London Bombings

[ScottBrison]

I'd just like to take this opportunity to send my (and I hope everyone here's) heartfelt condolances to those killed, wounded, and affected by the Bombings in London today.

Sort of stirs up feelings of that grim September day not so long ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07...tube/index.html

[Black Dog]

London's emergency response crews seem to be incredibly well-coordinated and proffessional. I expect after years of IRA activity and the post 9-11, post-Madrid threats, they've ben preparing for just such and event.

[Technocrat]

I'd just like to take this opportunity to send my (and I hope everyone here's) heartfelt condolances to those killed, wounded, and affected by the Bombings in London today

I hope those responsible are brought to justice, I trust that this will happen.

OK not trying to sound like a complete ass but September 11 2001 is now refered to as 9/11 right. Any takers on what this will be refered to? My money is on double 07 for 07/07/05... im just waiting for the media to pick that one up. yeah its a lame james bond reference but then the media can refer to the terrorist attacks in a neat little package 9/11 & 007, although this didn't happen in the madrid bombings so i guess we shall see.

[Muddyw67]

Of course brutal attacks by terrorists against innocent civilians is to be condemned as a outrage and an affront against human kind-in Baghdad as well as London. Its pretty disingenuous of that coward and hypocrite Blair to rail against barbaric acts against innocents when he authorized the equally brutal attacks on innocent Iraqis two years ago based on non existent threats to British security in order to promote British economic and political Imperialism along with his co-state terrorist George Bush. Terrorism is terrorism whether it is state terrorism or any other kind

[I miss Reagan]

Of course brutal attacks by terrorists against innocent civilians is to be condemned as a outrage and an affront against human kind-in Baghdad as well as London. Its pretty disingenuous of that coward and hypocrite Blair to rail against barbaric acts against innocents when he authorized the equally brutal attacks on innocent Iraqis two years ago based on non existent threats to British security in order to promote British economic and political Imperialism along with his co-state terrorist George Bush. Terrorism is terrorism whether it is state terrorism or any other kind

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[kimmy]

Rage! I feel terrible for our friends the British. I don't really know what else to say right now, but whatever happens, we stand with Britain always.

I can only wonder what the impact will be once the focus shifts from recovery to finding those responsible.

-k

[Riverwind]

Rage! I feel terrible for our friends the British.  I don't really know what else to say right now, but whatever happens, we stand with Britain always.

I can only wonder what the impact will be once the focus shifts from recovery to finding those responsible.

One thing to remember in the aftermath: The primary objective of these kinds of terrorists is to provoke democratic states into over reacting to their attacks. Al Queda succeeded beyond their wildest expectations when the 9/11 attacks provoked the US into invading Iraq.

I am sure that a whole host of people will call for further restrictions on the freedom of citizens in order to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again. We must resist such attempts - turning our society into a police state due to fear of terrorism would simply hand victory to the terrorists.

[I miss Reagan]

Rage! I feel terrible for our friends the British.   I don't really know what else to say right now, but whatever happens, we stand with Britain always.

I can only wonder what the impact will be once the focus shifts from recovery to finding those responsible.

One thing to remember in the aftermath: The primary objective of these kinds of terrorists is to provoke democratic states into over reacting to their attacks. Al Queda succeeded beyond their wildest expectations when the 9/11 attacks provoked the US into invading Iraq.

I am sure that a whole host of people will call for further restrictions on the freedom of citizens in order to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening again. We must resist such attempts - turning our society into a police state due to fear of terrorism would simply hand victory to the terrorists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding? The last thing they wanted was us "infidels" in their "Holy Lands". They figured we'd just sit on our hands like the WTC attack in '91 or flee like we did in Mogadishu. They want to control our countries through fear. They tasted success when they alter Spains elections. They tasted success when they obliterated the US economy in 2001. Unlike the Spaniards, the Brits will not back down. Although Brits are progressive, they have little tolerance for terrorism and will have even more resolve in hunting the Islamo- facists down.

[cybercoma]

  Are you kidding?  The last thing they wanted was us "infidels" in their "Holy Lands".  They figured we'd just sit on our hands like the WTC attack in '91 or flee like we did in Mogadishu.  They want to control our countries through fear.  They tasted success when they alter Spains elections.  They tasted success when they obliterated the US economy in 2001.  Unlike the Spaniards, the Brits will not back down.  Although Brits are progressive, they have little tolerance for terrorism and will have even more resolve in hunting the Islamo- facists down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we'll firmly stand behind our brothers and sisters in the UK.

Oh wait, we have no military force to help them out anyway.

I'd just like to take this time to thank everyone who sold our sovereignty to the United States by relying on their military.

