Canada needs to stop being China's bitch

[Realitycheck]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Off topic Omni...as usual.

What Chumpkins always say when presented with facts.

[egghead]

7 hours ago, Owly said:

It seems you must be ignorant of the fact that the US/Canada have had a deportation treaty in place for years.

HK and US have deportation treaty as well. However, edward snowden had lived in HK for few days before he went to russian . The problem in here is that JT and his minions completely misread the situation. Did you remember JT said "‘We are a country of the rule of law:’"  on TV? 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, egghead said:

HK and US have deportation treaty as well. However, edward snowden had lived in HK for few days before he went to russian . The problem in here is that JT and his minions completely misread the situation. Did you remember JT said "‘We are a country of the rule of law:’"  on TV? 

 

Good point...Canada has also refused to extradite convicted criminals who flee from the USA before incarceration, as in the case of a female sex offender from Florida.

So Canada has exercised sovereign rights before in extradition cases, refusing U.S. requests per "treaty".

[Owly]

1 minute ago, egghead said:

HK and US have deportation treaty as well. However, edward snowden had lived in HK for few days before he went to russian . The problem in here is that JT and his minions completely misread the situation. Did you remember JT said "‘We are a country of the rule of law:’"  on TV? 

It actually has nothing to do with JT, it was simply our police responding to a valid request from their police. As I've pointed out, we have a treaty regarding such actions.

[Zeitgeist]

49 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do....upset the status quo.   Canada cannot and would not have ever been able to lead on such policies, and in fact has begged the United States to spend more blood and treasure to preserve the "post WW2" order.    Trump was elected to change that dynamic.

 

 

Unfortunately, Canada's current ruling government is ill equipped and incompetent when faced with such challenges.   China and the USA are the heavyweights in such matters, and Canada better figure out how to survive the conflicts, starting with better leadership and less virtue signaling BS for domestic political consumption. 

 

 

Except when you are in your Florida property, right ?    Canada created it's own circumstances by voluntarily becoming so dependent on the U.S export market and capital investment.   Some lessons are only learned the hard way.  Next time, listen to the Maude Barlow types.

 

 

Trudeau is incapable of changing his ways from a virtue signaling fake feminist to hard nosed pragmatist.   He is just a small fish in a pond with much bigger and more aggressive fish.

 

Canada hasn’t asked the US to uphold the “WW2 order” through more military spending.  Western governments, including Democrats and some Republicans, merely tried to wake the POTUS up to the fact that looking the other way on Putin and undermining NATO and international rules, as well as starting trade wars, sets the US on a path by itself, making it more vulnerable.  I’ve always thought the US spends a stupid amount of money on its military.  It’s obviously a form of overpriced employment welfare that takes money from other services, such as health and education.  

Most of the reasons the US has gone to war for the past 50 years are blowback from misguided colonial policies and manipulation of governments, from installing the Shaw in Iran to installing Sadam in Iraq to arming the Mujahideen to getting involved in the opium trade in Vietnam, supporting the Sandinistas, ignoring election results in Iraq, running hell holes like Abu Graib,  the list goes on.  So before you complain about Canada and other NATO allies freeloading, recognize that much of the mess that needs to be cleaned up geopolitically wasn’t our mess.  The US could spend half as much on military and NATO would be plenty strong alongside Britain, France and other allies. Canada hasn’t drawn on NATO’s support yet, but we supported the US through NATO in Afghanistan after 911.

Also, I don’t envy the US’s violence.  I like many aspects of US culture and appreciate warm weather in winter like many Canadians.  So what?  We pump money into your economy.  Do you want to end tourists coming to your theme parks?  Start being more self-critical because often US problems make ours seem innocuous.  Canada has its own challenges, such as reconciliation and resource development.  In terms of foreign investment from the US, many Canadians oppose it, so don’t think everyone here wants foreign ownership of Canadian resource development.  Maude Barlow isn’t alone in this.  I’d rather see our oil be government owned and refine all of it ourselves.

