Has the Trudeau government's trade strategy failed?

[turningrite]

12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Compared to what ?   Post WW2 ?  Post Cold War ?  

Do you long for the good old days when Canada could rest easy behind the USA's skirt and "trust" the American economy for salvation ?

The world is changing, just as it always has.    Trump is right to criticize Canadian and Euro deadbeat NATO members.

Others note that Canada and Europe have nothing else to run to....they still need the Americans, led by the Ugliest American, Donald Trump.

Senator McCain is dead, and so is the old Republican guard that Donald Trump destroyed in 2016.  

You're rambling. When even objective commentators on the American right are noting America's declining influence and prestige in the Trump era, something is going on. Trump has a penchant for strongman governance, perhaps reflecting some kind of personality issue on his part. But does this benefit his country? Hmmm... The emerging evidence is that it doesn't. In Britain, which has long prized its "special relationship" with the U.S. authorities wouldn't risk permitting Trump anywhere near central London, feting him (because they had little choice) essentially in private at Blenheim Castle, near Oxford. Imagine having to hide any other major world leader?

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

You're rambling. When even objective commentators on the American right are noting America's declining influence and prestige in the Trump era, something is going on.

 

...and you're obsessed with Trump, ignoring a much longer time horizon with ebb and flow in American "influence".   Others said similar things about Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc. depending on what the crisis of the day may have been.  

Speaking of rambling, how did this topic about Team Trudeau's trade failure pivot to the death of American influence anyway ?

Some Canadians like to play this game, going back to America's "fake" moon landings and the Vietnam War (even though Canada profited from both).   The same schizo crowd who wanted a break on tariffs as a Normandy Beach "ally" have also crowed about burning down the White House in the War of 1812.

Go find another superpower to complain about if the USA is done.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[taxme]

22 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canada has no domestically owned auto makes...all are foreign, and their share of sales has not been reduced because Ontario has lost many plants/jobs.   What is Canada going to do, go back to building McLaughlins or Bricklins?   The best selling vehicle in Canada is the Ford F-150 pickup truck, built in the evil USA.

The Germans and Japanese also love Mexico for building autos...much more than Canada.

 

 

C'mon...Mexico already gutted Canadian jobs with that NAFTA, low wage sucking sound.  

Trudeau was dumber than a bag of hammers to believe Mexico would roll over for Canada.

Hey, how dare you insult all hammers. LOL. You pizzed off my hammer.   At least hammers are useful and are good for something where Trudeau is good for nothing. 

Our low Canadian peso proves and shows us all that our politically correct puppet on a string politicians are responsible for the low Canadian peso. Trump has lowered the American debt from 900 billion to 500 billion while our Canadian debt always keeps going up. Trump must be doing something right for his people and his country. Trudeau? Well, that is another sob and sad story. 

 

[Argus]

15 hours ago, turningrite said:

Outside of the U.S., Trump's MAGA motto is increasing transforming into Make America Go Away. The late Sen. John McCain apparently believed America would renew itself and recover from Trump. Maybe. Maybe not

When both your foreign and trade policy resembles a big bully striding along a beach kicking sand in everyone's face and laughing - because he can - you can't expect to have much in the way of friends or admirers. Chinese and Russian influence is growing around the world while American influence is declining.

 

[turningrite]

37 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Go find another superpower to complain about if the USA is done.

 

Yup, it's done like dinner. Its superpower days are over.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, turningrite said:

Yup, it's done like dinner. Its superpower days are over.

 

Something Canada will never, ever experience.   Today, Canada is barely a weakling "middle power", even outfoxed by Mexico.

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

Yup, it's done like dinner. Its superpower days are over.

 

America can build 'crates' like Seawolf class submarines that use HY-100 steel for the hulls. I don't think China or Russia can do that. That's impressive welding. 

[Hudson Jones]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

Our low Canadian peso proves and shows us all that our politically correct puppet on a string politicians are responsible for the low Canadian peso.

It's fashionable to blame that on Trudeau, but our dollar follows oil prices. 