[Black Dog]

Are you kidding? The last thing they wanted was us "infidels" in their "Holy Lands". They figured we'd just sit on our hands like the WTC attack in '91 or flee like we did in Mogadishu. They want to control our countries through fear. They tasted success when they alter Spains elections. They tasted success when they obliterated the US economy in 2001. Unlike the Spaniards, the Brits will not back down. Although Brits are progressive, they have little tolerance for terrorism and will have even more resolve in hunting the Islamo- facists down.

Precisely what bin Laden wants. If anyone bothered to look at the stated goals of Al Qaeda (if indeed, they are responsible for these attacks today), the expulsion o western forces and the removal of western influence on Islamic countires is only a step on the ultimate goal of re-establishing the Caliphate. In order to do that, bin Laden needs to get the Islamic world on his side. And what beter way to radicalize the millions of moderate Muslims than by goading the west into sescalating the conflict? Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer makes the same point in the opening paragraph of his bestselling book, Imperial Hubris:

"As I complete this book, U.S., British, and other coalition forces are trying to govern apparently ungovernable postwar states in Afghanistan and Iraq, while simultaneously fighting growing Islamist insurgencies in each – a state of affairs our leaders call victory. In conducting these activities, and the conventional military campaigns preceding them, U.S. forces and policies are completing the radicalization of the Islamic world, something Osama bin Laden has been trying to do with substantial but incomplete success since the early 1990s. As a result, I think it fair to conclude that the United States of America remains bin Laden's only indispensable ally."

And we'll firmly stand behind our brothers and sisters in the UK.

Oh wait, we have no military force to help them out anyway.

I'd just like to take this time to thank everyone who sold our sovereignty to the United States by relying on their military.

The United States and the United Kingdom have two of th emost powerful militarie sin the world, yet were unable to prevent terrorist attacks on thei rown soil. So there's no correlation between military strength and the ability to prevent and respond to terror threats. Canada would be wise to scrap its outdated, Third Genatration-style military and rebuild it with a focus on domestic security.

[I miss Reagan]

Precisely what bin Laden wants. If anyone bothered to look at the stated goals of Al Qaeda (if indeed, they are responsible for these attacks today), the expulsion o western forces and the removal of western influence on Islamic countires is only a step on the ultimate goal of re-establishing the Caliphate. In order to do that, bin Laden needs to get the Islamic world on his side. And what beter way to radicalize the millions of moderate Muslims than by goading the west into sescalating the conflict? Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer makes the same point in the opening paragraph of his bestselling book, Imperial Hubris:

Oh ya great thesis. Is bombing Saudi Arabia and killing Muslims all over the world in his terror campaigns part of his plan to win over the Muslim world. Was killing Egypt's ambassador today part of the plan to win over Egypt? Give me a break.

As for Michael Scheuer, I find it odd that you would hold a CIA analyst up so high considering your past statements about US intelligence and the CIA. It's is quite apparent that you'll believe anything as long as it is in line with your anti-American views. And Imperial Hubris was incredibly one sided. You find that out in the first few pages as he rips on Israel's stance on Palestine.

[Riverwind]

  Are you kidding?  The last thing they wanted was us "infidels" in their "Holy Lands".  They figured we'd just sit on our hands like the WTC attack in '91 or flee like we did in Mogadishu.

Wrong. They wanted the US to attack Islamic countries in order to provoke a backlash which, among other things, would cause a revolution in Saudi Arabia. They have not succeeded in this is objective even though the US has been more than willing to be the pawn of Al Queda.

They want to control our countries through fear.  They tasted success when they alter Spains elections.  They tasted success when they obliterated the US economy in 2001.  Unlike the Spaniards, the Brits will not back down.

Backing down and over-reacting are two different things. The sudden shift in popular opinion in Spain that led to the defeat of the pro-Iraq was probably an over reaction, however, it was also a rection to the incompentance the ruling party demostrated in the immediate aftermath of the bombings.

Although Brits are progressive, they have little tolerance for terrorism and will have even more resolve in hunting the Islamo- facists down.

Britain has a lot of experience dealing with terrorists in a measured way. However, I fear we will see another round of fear-mongering coming out of the US adminstration as it attempts to build a police state.

[Black Dog]

Is bombing Saudi Arabia and killing Muslims all over the world in his terror campaigns part of his plan to win over the Muslim world. Was killing Egypt's ambassador today part of the plan to win over Egypt? Give me a break.

Oh yes, I forgot: every bad thing that happens can be traced to Osama bin Laden. Did it ever ocur to you hat the above events might not be connected? Indeed, we still don't know if OBL was involved in the London incidents today.

