Get Rid of the Penny

[Riverwind]

“13. (1) Every contract, sale, payment, bill, note, instrument and security for money and every transaction, dealing, matter and thing relating to money or involving the payment of or the liability to pay money shall be made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in the currency of Canada, unless it is made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in....

That quote says that all transactions must be executed using a *currency*. It does not require that transactions be conducted with *bank notes*.

The term 'currency' includes forms of electronic payments.

I really don't understand what your problem is. Bank notes are virtually irrelevant in today's economy and they are only used for small transactions. Most people store their weath in electronic deposits and would not be affected at all if all bank notes were declared worthless.

[dpwozney]

What I mean was that people can't just make up a note. It must be specifically endorsed by (in this case) the Bank of Canada.

Have promissory notes been banned in Canada?

Have you ever had anyone refuse your cash?

A cashier in a local convenience store once refused a Bank of Canada note with the words “hundred” and “dollars” printed on it.

[dpwozney]

I really don't understand what your problem is.

I do not know what one Canadian dollar is exactly, physically and quantitatively.

I need to know this to be able to make an adequate determination of the value of the Canadian dollar.

[Riverwind]

I do not know what one Canadian dollar is exactly, physically and quantitatively. I need to know this to be able to make an adequate determination of the value of the Canadian dollar.

Why? The physical representations of the Canadian dollar have little or no connection with its value. IOW - there is no answer to your question and most people don't think it is a question that needs to be answered.

[dpwozney]

Why?

One reason why I am trying to make an adequate determination of the value of the “Canadian dollar” is because nearly all of the businesses and companies located in my local trading area buy and sell goods and services in “Canadian dollar” terms and I am trying to adequately determine fair and appropriate values in “Canadian dollar” terms for some of these various goods and services.

[Drea]

I finally understand what you are getting at.

You went to a store with a hundred dollar bill. The bill probably came from your bank. The store refused to take your hundred. (Many do because of the amount of fake hundreds (and fifties) that were circulating a while back. )

And now you are po'd at Canadian currency and looking to find somewhere that says what you are thinking "Canadian money is worth nothing!"

Is this the case? Next time ask the bank teller for twenties.

Most money in use today is virtual. When the bank extends a 350,000 dollar loan to you the actual physical money does not end up in your bank's vault waiting for you to pick it up. Only numbers on a screen tell the teller that you have that money in your account - it's real, but it's not physically real.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Drea

[dpwozney]

I finally understand what you are getting at.

You went to a store with a hundred dollar bill. The bill probably came from your bank. The store refused to take your hundred. (Many do because of the amount of fake hundreds (and fifties) that were circulating a while back. )

And now you are po'd at Canadian currency and looking to find somewhere that says what you are thinking "Canadian money is worth nothing!"

Is this the case? Next time ask the bank teller for twenties.

The Bank of Canada note, with the words “hundred” and “dollars”, was a Christmas gift. Circulating “ELIZABETH II” coins in Canada have intrinsic metal value.

A perpetual debt money system is a larger issue. A money system with more debt denominated in “dollars” than money supply denominated in “dollars” is a larger issue. Not knowing what a “Canadian dollar” is physically and quantitatively, and therefore not being able to make an adequate determination of the value of the “Canadian dollar”, are larger issues. There are other larger issues.

Most money in use today is virtual. When the bank extends a 350,000 dollar loan to you the actual physical money does not end up in your bank's vault waiting for you to pick it up.

This is consistent with statements made by Graham Towers, Governor of the Bank of Canada from 1934 to 1954:

“Each and every time a bank makes a loan (or purchases securities), new bank credit is created — new deposits — brand new money.”

“The manufacturing process consists of making a pen-and-ink or typewriter entry on a card in a book. That is all.”

[M.Dancer]

ALCAN AL TSX

C$ 101.690

Net Change C$ +1.210

% Change +1.20%

I swear, it works......

[M.Dancer]

Not knowing what a “Canadian dollar” is physically and quantitatively, and therefore not being able to make an adequate determination of the value of the “Canadian dollar”, are larger issues.

Your dollars are worth 22.6 cents but because I like you, I will give you .25 cents on the dollar.

[August1991]

NDP MP Pat Martin doesn’t want a penny for your thoughts. In fact, he doesn’t want a penny at all.

The Winnipeg Centre MP will introduce a private members’ bill when Parliament returns from its Easter break today that would eliminate the penny from circulation in Canada.

"It’s a completely vacuous thing to hold on to," Martin said.

The Royal Canadian Mint contends it costs less than a cent to make a penny, but Martin said Library of Parliament research suggests it is as much as four cents per penny.

He said take that, together with the fact that on its own an individual penny is useless, means the penny has outlived any reason for being in Canada.

Global

What the Royal Canadian Mint doesn't consider are all the costs associated with using the penny. I hope the parliament lasts long enough for this bill to pass.

[Wilber]

We could issue new dollars at a rate of ten to one, then the penny would be worth a dime.

[M.Dancer]

If the argument that it costs more to make a penny than what it is worth then there is a better argument for getting rid of the five dollar bill.

Pennies at least last for ever....

I would compremise if the intoduced twopence...or even threepence...

