Are humans really responsible for climate change?

[Army Guy]

because we have been lied to often....Al gore ring a bell, his theories have been denied by over 31,000 climate scientists....all of them, Al gore was he not one of the first climate change advocates...

https://www.usapoliticstoday.org/scientists-al-gore-liar-climate-change/

[marcus]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

because we have been lied to often....Al gore ring a bell, his theories have been denied by over 31,000 climate scientists....all of them, Al gore was he not one of the first climate change advocates...

https://www.usapoliticstoday.org/scientists-al-gore-liar-climate-change/

Why are you so stuck on Al Gore?

Guess what! The Arctic ice sheet IS MELTING at a record pace. It is REALLY happening.

I am confused as to where you sit on the climate denial spectrum.

Are you on the:

1. Climate change is not happening Team, or;
2. Climate change is happening but humans have nothing to do with it Team

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by marcus

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

Why are you so stuck on Al Gore?

Guess what! The Arctic ice sheet IS MELTING at a record pace. It is REALLY happening.

I am confused as to where you sit on the climate denial spectrum.

Are you on the:

1. Climate change is not happening Team, or;
2. Climate change is happening but humans have nothing to do with it Team

 

Who cares what team he's on. What matters is what team are you on?
 Are you on the:
1. Climate change is happening, and if we don't give control of our lives to the government, that means people need to be forced to do so, because we're all going to die if they don't!
2. I have a plan that isn't counter-productive to the cause, there is no need for the Climate Doomsday Bullsh*t.

If you are on team 1, then I don't care how dumb you think the other team 1 is, because the team 1 I am talking about is even dumber than that, by several orders of magnitude.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Who cares what team he's on. What matters is what team are you on?
 Are you on the:
1. Climate change is happening, and if we don't give control of our lives to the government, that means people need to be forced to do so, because we're all going to die if they don't!
2. I have a plan that isn't counter-productive to the cause, there is no need for the Climate Doomsday Bullsh*t.

If you are on team 1, then I don't care how dumb you think the other team 1 is, because the team 1 I am talking about is even dumber than that, by several orders of magnitude.

Actually, neither team really exists.  No-one has a plan, and if they did, they couldn't get enough people to agree to it anyway.  But they don't, so the point is moot.

Climate change is happening, and the problem is so massive, having started before the planet had a billion people, that we really have no clue whatsoever what to do about it.  Or maybe we all know what, but none of us know how.

It's entirely likely that we aren't all going to die due to it, but more of us will, and those who don't are likely to be a lot more miserable.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Actually, neither team really exists.  No-one has a plan, and if they did, they couldn't get enough people to agree to it anyway.  But they don't, so the point is moot.

Climate change is happening, and the problem is so massive, having started before the planet had a billion people, that we really have no clue whatsoever what to do about it.  Or maybe we all know what, but none of us know how.

It's entirely likely that we aren't all going to die due to it, but more of us will, and those who don't are likely to be a lot more miserable.

Yeah, they don't have a plan, but they want the government to take over our lives anyway. Anyone on that side can suck a bag of dicks. Either get a plan, or stop bitching about inaction, because counter-productive action is just going to make the problem worse.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Yeah, they don't have a plan, but they want the government to take over our lives anyway. Anyone on that side can suck a bag of dicks.

It won't happen.  They tried it in France and they set fire to the place.  One of the reasons we don't know how to deal with climate change is that no-one knows how to deal with basic human nature.

[Yzermandius19]

15 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It won't happen.  They tried it in France and they set fire to the place.  One of the reasons we don't know how to deal with climate change is that no-one knows how to deal with basic human nature.

You harness it, you don't try to fight it in a futile battle using government intervention, that's how.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You harness it, you don't try to fight it in a futile battle using government intervention, that's how.

Sorry, I meant no-one except you.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sorry, I meant no-one except you.

It is easy to spot counter-productive plans, they usually involve government power grabs. Not hard to come up with a better plan than a clearly counter-productive one, yet environmentalist extremists sure have a really tough time for whatever reason, they seem to think the only solution is more socialism, sad.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

It is easy to spot counter-productive plans, they usually involve government power grabs. Not hard to come up with a better than a clearly counter-productive one.

It's proven very difficult so far to come up with anything that even remotely looks like it might do the trick.  So difficult no-one has even come close.