In any case, there's no denying that the primary beneficiary of the war on terror's escalations have been Islamists. Iraq, thanks to the U.S. invasion, is a hotbed of terrorist training and activity (much like Afghanistan wa sin the 1980s). Anti-western sentiment is running high and we're certainly not any safer now than we were pre-9-11 (as today's events show).

Given the lack of progress so far and considering the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, would another escalation in response to these events make sense?

Let's see the perpatrators brought to justice. But that's a job for the spooks, the cops and the diplomats, not the infantry.

As for Michael Scheuer, I find it odd that you would hold a CIA analyst up so high considering your past statements about US intelligence and the CIA. It's is quite apparent that you'll believe anything as long as it is in line with your anti-American views. And Imperial Hubris was incredibly one sided. You find that out in the first few pages as he rips on Israel's stance on Palestine.

I trust he generally knows what he's talking about. Indeed, most of my statements regarding intelligence (specifically relating to Iraq) made it plain that the intelligence was manipulated by other interests and that the CIA's actual assessments were more cautious and equivocal than we were told.

As for one-sided: who said he had to be balanced?

[I miss Reagan]

The sudden shift in popular opinion in Spain that led to the defeat of the pro-Iraq was probably an over reaction, however, it was also a rection to the incompentance the ruling party demostrated in the immediate aftermath of the bombings.

Are you kidding? You seriously think that the election results were based on the publics assessment of the handleling of the aftermath? They voted based on fear.

As for one-sided: who said he had to be balanced?

No one but I guess I could start quoting Limbaugh, Savage, and Hannity to back up my points eh.

[Black Dog]

Are you kidding? You seriously think that the election results were based on the publics assessment of the handleling of the aftermath? They voted based on fear.

They voted based on dislike of Aznar and the Popular party, which joine dthe Iraq war against the wishes of the vast majority of Spaniards and then bugled the handling of the Madrid bombings by prematurely and tenaciously attributing the bombings to radical Basque separatist group. When evidence continued to mount that Al Qaeda, not ETA, was probably responsible for the atrocities, a good many Spanish voters concluded that the government was manipulating the tragedy for its own political advantage.

No one but I guess I could start quoting Limbaugh, Savage, and Hannity to back up my points eh.

You could, but then there's the issue of credibility. One can be one-sided and still be credible. one can be one sided and know what one is talking about. None the intellectual flyweights you named are experts on anything but ponificating. Hell, they're not even journalists.

[I miss Reagan]

You could, but then there's the issue of credibility. One can be one-sided and still be credible. one can be one sided and know what one is talking about. None the intellectual flyweights you named are experts on anything but ponificating. Hell, they're not even journalists.

Flyweights? LOL. Limbaugh is the most popular radio host in the US. Experts hmm Savage has a PHD does that count? How about O'Reilly would he be credible to you? he has a Masters degree from Harvard. But when can debate this somewhere else.

[August1991]

I first read about the reports this morning on the Internet, they described the explosions as an electrical problem, and then I went out. In the Moscow Metro this evening coming home, I sensed something but just assumed that it was the normal concern.

Canada has no city like London, Cairo, Bombay or Moscow. It is hard for Canadians to imagine life in such a city.

I recall the Oklahama bombing, thinking it was the act of a foreign terrorist (strike America in its geographic centre) - and then learning the truth later. These London bombs, like Madrid and the US planes, have all the makings of al Qaeda. But let's wait and see before deciding.

Our leaders will of course publicly deplore such acts. The smart ones will privately take measures to prevent them. On our side thankfully is modern reason.

[I miss Reagan]

You live in Moscow August?

[theloniusfleabag]

IMR,

Black Dog and Sparhawk are generally correct in their assessments.

As for Michael Scheuer, I find it odd that you would hold a CIA analyst up so high considering your past statements about US intelligence and the CIA. It's is quite apparent that you'll believe anything as long as it is in line with your anti-American views. And Imperial Hubris was incredibly one sided.

I also thought the book was great. In case you didn't read it all, it was one-sided...pro-american.

You find that out in the first few pages as he rips on Israel's stance on Palestine.

Indeed, he goes on to suggest that the US 'cut Israel loose' and focus solely on US interests. He suggests that the US either 'take off the gloves' or get used to the status quo, but the lying and self-serving, half-assed approach by the politicians and army brass is getting them nowhere fast.

As to London, what a shame, but not a surprise. Blair continues to parrot the nonsense about it being 'an attack on all civilized nations and upon freedom', when we all know this is absolute rubbish. Even the terrorists admit to the action and the motive! How much plainer do they have to be!?