Every country has challenges.  We’re no better than anyone.  I will say that your president has alienated far more people worldwide than JT, for all his sunny failings.  Also the US has been too cosy with the Russia and the Saudis, making it harder to reel in human rights abuses.  Leadership you call it?   Hardly.  It wasn’t always that way.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[egghead]

31 minutes ago, Owly said:

It actually has nothing to do with JT, it was simply our police responding to a valid request from their police. As I've pointed out, we have a treaty regarding such actions.

Eveything is on them. The lower ranking policeman may not know who she is, but JT and his minions shall know. They need to negotiate with China through back channel on the issue. 

The truth is that they have no idea on what to do now.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada hasn’t asked the US to uphold the “WW2 order” through more military spending.  Western governments, including Democrats and some Republicans, merely tried to wake the POTUS up to the fact that looking the other way on Putin and undermining NATO and international rules, as well as starting trade wars, sets the US on a path by itself, making it more vulnerable.  I’ve always thought the US spends a stupid amount of money on its military.  It’s obviously a form of overpriced employment welfare that takes money from other services, such as health and education. 

 

Then why did your foreign minister do just that...imploring the United States to continue defending the post ww2 order and trade framework ?   Why did Canada point to the USA instead of the EU or other nations to continue paying the lion's share, while being a NATO deadbeat ?

U.S. defense spending is only about 5% of GDP, and has been declining for decades.

 

Quote

Most of the reasons the US has gone to war for the past 50 years are blowback from misguided colonial policies and manipulation of governments, from installing the Shaw in Iran to installing Sadam in Iraq to arming the Mujahideen to getting involved in the opium trade in Vietnam, supporting the Sandinistas, ignoring election results in Iraq, running hell holes like Abu Graib,  the list goes on.  So before you complain about Canada and other NATO allies freeloading, recognize that much of the mess that needs to be cleaned up geopolitically wasn’t our mess.  The US could spend half as much on military and NATO would be plenty strong alongside Britain, France and other allies. Canada hasn’t drawn on NATO’s support yet, but we supported the US through NATO in Afghanistan after 911.

 

Actually, most of the mess stems from your failed British Empire going back to WW1.    Canada was proudly part of that empire, and developing a new human rights imperialism called the "Responsibility to Protect".    Lots of bark, but less and less bite over the past 50 years.

 

Quote

Also, I don’t envy the US’s violence.  I like many aspects of US culture and appreciate warm weather in winter like many Canadians.  So what?  We pump money into your economy.  Do you want to end tourist coming to your theme parks?  Start being more self-critical because often US problems make ours seem innocuous.  Canada has its own challenges, such as reconciliation and resource development.  In terms of foreign investment from the US, many Canadians oppose it, so don’t think everyone here wants foreign ownership of Canadian resource development.  Maude Barlow isn’t alone in this.  I’d rather see our oil be government owned and refine all of it ourselves.

 

Talk is cheap...just follow the money.  Twice an many Canadians still travel to the USA each year than Americans going to Canada.   What you would like to see has nothing to do with post WTA/NAFTA reality.  Canada sold out long ago, having to survive when a bankrupt Britian cut Canada loose for good.    Canadians made such decisions, so don't think you can escape blame/responsibility by pointing at how "bad" it is in the U.S. (or China).   That kind of smug superiority will not pay the bills.

 

Quote

Every country has challenges.  We’are no better than anyone.  I will say that your president has alienated far more people worldwide than JT, for all his sunny failings.  Also the US has been too cosy with the Russia and the Saudis, making it harder to reel in human rights abuses.  Leadership you call it?   Hardly.  It wasn’t always that way.  

 

Agreed...nothing special about Canada.   American leadership will make decisions (good and bad) based on American priorities, not Canadian.   The U.S. has global interests and obligations that Canada could never fathom, let alone shoulder.

[Owly]

3 minutes ago, egghead said:

Eveything is on them. The lower ranking policeman may not know who she is, but JT and his minions shall know. They need to negotiate with China through back channel on the issue. 

The truth is that they have no idea on what to do now.

What the treaty requires us to do is send her to the US where she can face the charges they have against her, and we can wipe our hands of it.

[Owly]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then why did your foreign minister do just that...imploring the United States to continue defending the post ww2 order and trade framework ?   Why did Canada point to the USA instead of the EU or other nations to continue paying the lion's share, while being a NATO deadbeat ?