[Argus]

36 minutes ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's fashionable to blame that on Trudeau, but our dollar follows oil prices. 

Oil prices were up today. But the Canadian dollar took a major hit anyway. Gee, I wonder why. 

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's fashionable to blame that on Trudeau, but our dollar follows oil prices. 

That's BS and you know it.....Our dollar is dependent on a lot of things , mostly oil, but don't think that this trade deal is not playing with our dollar...because it is....and that failure is all on Justin.....

Edited August 31, 2018 by Army Guy

[turningrite]

21 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Something Canada will never, ever experience.   Today, Canada is barely a weakling "middle power", even outfoxed by Mexico.

Canada has never aspired to be a superpower. It's only objective has been to survive.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Canada has never aspired to be a superpower. It's only objective has been to survive.

 

Agreed...rejected by Britain and France, Canada had to turn to those bastard Americans for its (economic and military) survival.

[Centerpiece]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...rejected by Britain and France, Canada had to turn to those bastard Americans for its (economic and military) survival.

With Trudeau at the rudderless helm, we have become a nation of virtue signalling hypocrites, ashamed of our history, ruining our future and lacking any respect on the world stage.

With Harper, we didn't try to be something we were not......but he still told Putin to get out of the Ukraine - to his face. And he gave China the cold shoulder for 4 or 5 years (to the shrill cries of his critics) to show them he walked the talk on Human Rights - before carefully starting to engage them on trade. He called Iran out for their sponsorship of terror. He was respected by world leaders - especially Angela Merkel. He treated the UN as the useless, unelected busybodies they are. The only elements that didn't like him were the UN (of course) and the eco-nut lobby......say no more.

I want my Canada back!

[turningrite]

Just in: Toronto Star reports that Trump told reporters that U.S. conditions for a NAFTA deal will be so insulting to Canada that we won't be able to agree to them. Is it even worthwhile to continue or will the Trudeau government be sufficiently obsequious to get a deal of some kind or any kind as it's clear it has no "Plan B" to fall back on? It looks like Canada has completely lost here.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/08/31/bombshell-leak-to-toronto-star-upends-nafta-talks-in-secret-so-insulting-remarks-trump-says-he-isnt-compromising-at-all-with-canada.html

[bush_cheney2004]

Trump is just playing with Canada now....just toss Trudeau and Freeland a small bone and call it a day.  

All Trudeau needs is some BS about victory for "Canadian values" for his base in Canada.

 

Quote

“Off the record, Canada’s working their ass off. And every time we have a problem with a point, I just put up a picture of a Chevrolet Impala,” Trump said

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[taxme]

23 hours ago, Argus said:

When both your foreign and trade policy resembles a big bully striding along a beach kicking sand in everyone's face and laughing - because he can - you can't expect to have much in the way of friends or admirers. Chinese and Russian influence is growing around the world while American influence is declining.

 

Trump does not give a shit about the rest of the world. Trump is concerned with trying to "make America great again". You are just jealous because you have a prime mistake as a leader that is doing just the opposite. Trying to destroy Canada. I wish that Canada had a leader like Trump, a no nonsense leader. Go, Trump, go. 

[taxme]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump is just playing with Canada now....just toss Trudeau and Freeland a small bone and call it a day.  

All Trudeau needs is some BS about victory for "Canadian values" for his base in Canada.

 

 

Better still Canadians should just toss Trudeau and Freeland out the door and on their ass. All they are doing is trying to protect Quebec's ass. In Canada it is all about Quebec and special interest groups and nothing more. In Canada the majority does not rule and pretty much never has. If the majority did rule, Quebec would have been gone decades ago. Trudeau won't be getting any victory for his base in Quebec out of these NAFTA talks. Just grief. Geez, does Canada have any values anymore? Just wondering. 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

Just in: Toronto Star reports that Trump told reporters that U.S. conditions for a NAFTA deal will be so insulting to Canada that we won't be able to agree to them. Is it even worthwhile to continue or will the Trudeau government be sufficiently obsequious to get a deal of some kind or any kind as it's clear it has no "Plan B" to fall back on? It looks like Canada has completely lost here.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/08/31/bombshell-leak-to-toronto-star-upends-nafta-talks-in-secret-so-insulting-remarks-trump-says-he-isnt-compromising-at-all-with-canada.html

Canada better take whatever Trump has to offer because if we do not then it will be Canada and Canadians that will lose and suffer here. What our politicians should have been doing all these decades was to try and make Canada great.  But instead all they ever want to think about and promote is multiculturalism and diversity because that is suppose to be Canada's strength. Such hogwash. That is what is going to make Canada lose whatever strength it has left. 

