Homosexuals and Children

[Grantler]

Should homosexual couples be allowed to adopt children?

This is going to become the next debate once marriage is over with so I want to get a jumpstart on the debate.

What are the positives/negatives here?

[Tawasakm]

This issue has been raised in other threads. I suggest you perform a search and read through them first.

In fact you should always search through existing threads before beginning a new one to avoid duplication.

[Grantler]

Sorry but I do not see this thread in this religious forum within the past 30 days. It may be in the other forums or prior to 30 days but I want to see the religious side of this argument along with all others without going back months or even years.

You do not have to lecture me on how to use a forum either as I am fully capable and understand how to do it.

Anyone want to respond to my original statements?

[PocketRocket]

  You do not have to lecture me on how to use a forum either as I am fully capable and understand how to do it.

I would never drem of doing such a thing

Anyone want to respond to my original statements? 

Sure thing!!!!

Personally, I don't see a problem with it. I have friends who were raised by gay parents, and who have turned out to be some of the nicest, most together, most caring and loving people I know.

I am sure many others will find fault with this.

[Shakeyhands]

Absolutely.

a) they are no different from hetero parents parents

why the hell not? (not much of a stand but whatever..)

c) it doesn't matter if ita 2 X Men or 2 X women or one of each, as long as the child is raised to be productive and is loved.

[Chloe]

Well its already being done legally so I'm not to sure as to why it would become the next debate.

Look people, homosexuals have every possible thing they ever wanted, they are able to work for a living, hell we have prominant leaders in government and the business world that are openly gay but still retain their positons. Gays and Lesbsians are able to adopt apply for social security, buy a home, become musicians, work at a bar, cook clean, breath, and the list goes on...the only thing that they don't have is "Marriage" its ridiculous and ludicrous for them to say their rights are being deprived in any way...they have EVERY SINGLE ONE available to heterosexuals with the exception of marriage.

This is what I don't get. Homosexuals are not being deprived of any basic rights, they are not being deprived of living togther, having a union, holding a job to maintain their basic needs, they have the media on their side, they have the governement on their side. They are not being deprived of their basic right to live and function in society so why is it that we say they are being deprived of their MOST basic right...the most basic right is to be toghther regardless of whether they are married or not and they aren't being deprived of that right to be together. Society hardley shones them, I mean I could go and on and on ...people encourage their existance.

I also don't understand what the hurry is. No other country with the exception of two legalize gay marriages. Martin can completely ignore victimes who DON'T have a voice when it comes to conviciting the guilty in criminal court cases, children can continue to be exploited by perverse pedophiles, gun laws, the justice system in general can continue to be discriminatory against those it convicts of a crime...but the world will come to an end if we don't legalize gay marriage.

The whole issue is preposterous and may I add annoying.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I can tell you that homosexuals are already allowed to adopt children in Alberta. I can also tell you that a homosexual couple has a roughly 0% chance of passing their home study in Alberta.

[moderateamericain]

personelly, until there is a study done showing that children adopted by gay couples is somehow affected in a negative way, i dont see the problem, a parent is a parent, gay straight doesnt matter to me, as long as they are GOOD parents, thats what really counts.

[Fortunata]

Homosexual couples adopting and raising children is not a good idea BECAUSE some aspects of society will always make that child feel they are being raised abnormally or differently and they are lessor because of it. Until the world around them becomes tolerant and accepting of it there is a problem in my view. It's not fair but life's like that.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Homosexual couples adopting and raising children is not a good idea BECAUSE some aspects of society will always make that child feel they are being raised abnormally or differently and they are lessor because of it. Until the world around them becomes tolerant and accepting of it there is a problem in my view. It's not fair but life's like that.

So as long as bigots are bigots, there can be no justice? We must accept ignorance and tolerance because people are ignorant and tolerant?

I understand that this may cause a problem for the children. But the ignorance of some people is no reason to deny others the choice of adopting a child. And the problems faced by the child are caused by the bigots, not the homosexuals.