U.S. defense spending is only about 5% of GDP, and has been declining for decades.

 

 

Actually, most of the mess stems from your failed British Empire going back to WW1.    Canada was proudly part of that empire, and developing a new human rights imperialism called the "Responsibility to Protect".    Lots of bark, but less and less bite over the past 50 years.

 

 

Talk is cheap...just follow the money.  Twice an many Canadians still travel to the USA each year than Americans going to Canada.   What you would like to see has nothing to do with post WTA/NAFTA reality.  Canada sold out long ago, having to survive when a bankrupt Britian cut Canada loose for good.    Canadians made such decisions, so don't think you can escape blame/responsibility by pointing at how "bad" it is in the U.S. (or China).   That kind of smug superiority will not pay the bills.

 

 

Agreed...nothing special about Canada.   American leadership will make decisions (good and bad) based on American priorities, not Canadian.   The U.S. has global interests and obligations that Canada could never fathom, let alone shoulder.

Being "in love" with fat kim is one global interest I hope we will never stoop so low to "shoulder".

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, egghead said:

Eveything is on them. The lower ranking policeman may not know who she is, but JT and his minions shall know. They need to negotiate with China through back channel on the issue. 

The truth is that they have no idea on what to do now.

 

Exactly....any competent government would have the courage and diplomatic chops to cut a deal and repatriate Canadian nationals.   

But these boobs had neither, and only made a bigger mess of things with SNC-Lavalin and the "rule of law".

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then why did your foreign minister do just that...imploring the United States to continue defending the post ww2 order and trade framework ?   Why did Canada point to the USA instead of the EU or other nations to continue paying the lion's share, while being a NATO deadbeat ?

U.S. defense spending is only about 5% of GDP, and has been declining for decades.

 

 

Actually, most of the mess stems from your failed British Empire going back to WW1.    Canada was proudly part of that empire, and developing a new human rights imperialism called the "Responsibility to Protect".    Lots of bark, but less and less bite over the past 50 years.

 

 

Talk is cheap...just follow the money.  Twice an many Canadians still travel to the USA each year than Americans going to Canada.   What you would like to see has nothing to do with post WTA/NAFTA reality.  Canada sold out long ago, having to survive when a bankrupt Britian cut Canada loose for good.    Canadians made such decisions, so don't think you can escape blame/responsibility by pointing at how "bad" it is in the U.S. (or China).   That kind of smug superiority will not pay the bills.

 

 

Agreed...nothing special about Canada.   American leadership will make decisions (good and bad) based on American priorities, not Canadian.   The U.S. has global interests and obligations that Canada could never fathom, let alone shoulder.

The US has such responsibilities because its decent geography and warmth attracted enough people to make the colonies strong enough to back their tax revolt and have a revolution.  That’s fine.  Don’t make it sound like Americans are somehow individually specially equipped to handle more responsibilities.  That’s supremacist nonsense and part of the reason the US has relationship challenges with other countries.  Humble thyselves or perish.  

No smug superiority here.  The British Empire had its own problems.  It banned slavery sooner than the US and stood up to the Nazis sooner than the US.  Nevertheless, the US made tremendous contributions in WW2, especially in the invasion of Europe and the Marshall Plan. Don’t fuck up those gains by rejecting hard won international safeguards and democratic hegemony.  It’s not just for Canada’s sake but for your own freedom.  No country can go it alone.  Otherwise expect more belligerent dictators.  

Edited April 1, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US has such responsibilities because it’s decent geography and warmth attracted enough people to make the colonies strong enough to back their tax revolt and have a revolution.  That’s fine.  Don’t make it sound like Americans are somehow individually specially equipped to handle more responsibilities.  That’s supremacist nonsense and part of the reason the US has relationship challenges with other countries.  Humble thyselves or perish. 

 

The U.S. has more legal and illegal immigrants than any other country in the world...for over 100 years.    Humble American is an oxymoron....that's a Canadian value, because Canada really has no other choice.

