Homosexuals and Children

[WordsAreDead]

Two wrongs  don't make a right

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And the winner for the most ignorant post I've ever seen is...

[Shady]

I personally don't think that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children. If there are suitable heterosexual couples available (and there always seems to be a long waiting list), then there doesn't seem to be a need to submit children to homosexual parents.

[Riverwind]

I personally don't think that homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children.  If there are suitable heterosexual couples available (and there always seems to be a long waiting list), then there doesn't seem to be a need to submit children to homosexual parents.

What about the case where one of the homsexual partners is the biological parent and wants their partner to have guardianship if something happens to them? This is the real issue for gays. I don't think there are a lot of gays who are seeking to adopt unrelated children.

[cybercoma]

  You do not have to lecture me on how to use a forum either as I am fully capable and understand how to do it.

I would never drem of doing such a thing

Anyone want to respond to my original statements? 

Sure thing!!!!

Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I have friends who were raised by gay parents, and who have turned out to be some of the nicest, most together, most caring and loving people I know.

I am sure many others will find fault with this.

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Hey cool. I have friends that were raised by gay parents that are really messed up.

[WordsAreDead]

Hey cool.  I have friends that were raised by gay parents that are really messed up.

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Messed up how?

[Black Dog]

Hey cool. I have friends that were raised by gay parents that are really messed up.

I can pretty much guarantee there the majoprity of messed up people come from "traditional" family backgrounds. Such is the nature of parenting.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had

And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn

By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern

And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.

It deepens like a coastal shelf.

Get out as early as you can,

And don't have any kids yourself

-Philip Larkin

[Guest eureka]

Agreed, Black Dog, though Larkun was quite messed up himself.

[Black Dog]

Agreed, Black Dog, though Larkun was quite messed up himself.

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Yup. A porn-obsessed, racist misanthrope who was raised by straight people.

[Shady]

What about the case where one of the homsexual partners is the biological parent and wants their partner to have guardianship if something happens to them?

I agree. Those cases should be treated differently.

[August1991]

I have said this before here. In the past, children were frequently raised in households of two or more women or two or more men. A stroll in any cemetery will convince anyone of the number of early deaths, frequently during childbirth, leaving children without a mother. Fathers frequently left home to work for long periods, or died at an early age.

There is no evidence at all that children raised in families with same sex parents, or same sex adults around them, are in any way diminished or affected by this fact alone.

[crazymf]

I have said this before here.  In the past, children were frequently raised in households of two or more women or two or more men.  A stroll in any cemetery will convince anyone of the number of early deaths, frequently during childbirth, leaving children without a mother.  Fathers frequently left home to work for long periods, or died at an early age.

There is no evidence at all that children raised in families with same sex parents, or same sex adults around them, are in any way diminished or affected by this fact alone.

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A kid needs a father and a mother. In a home where one is missing, the kid has to find a role model outside the home or will miss the vital influence of that parent. It's can't be good for a child in either case whether it's 2 queers for parents or one parent is missing or otherwise incapable of fulfilling the role model status. To me, it downgrades our society and leads people to more inner confusion about themselves and their role. And yes, I'm conservative and feel both a man and a woman, father and mother, should have distinct equal roles in society.

I place gay marriage as dysfunctional as a broken marriage. That's why I'm against it, because the government basically condones an erosion of it's own society.

Just my 2c.

[Renegade]

A kid needs a father and a mother. In a home where one is missing, the kid has to find a role model outside the home or will miss the vital influence of that parent. It's  can't be good for a child in either case whether it's 2 queers for parents or one parent is missing or otherwise incapable of fulfilling the role model status.  To me, it downgrades our society and leads people to more inner confusion about themselves and their role. And yes, I'm conservative and feel both a man and a woman, father and mother, should have distinct equal roles in society.

I place gay marriage as dysfunctional as a broken marriage. That's why I'm against it, because the government basically condones an erosion of it's own society.

Just my 2c.

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The love and care shown by parents toward their children is way more important than the gender of each parent. Having opposite gender parents gives a child no more chance of having proper role models than does having same-sex parents. In some ways the child is better off because they are raised in a more tolerant environment. I fail to see how this is an erosion of society.

[crazymf]

A kid needs a father and a mother. In a home where one is missing, the kid has to find a role model outside the home or will miss the vital influence of that parent. It's  can't be good for a child in either case whether it's 2 queers for parents or one parent is missing or otherwise incapable of fulfilling the role model status.  To me, it downgrades our society and leads people to more inner confusion about themselves and their role. And yes, I'm conservative and feel both a man and a woman, father and mother, should have distinct equal roles in society.

