french assimilate to Canada?  No, Canada assimilated to the french in Quebec.  The French even have some shared values as the english such as religion, sports, art and music etc.  Have the Chinese assimilated in Vancouver?  No, Vancouver/Canada has assimilated to the Chinese and the Chinese share very little (if any) common interests with the west.  The East Indians have been able to somewhat assimilate, but given the opportunity, they'd prefer to keep to their own.  Mexicans in the US have assimilated somewhat because they have some common values shared, but like the french, when given the opportunity, they'll keep to their own, carve out an area that is Mexican and speaking Spanish and leave it at that.  Many parts of the southern US, have assimilated to a Mexican culture.  Muslims have never assimilated anywhere...and they simply wont.  In Europe, the muslims have their own muslim areas and as expected are pushing for self governance and have even gone the route of trying to annex parts of Paris.  The muslim world has never brought a single thing of value to the modern world as a whole, not in science, technology, health, art, sport, food, culture, anthropology...nothing.  They sell a shitload of oil and use that money to kill people - mostly their own people, that's about it.  Muslims reject and destroy everything that we value.  

No, the more radically different a culture is, the less chance it will have to assimilate - and there is no culture farther from western values than Islam.  They don't want to assimilate and they don't have to. 

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Machjo said:

And who defines assimilation? Being financially self-supporting? Being married to a Canadian? Or do you mean something else? Heck, even English, French, and Inuit Canadians often don't share a common language. Even our MPs communicate through earphones like UN ambassadors. So if you mean linguistically or culturally, even our MPs have failed to assimilate into a common culture!

There are multiple languages in Switzerland. You need to be able to speak one fluently to become a citizen. You need to recognize and accept common rules of behaviour - how we treat one another, how we act around one another, and our secular values and beliefs. You need to WANT to be a Canadian, not a foreigner with a foreign culture who has a piece of paper that says he can stay.

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Machjo said:

I'd imagine too that a person who'd rather 'take advantage' of such a meagre existence probably suffers depression or some other mental-health problem. Social assistance is not that generous for the most part as far as I understand.

Your imagination is not necessarily a rational bass for the assumptions you state. 

[Argus]

Just now, Rue said:

Your imagination is not necessarily a rational bass for the assumptions you state. 

Compared to much of the third world, life on welfare here is a freaking paradise. We might consider it 'meager' but your standards depend on where you're from and what you were used to before now.

[Rue]

5 hours ago, Machjo said:

Have you ever met a Muslim woman? Some are professional independent women.

Some are not. So your point?

[Rue]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Compared to much of the third world, life on welfare here is a freaking paradise. We might consider it 'meager' but your standards depend on where you're from and what you were used to before now.

His imagination has limits yes.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

There are multiple languages in Switzerland. You need to be able to speak one fluently to become a citizen. You need to recognize and accept common rules of behaviour - how we treat one another, how we act around one another, and our secular values and beliefs. You need to WANT to be a Canadian, not a foreigner with a foreign culture who has a piece of paper that says he can stay.

Last sentence is the crux of the entire issue. 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The people who are entrepreneurs have obviously assimilated. No one said that "no immigrants assimilate". It's just a matter of having a system where it's a priority for people to do it.

The first Sikh I ever met was back in college. Dave Singh. I had no idea what a sikh was. He had somewhat browner skin. Aside from that, there was nothing to tell him apart from any other Canadian.

How come every Sikh who runs for office, every MP and MPP wears a turban and has a beard? 

[Rue]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Assimilating isn't what you think it is. 

Being Canadian is respecting other people's rights & freedoms, learning the language, learning what constitutes good manners, and contributing to society. It doesn't stop you from being religious or anything else.

The opposite of that is for immigrants to hunker down in their own little ghettoes, live off welfare or whatever business they can conduct within their own tribe, etc.

Yes.

[Rue]

4 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

Did the french assimilate to Canada?  No, Canada assimilated to the french in Quebec.  The French even have some shared values as the english such as religion, sports, art and music etc.  Have the Chinese assimilated in Vancouver?  No, Vancouver/Canada has assimilated to the Chinese and the Chinese share very little (if any) common interests with the west.  The East Indians have been able to somewhat assimilate, but given the opportunity, they'd prefer to keep to their own.  Mexicans in the US have assimilated somewhat because they have some common values shared, but like the french, when given the opportunity, they'll keep to their own, carve out an area that is Mexican and speaking Spanish and leave it at that.  Many parts of the southern US, have assimilated to a Mexican culture.  Muslims have never assimilated anywhere...and they simply wont.  In Europe, the muslims have their own muslim areas and as expected are pushing for self governance and have even gone the route of trying to annex parts of Paris.  The muslim world has never brought a single thing of value to the modern world as a whole, not in science, technology, health, art, sport, food, culture, anthropology...nothing.  They sell a shitload of oil and use that money to kill people - mostly their own people, that's about it.  Muslims reject and destroy everything that we value.  

No, the more radically different a culture is, the less chance it will have to assimilate - and there is no culture farther from western values than Islam.  They don't want to assimilate and they don't have to. 

With due respect you make a lot of generalizations. It's not rational to assume all Muslims have the exact same beliefs. Stereotyping all Muslims  in your discussions is no more helpful than leftists refusing to acknowledge that not all immigrants are interested in being Canadian or following Canadian values or working. Either extreme is not helpful.

[Rue]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

The first Sikh I ever met was back in college. Dave Singh. I had no idea what a sikh was. He had somewhat browner skin. Aside from that, there was nothing to tell him apart from any other Canadian.

How come every Sikh who runs for office, every MP and MPP wears a turban and has a beard? 

Actually the one who ran in my riding for the federal Tories did not. You of course have made a generalization.

[Rue]

Is it possible to discuss this issue without throwing generalizations back and forth....