Argus Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, jacee said: Nobody ever said terrorists had to be organized cells. The very occasional freak gets motivated by the internet. Muslim terrorists are inspired in their own mosques. We keep getting glimpses into the hatred preached in mosques and then the mosque in question says "Oh? We didn't know that was being said in our mosque! We'll make sure that doesn't happen again until it happens again." Btw, much of this guy's 'manifesto' reads like something out of Karl Marx. He hated capitalism and hated big business and globalism and was a devoted environmentalist. The country he most admired was Communist China. Not exactly your typical alt-right type. Edited March 16, 2019 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 From Wikipedia, the last 30 days of terrorist attacks. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) del Edited March 16, 2019 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Argus said: From Wikipedia, the last 30 days of terrorist attacks. It seems that Muslims are mainly the victims of radical Islamic attacks. In the case of Syria, those attacks were backed by western entities like the USA through Saudi Arabia. So Islamic terror via western funding. Afghanistan is another shit show where the war has gone on longer than both WWI and WWII. I acknowledge the attacks in Europe by Muslims and that would be better to focus on to back up your point. And communism in Russia has killed millions.
Army Guy Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 4 hours ago, jacee said: Exactly, Michael. But the efforts of police, CSIS, etc are focused on Islamic terrorism. And they have prevented some attacks. They don't track white supremacists, they dismiss their importance, consider anti-Muslim hate groups, websites and rallies a matter of "free speech", so police are never able to prevent their attacks. Ask your self WHY the contrate on Islamic terrorism....could it be that 95 % of todays terrorism are carried out by people with Islamic back grounds, could it be that these Islamic terrorist are well funded, and their attacks are far more dangerous, "with a few exceptions Tim mcvhea attack was very potent..." How much resources do you think they have to counter these terrorist attacks, I mean how many people do you think are employed to track and surveill all these possible terrorist, be it Islamic or white racist.....and while you seem to be directing your anger towards CSIS and RCMP, maybe you should be pointing towards the man with control over budgets....start your research right there and follow the money....Why is it their budget is so low, because Canadians want it that way.... Despite what Jaccee try's and feed you as the truth ….she is full of shit....read the below link and while it is not much it does state that CSIS alone tracks over 100 extreme right wing groups...it does not mention RCMP, or Military Intel which also tracks domestic and inter national terrorist groups....each with their own budgets, all are underfunded when compared to actual treats in Canada. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1057610X.2016.1139375?journalCode=uter20 Closing web sites is an ongoing battle with all policing services, as fast as they close them new ones pop up.....once again these guys are on a budget , and they do wonders with what they have but it is not enough.....But all this is a matter of public record, budgets, manning, equipment requests etc etc all public, goggle that shit.... We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Argus said: Btw, much of this guy's 'manifesto' reads like something out of Karl Marx. He hated capitalism and hated big business and globalism and was a devoted environmentalist. The country he most admired was Communist China. Not exactly your typical alt-right type. Actually it reads perfectly alt-right. Right-wingers of the sort that support Trump seem to have sensed however dimly, that they got screwed when big capitalist business' shipped their jobs around the globe. Right-wing environmentalism is a newfound concern about overpopulation, by immigrants of course, especially brown ones. Otherwise right-wingers are usually busy promoting ways to boost birth rates, of white people. As for this guy's admiration for China, Trump admires Russia so....I wouldn't read too much into what right-wing whack-jobs admire never mind why. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Actually it reads perfectly alt-right. Right-wingers of the sort that support Trump seem to have sensed however dimly, that they got screwed when big capitalist business' shipped their jobs around the globe. Right-wing environmentalism is a newfound concern about overpopulation, by immigrants of course, especially brown ones. Otherwise right-wingers are usually busy promoting ways to boost birth rates, of white people. As for this guy's admiration for China, Trump admires Russia so....I wouldn't read too much into what right-wing whack-jobs admire never mind why. sounds like a liberal, Justin is that you.... We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Saudi Monitor Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Learning from reputable sources is the way I navigate information. Though I was raised Catholic and still support much of its morality, I have tried to learn about and appreciate the good in other faiths and cultures. Muslims can teach non-Muslim theists about devotion, as submission to God. My concerns are with narratives, religious or non-religious, that promulgate hatred or mistreatment towards a group or groups. I agree with you, and to remind you, vast majority of muslims want peaceful and mutually beneficial co-existence . However handful of "crazy" people should not let all of us down. Edited March 16, 2019 by Saudi Monitor
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: sounds like a liberal, Justin is that you.... No, Justin merely sounds liberal. He's very much a right-winger according to the original meaning of the term - far more concerned about not distributing power into anyone else's hands. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Donnie Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, jacee said: All funding for terrorism is directed at 'Islamic' radicals But police don't prevent white supremacist terrorist attacks because they don't look for white supremacists. They only look for 'Islamic' terrorists. Do you have some paper that shows all funding going to hunt Islamic radicals and that white terrorists are ignored? I remember the 80s and 90s when defeating skinheads and other white national groups was very important. Heritage Front snd Western Guard cone to mind. I havent heard of any groups like this in a while. Do you have proof that white nat groups are a big problem like the Islamic groups? One incident doesnt tell me we have a huge problem on our hands. Islamic groups have murdered thousands in the last few years and the left still refuses to admit Islamic groups are an issue. So I guess unless white groups kill millions, they arent a problem? When do groups become a problem? At what murder count?