I place gay marriage as dysfunctional as a broken marriage. That's why I'm against it, because the government basically condones an erosion of it's own society.

Just my 2c.

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The love and care shown by parents toward their children is way more important than the gender of each parent. Having opposite gender parents gives a child no more chance of having proper role models than does having same-sex parents. In some ways the child is better off because they are raised in a more tolerant environment. I fail to see how this is an erosion of society.

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You fail to see how not having a father and a mother is an erosion of society? Men and women are 2 essential parts of society. If you take either of them away totally, there will be no society. Condoning life where one or the other gender is absent is absurd. It's not natural or normal. I correct myself slightly. Unfortunately, single parent homes are becoming normal. I don't agree with either gay marriage or divorce/separation. In the case of a deceased spouse, the living spouse has a bad situation to deal with but not by choice.

[Renegade]

You fail to see how not having a father and a mother is an erosion of society? Men and women are 2 essential parts of society. If you take either of them away totally, there will be no society.

Both men and women are only necessary for biological procreation. You can still have a family without having necessarily both men and women. Society should not have a single and narrow definition of a family, but should be both inclusive and flexible in its definition.

Condoning life where one or the other gender is absent is absurd. It's not natural or normal. I correct myself slightly. Unfortunately, single parent homes are becoming normal. I don't agree with either gay marriage or divorce/separation. In the case of a deceased spouse, the living spouse has a bad situation to deal with but not by choice.

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I'd like to understand your logic.

Since you are against divorce/separation (and I presume single unwed parents), lets take teh example of a mother with a deceased spouse. Are you saying that such a family is one which you consider "normal"? Do the kids have a chance of being "normal"?

If so, and having one mother still makes the family "normal", why should having two be any more determental and not benefical? How can a one mother family be "normal" but two mothers "absurd"

[Melanie_]

There are entire societies based on a matriarchal structure, where children are raised by the mother and her sisters, aunts, cousins, etc, with the father being a more distant figure. "Normal" is in the eye of the beholder.

I agree with Renegade; having a stable, loving, nurturing home, regardless of the gender of the parents, gives a child the best base to grow from.

[Black Dog]

n a home where one is missing, the kid has to find a role model outside the home or will miss the vital influence of that parent. It's can't be good for a child in either case whether it's 2 queers for parents or one parent is missing or otherwise incapable of fulfilling the role model status.

Well gee, there's plenty of examples of people raised in the traditional (read: western) family dynamic who ended up totally screwed up because the parents were terrible parents. Gender isn't the issue at all: some people just shouldn't have kids.

[mcqueen625]

The government and the courts can make all the proclaimations they want in favour of SSM but the truth is that regardless of whatever legislation, this concept will never be accepted as being normal to many Canadians including myself. I believe that God made man and woman for procreating the human race and this is not possible with two people of the same gender having sex. If homosexuality is as normal as proponents would have us believe, then tell me where the hum race would be in just a few years if all humans on earth today became homosexual? Call that hate or homophobia or whatever you like but that is simply a fact of life. I was not brought up to hate homosexual's as people, but I was brought up to not accept this lifestyle choice, and the act of homosexual sex as being normal.

As for homosexual couple adopting children, I believe that these children will never be accepted as coming from a normal family regardless of what our legislators and judiciary proclaim from their towers. The children themselves will quickly realize that there is definitely something wrong with having two mommies or two daddies living as married couples, especially when they become old enough to realize that thier mommy's or daddy's can give them a brother or sister like most other parents can. No this is definitely not a normal or healthy way to bring up a child.

[mcqueen625]

There are entire societies based on a matriarchal structure, where children are raised by the mother and her sisters, aunts, cousins, etc, with the father being a more distant figure. "Normal" is in the eye of the beholder.

I agree with Renegade; having a stable, loving, nurturing home, regardless of the gender of the parents, gives a child the best base to grow from.

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Now that sound like something right out of a social engineering 101 textbook. If you tell it to people long enough they may just get to believe it and accept it as normal, something like living in prison eventually will make people institutionalized and they can no longer function outside of a prison or like institution.I have worked as a YOuth Worker with a number of children who grew up in that type of atmosphere, and without a doubt virtually all were ostracized and made fun of by classmates. I don't buy it for one minute.