 

Quote

No smug superiority here.  The British Empire had its own problems.  It banned slavery sooner than the US and stood up to the Nazis sooner than the US.  Nevertheless, the US made tremendous contributions in WW2, especially in the invasion of Europe and the Marshall Plan. Don’t fuck up those gains by rejecting hard won international safeguards and democratic hegemony.  It’s not just for Canada’s sake but for your own freedom.  No country can go it alone.  Otherwise expect more belligerent dictators.  

 

If America wants to pivot away from the deadbeat parasites...it is America's choice.   Canada didn't do much in the Pacific back then, and can do even less today.   China can smell weakness, and Canada smells just like that with your present ruling government.    The U.S. is not going to save your ass on trade...it is a competitor.

Sorry, but it seems that Canada has always been somebody else's bitch.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Owly]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. has more legal and illegal immigrants than any other country in the world...for over 100 years.    Humble American is an oxymoron....that's a Canadian value, because Canada really has no other choice.

 

 

If America wants to pivot away from the deadbeat parasites...it is America's choice.   Canada didn't do much in the Pacific back then, and can do even less today.   China can smell weakness, and Canada smells just like that with your present ruling government.    The U.S. is not going to save your ass on trade...it is a competitor.

Sorry, but it seems that Canada has always been somebody else's bitch.

 

But we've never been fat kim's bitch. So sad for y'all.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. has more legal and illegal immigrants than any other country in the world...for over 100 years.    Humble American is an oxymoron....that's a Canadian value, because Canada really has no other choice.

 

 

If America wants to pivot away from the deadbeat parasites...it is America's choice.   Canada didn't do much in the Pacific back then, and can do even less today.   China can smell weakness, and Canada smells just like that with your present ruling government.    The U.S. is not going to save your ass on trade...it is a competitor.

 

The Pacific was a big reason the US finally joined the war: kamikazes flying into Pearl Harbour. 

Much of the escalation in the arms race was US initiated, especially post-Eisenhower.  Yes, the US ended the Cold War, but arguably it started it.  Feel free to blame allies though, a hallmark of the Trump administration.  At least you have Kim.  Just watch your back.  He’s keeping the nuke dream alive.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

The Pacific was a big reason the US finally joined the war: kamikazes flying into Pearl Harbour. 

Much of the escalation in the arms race was US initiated, especially post-Eisenhower.  Yes, the US ended the Cold War, but arguably it started it.  Feel free to blame allies though, a hallmark of the Trump administration.  At least you have Kim.  Just watch your back.  He’s keeping the nuke dream alive.  

 

That's fine, and a wonderful distraction from your big problems with China, Russia, USA, KSA, and other nations.

The U.S. does not exist to make up for Canada's economic or military deficiencies.  

But look at the bright side....Canada now has a reason to smugly bitch and moan about Americans and the United States....the Canadian national past time.

[Owly]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine, and a wonderful distraction from your big problems with China, Russia, USA, KSA, and other nations.

The U.S. does not exist to make up for Canada's economic or military deficiencies.  

But look at the bright side....Canada now has a reason to smugly bitch and moan about Americans and the United States....the Canadian national past time.

Maybe the US needs to stop being China's bitch, at least in the hands of Trump.

With less than a month before a March 1 deadline for either a deal or an increase in U.S. tariffs, hardliners inside and outside the administration have expressed concern Trump is being outplayed by Chinese President Xi Jinping and seduced by what they see as empty promises.

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trump-open-to-letting-march-1-deadline-for-china-tariffs-slide-1.1213006

 

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine, and a wonderful distraction from your big problems with China, Russia, USA, KSA, and other nations.

The U.S. does not exist to make up for Canada's economic or military deficiencies.  

But look at the bright side....Canada now has a reason to smugly bitch and moan about Americans and the United States....the Canadian national past time.

Thankfully this Wuawei extradition business will soon be over for Canada.  How will the US stick handle that once you get Meng?

 I suggest that KSA and Russia are very much America’s problems.  How will Trump manage the anti-American threat from Saudi Arabia and the shit caused in Yemen with his head up the prince’s ass?  How will Putin be kept at bay in Ukraine?   You need NATO in the Baltics.  Putin would love to have a go at those former Soviet republics.  How will you prevent Chinese hegemony, more a problem for the US empire than little Canada?