[Digby]

It seems to me to be very unfair to the children .

I imagine they will be teased ect their whole life for something they had no choice in .

It just seems unfair to me , im glad i was not raised in a situation like this .

Of cource i agree there is alot of children in worse situations in this society today.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Look people, homosexuals have every possible thing they ever wanted, they are able to work for a living, hell we have prominant leaders in government and the business world that are openly gay but still retain their positons. Gays and Lesbsians are able to adopt apply for social security, buy a home, become musicians, work at a bar, cook clean, breath,  and the list goes on...the only thing that they don't have is "Marriage" its ridiculous and ludicrous for them to say their rights are being deprived in any way...they have EVERY SINGLE ONE available to heterosexuals with the exception of marriage.

No one has a 'right' to marriage. The state creates an optional social status called marriage and provides certain legal implications.

Citizens have the right to be equal before the law. Therefore no government program, be it student loans, or CPP, or marriage is allowed to be provided unequally.

This is what I don't get. Homosexuals are not being deprived of any basic rights, they are not being deprived of living togther, having a union, holding a job to maintain their basic needs, they have the media on their side, they have the governement on their side.

Listing the many areas in which homosexuals are accorded thier right to equality does not alleviate or change the fact that there is one area where they are not.

They are not being deprived of their basic right to live and function in society ...

They have, like everyone else, more than just that right, i.e. to be treated equally by the government.

I also don't understand what the hurry is.

Once it is established that someone is entitled to something, there is no cause for delay. If your house burns down, and the insurer wonders what your hurry for your cheque is, how would you feel?

The whole issue is preposterous and may I add annoying.

Well, why not just ignore it, and tell your MP you don't want her to make an issue of it.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Homosexual couples adopting and raising children is not a good idea BECAUSE some aspects of society will always make that child feel they are being raised abnormally or differently and they are lessor because of it.  Until the world around them becomes tolerant and accepting of it there is a problem in my view.  It's not fair but life's like that.

So as long as bigots are bigots, there can be no justice? We must accept ignorance and tolerance because people are ignorant and tolerant?

I understand that this may cause a problem for the children. But the ignorance of some people is no reason to deny others the choice of adopting a child. And the problems faced by the child are caused by the bigots, not the homosexuals.

Yes, but if your primary interest is the best interests of the adoptive child, it is a valid question whether they should be recruited to endure the alleged social stigma.

Of course, to answer the question one needs to consider how much risk the alleged stigma really imposes, and how badly it might affect a child in the context of the real world.

[kimmy]

Yes, but if your primary interest is the best interests of the adoptive child, it is a valid question whether they should be recruited to endure the alleged social stigma.

Of course, to answer the question one needs to consider how much risk the alleged stigma really imposes, and how badly it might affect a child in the context of the real world.

I think that's true, unfortunately. There's the "ivory tower" outlook, and then there's the "playground" outlook, and while discussing it in ivory tower terms is fine for us on a message board, I think some consideration needs to be given to the child who will actually be out in the playground.

Having said that, there are so many unspeakably shitty heterosexual parents in our society that the idea of excluding people who might very well make excellent parents is very depressing to me.

I was watching the news yesterday and saw the Edmonton woman who was bitching about the daycare that accidentally locked her son inside (she was late picking up her son because she'd been in a bar drinking all afternoon, of course.) And watching this idiot struggle to form complete sentences, watching her disrupted speech patterns, I felt quite certain that she's got permanent brain damage, most likely self-inflicted by chemical means. She had all the mannerisms of long term substance abusers who've damanged themselves beyond repair. And she's got another child, quite visibly from a different father than the first. Her kids just don't stand a chance. They'll spend more time in juvenile detention than in high-school. There's no doubt in my mind.

To think that this dust-head can go have as many kids as she wants, from as many fathers as she wants. To think that some of the intelligent, successful, responsible, articulate homosexual couples we've seen on TV during the gay marriage debates might be excluded from raising children by biased adoption procedures. To me, that's depressing.