Saudi Monitor Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, eyeball said: No, its because violence is a completely natural reaction to the decades of malignant interference we've perpetrated against many of the countries they come from. I expect I'd react violently too. Who wouldn't? Actually Eyeball is right. Muslims are by far the biggest victims of terror attacks across the world. It's in our interest to prevent terrorism and condemn it. The countries and people the western governments have been invading for decades and bombing, generally don't like you, and people there would kind of like to bomb you back. That has little to do with Islam, and a lot to do with people being angry that their family members are in multiple pieces. One of the biggest mass killings i remember was that bombing that the USA did in Iraq which killed nearly 200 civilians. Another one was in Somalia where a former soldier killed 300 civilians as revenge attack. Quote The man who killed more than 300 people with a truck bomb in the centre of Mogadishu on Saturday was a former soldier in Somalia’s army whose home town was raided by local troops and US special forces two months ago in a controversial operation in which 10 civilians were killed, officials in Somalia have said. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/somalia-bomber-was-ex-solider-whose-town-was-raided-by-us-forces Again, that has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with their interactions with the West. You ask any Balkan Muslim what they think of the US/West and you will get largely positive response. Edited March 16, 2019 by Saudi Monitor
Donnie Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said: I agree with you, and to remind you, vast majority of muslims want peaceful and mutually beneficial co-existence . However handful of crazy "people" people should not let all of us down. The great myth. Its not just a handful though. Is it? Its millions of Muslims. Pew research poll 1.8 Billion Muslims worldwide. % of muslims who have a favourable view of ISIS? Im counting ' I dont know' as positive. If you dont know if isis is bad you support them. Pakistan alone 71% of the population supports ISIS. 200 MILLION in Pakistan means 142,000,000 Pakistanis support ISIS. Thats one country. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/ IM on my phone. Ill make a better post later.
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said: Actually Eyeball is right. Muslims are by far the biggest victims of terror attacks across the world. It's in our interest to prevent terrorism and condemn it. More to the point though many Muslim countries are victims of decades of geo-political vandalism committed by rogue super-powers and their allies - naturally, many of these victims have chosen to retaliate against and lash out against that vandalism. Again, I'd be hard-pressed not to feel a similar compulsion. Muslim terror against other Muslim's is largely a result of the dysfunctional struggle for power that vandalism has caused - we call this instability when we accuse other countries of causing it. Otherwise we call it bringing order to chaos when we engage in it. Edited March 16, 2019 by eyeball 1 I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Scott Mayers Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 The left AND right (and center?) extremes all contribute to the cause for selfish reasons. The 'group' identity is taking precedence over individual identity. They only differ in tactics. The left: People are numbers only and the future is more significant than the present. The problem with this is that if you are not IN that 'number', you don't merely get sacrificed, you get scapegoated. Also, given the left is more secular, the only common denominator is to that future uniquely, especially if they have lots of kids or family they hope to see fare well in the future. This latter point is also true of the right but the difference is that the left are not run by individuals nor a collection of individuals (democratic) but by the collective religious, and culturally biased, ethnocentric would-be right-wingers if in power. The intention is to destroy the 'weaker' minority GROUPS. One consolidating factor is to find a common target class, usually male and more specifically white with the narrowed feature of being stereotypically treated AS their own 'collective'. The right: People are those most proximate to you (like family) and the present conditions are all that can matter. This to me is also made up of the present groups in the left I just mentioned. But these are those who are more representative of the non-ethnically defined groups or to the unique group identity (variable cultures depending on country, time, or place). This group type (the right) are generally RUN by more wealthy independent individuals or large and strong segregate cultures in power. They argue with less concern to be 'rational' only because there is no moral reality above what we make of it. Thus they tend to appropriate a less logical 'god' but stricter religion. This is to justify without a desire to defend their right of freedom to religious and cultural identity where they are benefactors. BUT the ones who are identified OF this class who aren't successful and are scapegoated as the Number that gets sacrificed by the left become the ones who get propped up as the extreme, are the only ones who actually get targeted by all groups. Thus the poor on this side are being FORCED to associate with the side that at least does not discriminate against them BY racial and ethnic based laws. Th middle: The average moderate desire to preserve family AND their particular group, and favor both the present and future conditions. The error on this majority are about the stupidity to 'feel' by popular trends in their numbers AS individuals or groups with a positive belief that there is still an overall balance if we can only all just be friends. It's a naivete more common in children or to the average who have a disdain against both spectra of wealth. The impoverished classes are where the fighting is all derived from. If you are a minority ethnicity ('minor' by plurality definitions), you are forced to be center or left depending on which external identity all the arrogant cultural supremacists impose upon them. The problem is cyclic and can be stopped but requires redressing Population Controls of some sort, A pro-logical approach to enhance people's understanding (rather than just the empirical-only restricted thinkers who lack logical clarity.) You need both but cannot deem closure on the concept of non-closure. Distribution of wealth needs to be maintained AT SOME minimal and GRADUAL earned process for EACH person regardless of background, and a TOP LIMIT to power and wealth that penalized ONLY those who are directly benefiting (not the CLASS defined by group associations) from their wealth. SACRIFICES should not be distributed to the whole for the debt of those PARTICULAR peoples hiding behind apparent support for 'diversity'. I think these along with technology needs to be attended to are what the general types of solutions that can be used to get change to occur for the better....for ALL. So please you select group-identifiers of culture, stop forcing your own powers to rule FOR the individual. Keep your magical beliefs to your own and stop forcing your kids into the same associations. Culture/ethnicity is the cause of problems, not those allowing their children to CHOOSE their culture and identity. We do not OWN our parent's artistic talents any more than their faults.