[ScottBrison]

  Are you kidding?  The last thing they wanted was us "infidels" in their "Holy Lands".  They figured we'd just sit on our hands like the WTC attack in '91 or flee like we did in Mogadishu.  They want to control our countries through fear.  They tasted success when they alter Spains elections.  They tasted success when they obliterated the US economy in 2001.  Unlike the Spaniards, the Brits will not back down.  Although Brits are progressive, they have little tolerance for terrorism and will have even more resolve in hunting the Islamo- facists down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we'll firmly stand behind our brothers and sisters in the UK.

Oh wait, we have no military force to help them out anyway.

I'd just like to take this time to thank everyone who sold our sovereignty to the United States by relying on their military.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean the Conservatives cancelling the Avro Arrow? Or the current crop who wanted to be Bush's lap dog?

[Black Dog]

Flyweights? LOL. Limbaugh is the most popular radio host in the US. Experts hmm Savage has a PHD does that count? How about O'Reilly would he be credible to you? he has a Masters degree from Harvard. But when can debate this somewhere else.

Limbaugh's popularity has nothing to do with his knowledge of anything. I am willing to concede he knows more about oxycontin than I, but other than that, its a toss up. Savaga's PhD is in Nutritional Ethnomedicine, does that then make him an expert on...well anything uinrelated to Nutritional Ethnomedicine?

Our leaders will of course publicly deplore such acts. The smart ones will privately take measures to prevent them. On our side thankfully is modern reason.

The perpatrators believe (and many of "our" enlightened, reasoned elites agree) that there is a war going on. The London bombing, like other non-state terrorist activities before it, is a tactic, a means to an end. Not an irrational act of crazy people.

It's time sliek these that being "irrelevant" isn't such a bad thing.

[Muddyw67]

Rage! I feel terrible for our friends the British.  I don't really know what else to say right now, but whatever happens, we stand with Britain always.

I can only wonder what the impact will be once the focus shifts from recovery to finding those responsible.

-k

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It is truly awful that innocent Brits have to pay with their lives for the imperialist machinations of Blair a man of unbelievable mediocrity and a war criminal for leading his country into a an unnecessary war in Iraq. I do not stand with the British government nor do I wish our government to stand with them. They are war mongers and have the blood of thousands of innocent Iraqis on their hands.

Do you believe for one minute this attack would have occurred if Britain hadn't assume its old role of gunboat diplomacy and keeping the wogs in their place? Britain more then any country is responsible for the entire catastrophe in the Middle East because they created the Middle East in its present form after World War 1 and designed in in such a way that they could exploit their resources and keep the Arabs in a perpetual state of impotence and disarray. Kuwait was deliberately created so that Iraq couldn't have access to water thus keeping them dependent of Britain. Britain is a cunning old imperialist country who can still teach the US a thing or two about keeping the "lesser races" in their place.

[August1991]

You live in Moscow August?

For the past few weeks, on business.

It is truly awful that innocent Brits have to pay with their lives for the imperialist machinations of Blair a man of unbelievable mediocrity and a war criminal for leading his country into a an unnecessary war in Iraq.

Let us wait and find out the cause of these explosions before making judgments.

If this is the work of al Qaeda, then Britain is completely innocent of imperial machinations. Britain no more provoked the attack than did our decision to make gay marriages legal.

[I miss Reagan]

Black Dog and Sparhawk are generally correct in their assessments.

Well I suppose I have to disagree with your consensus.

I also thought the book was great. In case you didn't read it all, it was one-sided...pro-american.

Would that be pro-American as in Al Franken type of pro-American? All due respect Flea, I have a heard time swallowing that you would call any pro-American book "great".

non-state terrorist activities

Oh great. Is this the newest Chomskyism meant to insult the US and UK.

It's times like these that being "irrelevant" isn't such a bad thing.

While I'm always happy to not be targeted I'm reminded of a couple good quotes.

"Hi-diddle-diddle, the Radical Middle; T'was such a charming scene, As right or wrong we sailed along Half-way in-between." R.W. Grant

And of course Edmund Burke's classic: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

[I miss Reagan]

You live in Moscow August?

For the past few weeks, on business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They have a cool subway eh? Pretty majestic decorating. Tough to figure out where you are in that thing though.

If this is the work of al Qaeda, then Britain is completely innocent of imperial machinations.  Britain no more provoked the attack than did our decision to make gay marriages legal.

I understand the Al Queda group claiming responsibility is bringing up the crusades again. I always have to laugh when the usual suspects claim that the terrorism would stop if weren't for US/ British foreign policy. These thugs will always have a grude and an excuse to attack us.