Gay parents won't be the ruination of our society. Stupid parents will.

-kimmy

[Digby]

Two wrongs don't make a right

[The Terrible Sweal]

Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Jim1989]

Well if they would raise the children the same as any normal family would and let the children decide if they would be homosexual or not then it should be aloud but if they begin to bring on homosexuality into the childrens life and begin pressuring it on them then no.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Well if they would raise the children the same as any normal family would and let the children decide if they would be homosexual or not then it should be aloud but if they begin to bring on homosexuality into the childrens life and begin pressuring it on them then no.

I find it interesting that society as a whole doesn't react with outrage when families pressure their homosexual children to be straight, even going so far as to disown them. But the mere thought of it happening to heterosexual children lights up the lines on radio talk shows and internet forums. What is wrong with people?

[Fortunata]

I find it interesting that society as a whole doesn't react with outrage when families pressure their homosexual children to be straight, even going so far as to disown them. But the mere thought of it happening to heterosexual children lights up the lines on radio talk shows and internet forums. What is wrong with people?

Exactly.

It might shock some people to know that most homosexuals are the products of heterosexuals. Now if homosexuals can influence children to be like them, why are they homosexual to start with? Surely the heterosexual parents brought their children up heterosexually?

I think that life could be tougher for children of a homosexual couple than a heterosexual couple that neglect or abuse their children. It's not fair and it's not right but that's life.

Once homosexual marriages are accepted by the majority of the population and people (especially children) get used to seeing that type of family, it will then become a non-issue. I'm just not sure we are at that point yet and I have no idea of how long it will take to get there. One thing for sure, it will take longer if adults teach their children their biases and hatreds.

[Black Dog]

It might shock some people to know that most homosexuals are the products of heterosexuals. Now if homosexuals can influence children to be like them, why are they homosexual to start with? Surely the heterosexual parents brought their children up heterosexually?

Ah, but perhaps they influenced them by accident. For example, suppose Mommy spent a little too much time teaching little Timmy the value of good grooming. Or perhaps parents let little Sally play with her big brothers GI. Joe's instead of Barbie's Dream Home. You don't know what subtle, insidious things negligent parents could do to give their children The Gay.

[Noodlez]

Of cource they should be aloud to adopt childen. I strongly believe we should all be treated equal. It doesn't matter if We're Gay, Straight, black, white, atheist, Muslim, Christian, ect. We are all human. Many people tend to forget that.

But, unfortunly... Most of the population doesn't see it that way. They child will most likely be harassed by their peers just because their parents are homosexuals. -__-

[SirSpanky]

I don't think you can blame them for that though. Kids are us, without any of the "nurture" (as in nature vs. nurture) that society has instilled in us. We fear things different or unknown, and react the way we have for thousands of years; lashing out.

[Melanie_]

Gays and lesbians raise their biological children, and studies have shown that there are no adverse effects (its summer time, and I don't have my text books at hand, but every child development text I have ever taught from has made this statement). Why should adopted children be any different?

[theloniusfleabag]

I find it interesting that society as a whole doesn't react with outrage when families pressure their homosexual children to be straight, even going so far as to disown them.

It might shock some people to know that most homosexuals are the products of heterosexuals.

Two excellent points. I think Stanley Kubrick said it best, with "Don't worry lad, I can make you better..."

[crazymf]

Who am I to say? It's not my cup of tea. I started off thinking no way then asked myself, "what's worse, an orphanage or foster home, or a fag house where the queers at least love the kid?" It's a twisted concept, but somehow not a black and white answer.

There's a lot of useless people out there that aren't gay with no morals who marry and divorce at the drop of a hat, uneducated etc. The kids are the ones who suffer through all that crap. If a couple queers want to raise a kid and live their life honestly and with as much integrity as possible, I can live with that.

I'm just not sure I'd send my kids over for a sleepover though. One step at a time.