Saudi Monitor Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: More to the point though many Muslim countries are victims of decades of geo-political vandalism committed by rogue super-powers and their allies - victims who have chosen to retaliate against and lash out against that vandalism. Again, I'd be hard-pressed not to feel a similar compulsion. Muslim terror against other Muslim's is largely a result of the dysfunctional struggle of power that vandalism has caused - we call this instability when we accuse other countries of causing it. Otherwise we call it bringing order to chaos when we engage in it. Indeed, the killings are geopolitical in nature, not religious. look at the graph I posted at the previous page about terrorism in Europe, what change in religious teachings cause the huge spikes in killings in 2004? There is no religious explanation, it is the Iraq War. Has the global Muslim population massively increased, or has the instability caused by the West in pursuing a war of aggression lead to political violence caused by the vacuum of power and a rush to fill the vacuum by any means necessary? Edited March 16, 2019 by Saudi Monitor
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: The left AND right (and center?) extremes all contribute to the cause for selfish reasons. The 'group' identity is taking precedence over individual identity. The terms left and right sorely need to be returned to their original post- French revolutionary meaning. Do that and the basis for all your other musings just about completely dissolve. The "middle" according to the original meaning is clearly the seat of government - the complete opposite of the majority of the governed you described. Edited March 16, 2019 by eyeball I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said: There is no religious explanation, it is the Iraq War. The explanation actually starts with the West's covert overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran. The worst effect of Operation Ajax is that it's apparent success, however short-lived, emboldened western intelligence agencies to covertly change or empower the dictators of other regimes in the region - hence, the deep unmitigated instability that is now spreading around the globe. Asserting that white/right wing extremism is a reaction to left-wing social-justice is just the latest and probably the stupidest reason in a long line of apologetics preventing us from truthfully reconciling or facing up to our past actions. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, eyeball said: More to the point though many Muslim countries are victims of decades of geo-political vandalism committed by rogue super-powers and their allies - naturally, many of these victims have chosen to retaliate against and lash out against that vandalism. Again, I'd be hard-pressed not to feel a similar compulsion. And yet, we do not see similar backlashes on the same scale from First Nations in Canada or USA, Chile, Haiti, Panama, Argentina, etc. Many of "these victims" have not chosen to retaliate violently, at least not on the same scale as the fundie Islamists. Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: And yet, we do not see similar backlashes on the same scale from First Nations in Canada or USA, Chile, Haiti, Panama, Argentina, etc. Many of "these victims" have not chosen to retaliate violently, at least not on the same scale as the fundie Islamists. Exactly. The scale of retaliation simply stems from differences in how vengeance is viewed. Muslims apparently take it more seriously is all. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: And yet, we do not see similar backlashes on the same scale from First Nations in Canada or USA, Chile, Haiti, Panama, Argentina, etc. Many of "these victims" have not chosen to retaliate violently, at least not on the same scale as the fundie Islamists. Anyways, its good to see you acknowledging we're being retaliated against as opposed to being attacked for no reason out of the blue. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Exactly. The scale of retaliation simply stems from differences in how vengeance is viewed. Muslims apparently take it more seriously is all. Then so can other "far-right terrorists".....whether they be "white" or not. Political power and terror from a gun is hardly a new idea and certainly not limited to the "right". Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Anyways, its good to see you acknowledging we're being retaliated against as opposed to being attacked for no reason out of the blue. Hardly a new revelation....history is full of such examples. Nothing special about Muslims / nations in that regard. Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Hardly a new revelation....history is full of such examples. Nothing special about Muslims / nations in that regard. The only reason its not a revelation to you is that you're quite proud of what your government did. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted March 16, 2019 Report Posted March 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Then so can other "far-right terrorists".....whether they be "white" or not. Political power and terror from a gun is hardly a new idea and certainly not limited to the "right". No, and certainly not if we keep moving down this path. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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