We have a pipeline that cannot get built because of some whiny bunch of Indians and environmentalists who only seem bent on trying to destroy Canada and not make it great. It's always about small and tiny special interest minority groups who get to rule and ruin Canada from developing all the resources that Canada has which can create tens of thousands of new jobs for Canadians. Canada needs more conservative capitalism and less liberal socialism. 

[taxme]

20 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's fashionable to blame that on Trudeau, but our dollar follows oil prices. 

And our Canadian peso could only get worse if this NAFTA deal bombs. It use to be that if the oil went up so did the dollar. What the hell is going on in this country? Is it only the banksters that make money here? It dam well looks like it. It is quite reasonable to assume that the reason for our low dollar is because of our continual wasting of our tax dollars by our wasteful spending politicians. I don't believe that being in a massive debt situation is good for Canada or for our Canadian peso.  

Edited August 31, 2018 by taxme

[taxme]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:21 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Something Canada will never, ever experience.   Today, Canada is barely a weakling "middle power", even outfoxed by Mexico.

Christ, I think that Canada could be outfoxed by Somali with the leaders we have in this not so great country anymore. 

[Hudson Jones]

Trump can't just kill NAFTA. It's not that simple. El Presidente doesn't have that much power.

Mexico might be agreeing to some concessions, but Canada does have an upper hand. Canada has the U.S. states on its side, as there are numerous states who disagree with Trump on making any changes to the trade agreement. 

The usual people here, who blame stepping on dog shit on Trudeau, want to blame Trump's style of so-called negotiation, on Trudeau. Kind of like the hissy fit by Saudi Arabia showed, when Canada made a comment like they usually do about human rights. The usual suspects blamed Trudeau for S.A.'s hissy fit.

Trump believes he has the upper hand in all of these agreements. To a point, he does. However, now he is trying to bully his way through agreements, treaties and foreign policy without really looking at the big picture.

Have you asked yourself, what has Trump accomplished with his style so far?

Take North Korea for example: Is North Korea disarmed? Not really. Is it going that way? Not really. Does Trump even have a plan or an agreement in place? Not really.

What about the backlash Trump has received for his work permit and immigration stance? When you have an overwhelmingly number of tech workers from outside of U.S.

Trump is all huff and puff, and the idiots fall for it.

What do the experts say about the potential of NAFTA being canceled?

Here is Phil Levy, senior economist for trade on President George W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisers:

It took Congress to pass NAFTA and it should take Congress to kill NAFTA. These agreements are not treaties, but rather international deals that only come into effect when Congress passes “implementing legislation.”

As things stand, there is some ambiguity, because the agreement itself allows for countries to withdraw, and the president would be the one to initiate such a withdrawal. But a president should not be able to revoke a law unilaterally. Further, the Constitution grants Congress, not the president, the power “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations.”

Congress could pass new legislation clarifying this constitutional assignment of responsibilities. One might expect the White House to oppose any diminution of its power, but we’ve already seen Congress overcome such reluctance in the case of sanctions on Russia. To do it here would require some bipartisan understanding of the damage NAFTA withdrawal would do.

Here is Rob Scott, director of trade and manufacturing, Economic Policy Institute:

Trump can withdraw from parts of NAFTA without the consent of Congress, but it would have limited effects on trade or investment with Mexico or Canada.