[capricorn]

I throw pennies in a pot for 2 years. When the pot is full I roll them up and lug them to the bank. The bank teller looks at the rolled up pennies and looks at me sideways. What have I done I ask myself? Is one or more roll short a penny? I don't know. I somehow feel guilty and lower my eyes. The teller takes a box cutter and slashes the brown paper enveloping the pennies to ensure the contents are genuine. I'm expecting the teller to pull out a scale to weigh the contents to ensure I'm not ripping off the bank. Can't be too careful these days. The still skeptical teller reluctantly hands over a five dollar bill which I promptly put in my purse and I slither out of the bank.

Kill the penny and save me further embarrassment!!!

[Alta4ever]

I throw pennies in a pot for 2 years. When the pot is full I roll them up and lug them to the bank. The bank teller looks at the rolled up pennies and looks at me sideways. What have I done I ask myself? Is one or more roll short a penny? I don't know. I somehow feel guilty and lower my eyes. The teller takes a box cutter and slashes the brown paper enveloping the pennies to ensure the contents are genuine. I'm expecting the teller to pull out a scale to weigh the contents to ensure I'm not ripping off the bank. Can't be too careful these days. The still skeptical teller reluctantly hands over a five dollar bill which I promptly put in my purse and I slither out of the bank.

Kill the penny and save me further embarrassment!!!

Would have been more fun for you to count them out for the teller.

[capricorn]

Would have been more fun for you to count them out for the teller.

But then Alta, there would be no drama.

[Alta4ever]

But then Alta, there would be no drama.

I suppose...

[Wilber]

I would compremise if the intoduced twopence...or even threepence...

You would have to do both or get rid of nickels.

[Leafless]

A Winnipeg MP who thinks the penny is a nuisance and too expensive to ship around the country is expected to introduce a private member's bill on Monday to take it out of circulation.

New Democrat Pat Martin says while the Royal Canadian Mint contends it costs only 0.7 cents to make a penny, Library of Parliament research suggests the real cost is as much as four cents per penny.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/03/3...ny.html?ref=rss

I cannot believe an NDP MP would be promoting a cash grab for retailers (now will be rounding off to the nickel) , contributing to higher inflation numbers.

I know the oil companies will love this, raising gas prices in nickles, rather than fractions of a cent.

Do you think the penny should be eliminated?

EDITED by moderator:

This was the Opening Post of a redundant thread entitled: MP to introduce bill to eliminate the penny

It has been merged into this previous thread on the same topic.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged thread

[sharkman]

As much as it could trigger cash grabitis from greedy retailers, I would love to see the end of the senseless (heheheh) penny. I would be more concerned about small stores and mom and pop run businesses than I would large organizations which would have company wide policy with programmed tills. Gas prices could still go up in single cents, only the final price (including double taxation by way of the GST charged on the total) would need to be rounded.

I hate the penny.

[Leafless]

Gas prices could still go up in single cents, only the final price (including double taxation by way of the GST charged on the total) would need to be rounded.

How could gas prices go up in single cents or fractions of a cent, when the cent is no longer the 'official standard' and no longer exist and is replaced by the nickel?

I realize what you are saying but until that time comes (if it actually does ever come), we will have to wait and see, as currently there is no proof either way.

I hate the penny to, but to me is a necessary evil. I would prefer to see those pennies in my pocket, rather than help make some one else rich at my expense.

[geoffrey]

I just returned from a trip to China, where they only have 1/10 of a dollar, having eliminated their 'penny'. Making change was actually so much easier, in fact, almost everything was in rounded dollars. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head not rounded was a 3.50 yuan bottle of Coke on the Shanghai subway.

Who uses cash anymore anyways? If you do, you shouldn't. Might as well encourage the transition by making fewer coins.

Edited April 17, 2008 by geoffrey

[M.Dancer]

I just returned from a trip to China, where they only have 1/10 of a dollar, having eliminated their 'penny'. Making change was actually so much easier, in fact, almost everything was in rounded dollars. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head not rounded was a 3.50 yuan bottle of Coke on the Shanghai subway.

Who uses cash anymore anyways? If you do, you shouldn't. Might as well encourage the transition by making fewer coins.

I believe someone from the Caisse suggested that not only should we get rid of the penny, that we should resize the loon and eliminate the $5.00 bill....

that was about 2 weeks ago, I will see if I can find it.

[madmax]

I hate the penny.

I know it makes no sense to hate a piece of stamped copper. But I too hate the penny.

[M.Dancer]

I know it makes no sense to hate a piece of stamped copper. But I too hate the penny.

I like the penny in so much as I considernit free money. Every day I toss 4 or 5 cents into a very large wine bottle. And once every 3 or 4 years I haul it to the sorting machine and walk away with....SIXTY DOLLARS

[madmax]

I like the penny in so much as I considernit free money. Every day I toss 4 or 5 cents into a very large wine bottle. And once every 3 or 4 years I haul it to the sorting machine and walk away with....SIXTY DOLLARS

Not bad! You could buy alot of wine with that. I put my pennies in a glass piggy bank. I just don't want to crack it open. That unfortuneately is a different kind of WHINE.

Perhaps there needs to be a campaign to get people to circulate their money? Otherwise, it is just a matter of time before the pennies life comes to an end.