[Yzermandius19]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's proven very difficult so far to come up with anything that even remotely looks like it might do the trick.  So difficult no-one has even come close.

Which is the excuse the extremists use to propose extreme "solutions" that will obviously exacerbate the problem. Your proposals won't fix the entire problem, so we demand extreme action that will make the problem way worse instead! Bunch of losers.

If doing less is better than doing more, then you do less, you don't do more anyway just because it makes you feel like you are doing good, when it backfires spectacularly. Many of these folks refuse to accept any answers that aren't a government power grab, it's almost as if they are communists trying to trojan horse socialism on the rest of us via an environmentalist canard, because they realize that sells better than if they just admit what they are really selling.

Letting communists hijack the environmental movement is doing huge damage to the cause environmentalists claim to champion. Environmentalists would be wise to publicly distance themselves from the Commies, instead of parroting their propaganda.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Which is the excuse the extremists use to propose extreme "solutions" that will obviously exacerbate the problem. Your proposals won't fix the entire problem, so we demand extreme action that will make the problem way worse instead! Bunch of losers.

If doing less is better than doing more, then you do less, you don't do more anyway just because it makes you feel like you are doing good when it backfires spectacularly. Theses folks refuse to accept any answers that aren't a government power grab, it's almost as if they there are socialists trying to trojan horse socialism on the rest of us via an environmentalist canard, because they realize that sells better than if they just admit what they are really selling.

Letting communists hijack the environmental movement is doing huge damage to the cause environmentalists claim to champion.

Perhaps.  I am rather disappointed with those environmentalists who decry investment in carbon capture technology because it might encourage oil and gas production.  Along with those who refuse to consider nuclear power.  It's almost as if they were deniers.  They can't be too worried about it.

Nevertheless, only an extreme solution will solve this problem.  But you don't have to worry about that.    No-one has the solution, and they have no idea how they would get people to agree to it if they did.

You are going to have enough to worry about anyway.  Depending on how old you are, of course.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Perhaps.  I am rather disappointed with those environmentalists who decry investment in carbon capture technology because it might encourage oil and gas production.  Along with those who refuse to consider nuclear power.  It's almost as if they were deniers.  They can't be too worried about it.

Nevertheless, only an extreme solution will solve this problem.  But you don't have to worry about that.    No-one has the solution, and they have no idea how they would get people to agree to it if they did.

You are going to have enough to worry about anyway.  Depending on how old you are, of course.

Wrong. Assuming only extreme solutions will solve the problem is the fuel that drives terrible counter-productive proposals, and demands for the government to force you to make decisions they agree with. That is the bullshit propaganda the commies have fed environmentalists so you'll back their solutions or no solutions at all, that's why they won't let you have carbon capture, that's why they won't let you do nuclear, same rubric.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Wrong. Assuming only extreme solutions will solve the problem is the fuel that drives terrible counter-productive proposals, and demands for the government to force you to make decisions they agree with.

Wrong.  Assuming there is a solution to climate change that isn't extreme is the reason why it continues to be a problem so long after we discovered we had better do something about it.

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Wrong.  Assuming there is a solution to climate change that isn't extreme is the reason why it continues to be a problem so long after we discovered we had better do something about it.

Wrong. People don't buy bullsh*t doomsday scams, going to the bullsh*t doomsday scam well, that is why you can't sell your poison. Ditch the obvious baggage, or you will never sell enough to achieve your stated goals.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Wrong. People don't buy bullsh*t doomsday scams, going to bullsh*t doomsday scam well, is why you can't sell your poison.

Ah, you're a denier.  I'm sorry, I thought we were having a serious conversation.

My mistake.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Ah, you're a denier.  I'm sorry, I thought we were having a serious conversation.

My mistake.

I'm no denier, I just don't buy bullshit claims of doomsday, the dire predictions are overblown and proven false over and over again. You simply inflate the seriousness of the issue, to justify bullshit means to address the issue, via moral panic.

You refuse to accept anything sort of extreme solutions, which makes you an extremist using environmentalism as cover for your extremism, in order to convince environmentalist rubes of a that you are entitled to a false sense of moral superiority and they should accept your solutions as the only solutions as a result. Obvious fake environmentalist is obvious.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

I'm no denier, I just don't buy bullshit claims of doomsday, the dire predictions are overblown and proven false over and over again. You simply inflate the seriousness of the issue, to justify bullshit means to address the issue, via moral panic.