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Owly said:

Maybe the US needs to stop being China's bitch, at least in the hands of Trump.

 

Then start your own Omni thread about that topic.

This is the Canada bitch thread.

 

Quote

TORONTO — First U.S. President Donald Trump attacked Canada on trade. Then Saudi Arabia punished it for speaking up for human rights. Now China has the country in its cross-hairs, detaining two Canadians in apparent retaliation for the arrest of a top Chinese tech executive on behalf of the United States.

Canada is caught between two superpowers and taking the punishment — and its ally to the south has been conspicuously absent in coming to its aid.

“We’ve never been this alone,” historian Robert Bothwell said. “We don’t have any serious allies. And I think that’s another factor in what the Chinese are doing. … Our means of retaliation are very few. China is a hostile power.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/weve-never-been-this-alone-canada-finds-itself-caught-between-two-powers-without-any-serious-allies

 

 

[egghead]

15 hours ago, Argus said:

And I'm sure the Chinese have the full blueprints for every one of those aircraft, and will wind up selling them abroad and taking Boeing's customers.

In much the same way they simply hack your computers to get the blueprints for your missiles, fighters and warships and then build their own version for a tenth the cost.

Don't be stupid; if blueprints alone work, you will still hear "China 2025." China is completely back down since ZTE. BTW, none of the Comac C919's parts are MIC 

Edited April 1, 2019 by egghead

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Thankfully this Wuawei extradition business will soon be over for Canada.  How will the US stick handle that once you get Meng?

 

Give her back to China for trade concessions...no big deal.    We had to bust Conrad Black's ass too, remember ?

 

Quote

 I suggest that KSA and Russia are very much America’s problems.  How will Trump manage the anti-American threat from Saudi Arabia and the shit caused in Yemen with his head up the prince’s ass?  How will Putin be kept at bay in Ukraine?   You need NATO in the Baltics.  Putin would love to have a go at those former Soviet republics.  How will you prevent Chinese hegemony, more a problem for the US empire than little Canada?

 

First, Canada can never do any of these things, but thanks for asking.

Americans will not die for The Ukraine....not going to happen.   Those bastards that Freeland loves so much would have happily nuked New York just a few decades ago.

Putin already had a go at Crimea, and Obama/NATO/Canada did nothing.    So why is Trump expected to be the savior ?

The U.S. and China are now the world's largest trading partners, and that is not going to change...both nations need each other.

Canada can fight it's own self inflicted battles.

Edited April 1, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

I do think the big learning for Canada last year is to become more independent, militarize and expand.  Just a matter of time.  Europe is in a mess, including Britain.   The US is obsessed with its fear and security agenda, especially along its southern border.  China is quietly expanding yet continuing to demonstrate its bad actor status.  Saudi Arabia was belligerent because it felt empowered by the US in the conservative anti-Iran cycle after Obama.  

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Give her back to China for trade concessions...no big deal.    We had to bust Conrad Black's ass too, remember ?

 

 

First, Canada can never do any of these things, but thanks for asking.

Americans will not die for The Ukraine....not going to happen.   Those bastards would have happily nuked New York just a few decades ago.

Putin already had a go at Crimea, and Obama/NATO/Canada did nothing.    So why is Trump expected to be the savior ?

The U.S. and China are now the world's largest trading partners, and that is not going to change...both nations need each other.

Canada can fight it's own self inflicted battles.

Trading partners?   It’s called the US buys what China produces.  Oh yeah, soy.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I do think the big learning for Canada last year is to become more independent, militarize and expand.  Just a matter of time.  Europe is in a mess, including Britain.   The US is obsessed with its fear and security agenda, especially along its southern border.  China is quietly expanding yet continuing to demonstrate its bad actor status.  Saudi Arabia was belligerent because it felt empowered by the US in the conservative anti-Iran cycle after Obama.  

 

Ya think ?!    But even I know that Canada will not do anything of the sort.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Trading partners?   It’s called the US buys what China produces.  Oh yeah, soy.  

 

Soy...and over 2,000 Boeing airliners.   How many has Canada sold to China ?

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Ya think ?!    But even I know that Canada will not do anything of the sort.  

Would California be able to do all of that?  California is bigger than Canada.