[mcqueen625]

A girlfriend my son once had came from just such a home, mother lesbian, father bi, and both parent's bringing home their boyfriend's and girlfriend. You won't find a more screwed-up kid. After my son had had enough of her weird behaviour she wound up sleepig with anyone who would tell her they loved her. last time I heard of her she was hanging out with the roadies from the fair circuit, and wound up pregnant by she knows not who.

I also spent a number of years working with male young offenders in an open custody type setting and several of my formenr clients came from that background and none had a healthy respect for members of the opposite sex. They viewed them solely as something to use and throw away. One client actually told me that both mom and dad brought home strangers of the same sex, and engaged in sexual activity in front of him. He had been removed several times by child-protection workers, but when he became 16 he simply moved back in with his parents. He said they were his parents and he loved them. This kid wound up molesting young children, and saw nothing wrong with what he did.

[Black Dog]

If homosexuality is as normal as proponents would have us believe, then tell me where the hum race would be in just a few years if all humans on earth today became homosexual?

Well, given that homosexuals have existed as long as people, and is quite common innature as well, its hard to argue its unnatural.

A girlfriend my son once had came from just such a home, blah blah blah.

Again: the point is kids can get messed up regardles sof their parents sexual orintation or appetites. The examples you post (if true) are not examples of the "stable, loving, nurturing home" environment we're talking about. Nor are they necessarily indicative of homosexual couples in general, anymore than the endless examples of horrible "traditonal" parents are inicative of all such parenting structures.

Again: "having a stable, loving, nurturing home, regardless of the gender of the parents, gives a child the best base to grow from."

[Yodeler]

I can pretty much guarantee there the majoprity of messed up people come from "traditional" family backgrounds. Such is the nature of parenting.

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"Children begin by loving their parents;

as they grow older they judge them;

sometimes they forgive them." - Oscar Wilde

[redhead_pt]

Religions make claim to a message of love notwithstanding, yet such loathing superiority in their attitude toward same-sex marriage is a display of anything but. Why would such institutions, so privileged as to enjoy protection under our constitution, seek to withhold those same freedoms to other minorities? The church was initially opposed to equality for blacks, women – something we now hold to be their undeniable right. Why should people who seek only to be treated as equals under the law endure such angst? Most of all, perhaps, from religious persons who make claim to supposed “higher moral character” which is naught more than a façade for their discrimination and hatred. On the political front, I do not even believe that a free vote is here in order. Conservatives may tout it as “the only democratic resolution,” yet true democracy goes well beyond the limits of majority rule, especially when dealing with minority rights. The essence of our democracy lies in our equality – irrespective of age, sex, religion, race, and in this case sexual orientation.

What is to fear by granting same-sex couples the right to marry? It does nothing to lessen neither the meaning nor quality of heterosexual unions. The meaning of marriage should be rooted in love and commitment and it is here that the age-old truism “love is blind” proves true - even in the case of gender. Homosexuals should not be refused that choice on account of that over which they have no control or choice.

[crazymf]

deleted because I really don't care

[Leafless]

This issue is so off base it's senseless.

Homosexuals lay claim to the right of homosexuality but society as a whole does not.

It is for this very reason that discrimination will be ineviatable for some or all children of homosexual parents.

Homosexuals who shout out bigot at those who reject homosexuals and children raised by homosexuals forget that the key word in bigotry is 'obstinate' which in this case justifies bigotry since the 'adhering to one's chosen course' could be backed up by a major religion, tradition or a combination of both including morals along with good old fashion common sense.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Homosexuals lay claim to the right of homosexuality but society as a whole does not.

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The what? I'm pretty sure that society as a whole has permitted homosexuality (ie. homosexual acts) in most jurisdictions of Canada for quite some time now. The right to equal treatment is the issue, not the "right of homosexuality."

It is for this very reason that discrimination will be ineviatable for some or all children of homosexual parents.

That is likely true. The blame and punishment for discrimination ought to fall on the people doing the discriminating, and not on the people being discriminated against.

Homosexuals who shout out bigot at those who reject homosexuals and children raised by homosexuals forget that the key word in bigotry is 'obstinate' which in this case justifies bigotry since the 'adhering to one's chosen course' could be backed up by a major religion, tradition or a combination of both including morals along with good old fashion common sense.

Backed up by a major religion? Kind of like the anti-semitism of yesteryear? But hey, make the case on moral grounds. I'm all ears.