What do you think then?  A few more sunny days in March?  A little more rain in September?  One or two more desperate climate refugees a year asking politely if they can come in for a drink of water, please?

And then some high school student comes up with cold fusion and we all wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What do you think then?  A few more sunny days in March?  A little more rain in September?  One or two more desperate climate refugees a year asking politely if they can come in for a drink of water, please?

And then some high school student comes up with cold fusion and we all wonder what all the fuss was about.

Pretty much. Technological growth will do more than any government power grab to effectively address the issue. Though I doubt whoever comes up with workable fusion will be a high school student when they come up with a big technological leap that makes the problem go away without the need for a giant government power grab.

If you come up with a plan that doesn't involve giving the government way more control over our lives, I am willing to listen, if you have no other plan, and demand that everyone except your plan and anyone suggesting another plan is a denier, then you are an extremist fake environmentalist who cares more about finding an excuse to give the government a lot more power than you care about actually addressing any climate issue.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Pretty much. Though I doubt whoever comes up with workable fusion will be a high school student when they come up with a big technological leap that makes the problem go away.

If you come up with a plan that doesn't involve giving the government way more control over our lives, I am willing to listen, if you have no other plan, and demand that anyone suggesting another plan is a denier, then you are fake environmentalist who cares more about finding excuse to give the government power than actually addressing any climate issue.

I have no plan whatsoever.  I'm actually on record here as being pro pipeline because the lack of a plan makes their moratorium nothing more than silly posturing.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.  A pretty much insurmountable one at the moment.  Because there's no plan.

[Yzermandius19]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I have no plan whatsoever.  I'm actually on record here as being pro pipeline because the lack of a plan makes their moratorium nothing more than silly posturing.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.  A pretty much insurmountable one at the moment.  Because there's no plan.

Most people admit there is a problem, simply getting people to admit it doesn't result in a workable plan. You need to stop focusing on how wrong the deniers are, and focus instead on shutting down idiotic government power grabs, like pipeline moratoriums. At least the Climate Deniers aren't pushing government power grabs that will make the problem worse on you.

That's my advise to real environmentalists, stop aligning yourselves with extremist fake environmentalists, using environmentalism as a cover for their extremism, they are hijacking your agenda and selling you down a river, and it's really bad for the cause. If you ditched them, you'd quickly find there would be a lot less reactionary Deniers opposing your agenda, clinging to the extremists and their solutions is alienating people who would otherwise support your cause from supporting it. Just throw them under the bus already, it will do you a world of good.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Most people admit there is a problem, simply getting people to admit it doesn't result in a workable plan. You need to stop focusing on how wrong the deniers are, and focus instead on shutting down idiotic government power grabs, like pipeline moratoriums. That's my advise to real environmentalists, instead of extremist fake environmentalists using environmentalism as a cover for extremism, who will never see the light.

Deniers are wrong in the same way flat earthers are wrong.  They don't require focus.

There is no solution to the problem of climate change that people will agree to in the numbers required for it to actually work.  The only type of government power grab that would actually work would be one where all the major governments agreed totally on the details, and that doesn't seem likely, ever.

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Deniers are wrong in the same way flat earthers are wrong.  They don't require focus.

There is no solution to the problem of climate change that people will agree to in the numbers required for it to actually work.  The only type of government power grab that would actually work would be one where all the major governments agreed totally on the details, and that doesn't seem likely, ever.

If environmentalists stopped pushing extremist solutions, there would be a lot more agreement, the extremism is the poison pill that prevents the sale. Ditch the extremists, under a bus with them already, they are the one's holding you back and triggering the opposition into undermining your cause.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

If you stopped pushing extremist solutions, there would be a lot more agreement.

They wouldn't be worth a damn, so what's the point?

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They wouldn't be worth a damn, so what's the point?

You'd get more done with those methods than you would with the extremism, that's the point. 

Do you want better, or do you want worse because you clinged to extremism instead of throwing it under the bus? Your choice.

If you want to f*ck the world and saddle them with worse, just because they wouldn't embrace extremism, I don't see how that helps the cause.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Yzermandius19