The NAFTA Implementation Act, which cannot be revoked without the consent of Congress, says that if a country ceases to be a NAFTA partner, then tariff provisions of the agreement — rules that say that internationally traded goods are free from border taxes — will cease to be in effect. However, many other aspects of NAFTA would remain in effect, including provisions on government procurement, labor, and environmental conditions, services trade, and arbitration proceedings.

Also, if NAFTA were revoked, the president would be free to raise tariffs, but only to levels agreed to under the World Trade Organization — the so-called most-favored-nation rates. Under those rates, tariffs on imported goods are only 2.7 percent for the United States, 4.6 percent for Mexico, and 2.4 percent for Canada. While noticeable, these tariffs would not cause large initial trade disruptions.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Hudson Jones

[Hudson Jones]

22 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That's BS and you know it.....

And then...

22 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Our dollar is dependent on a lot of things , mostly oil

You're a superstar!

[Hudson Jones]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

And our Canadian peso could only get worse if this NAFTA deal bombs.

The potential bombing of NAFTA doesn't have anything to do with Trudeau. I never voted for Trudeau and will never vote for him. But c'mon. Stop being one of those people who tries to fault EVERYTHING on Trudeau. Trump is trying to bully people into accepting whatever he wants. He's not even consulting with the States to see how a change in NAFTA could effect him. He's all hot air. That's all he is. After all of this hot air and stage acting, he'll end up making a couple minor changes and then call it a win. There are too many states that need NAFTA to continue as it is. Their number one partner in trade is Canada and there is the reliance on immigration to fill skilled position that they're not able to find any Americans to do.

4 hours ago, taxme said:

It use to be that if the oil went up so did the dollar. What the hell is going on in this country? Is it only the banksters that make money here? It dam well looks like it.

Yes. Bankers and energy companies who lobby not only Trudeau, but also they did with Harper and they do with Trump. Find it in yourself to look at the system and not at individuals. EVERY one of these politicians (Trudeau/Trump/Harper) have learned to accept the system, in order to be able to continue to stay in power. 

4 hours ago, taxme said:

It is quite reasonable to assume that the reason for our low dollar is because of our continual wasting of our tax dollars by our wasteful spending politicians. I don't believe that being in a massive debt situation is good for Canada or for our Canadian peso.  

It's oil prices. Canada's economy, at least compared to the Harper., is actually doing better.

Unemployment rate?

 

What you can argue is federal spending, where Trudeau has set records. But this was not done secretly or without notice. He ran on increasing spending. I may not agree with it, but he ran on a platform where he said he is going to increase spending, including money towards infrastructure:

But then again, Trudeau's spending is not much different than Harper's. Important to note that Trudeau is spending during a time where the economy is doing well, where Harper had to deal with the world economic down turn. That said, Harper's last few years included some of the highest spending anyway:

With the Liberals planning to spend $8,337 per person in 2017, the government of Justin Trudeau is close to breaking the all-time record for per-capita federal expenditures, according to a new report by the Fraser Institute.

The number one spot, however, remains Stephen Harper. The Conservative leader hit a per-Canadian total of $8,375 in 2009 when he was overseeing spending increases intended to counteract the effects of the global recession. 

Note that liberal's spending, Chretien! 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Hudson Jones said:

The potential bombing of NAFTA doesn't have anything to do with Trudeau. I never voted for Trudeau and will never vote for him. But c'mon. Stop being one of those people who tries to fault EVERYTHING on Trudeau.

We don't know how much of this is Trudeau's fault. Early on it seemed like Canada was an afterthought, and Trump was fixated on Mexico. The US made it clear they wanted to do a deal with us, to get that off the table, and then focus on Mexico. We don't know why that didn't happen since we don't know precisely what the two sides got hung up over. If it emerges that we held back for Mexico's sake, or because of those dumb progressive ideas the Liberals tried to insert (which had no chance whatsoever) then yes, it will be Trudeau's fault.

1 hour ago, Hudson Jones said:

It's oil prices. Canada's economy, at least compared to the Harper., is actually doing better.

Unemployment rate?

Canadian politicians love to take credit for good economic times, but in large measure the economy has little to do with them. No one can point to anything Trudeau has done which has sparked 'good times' any more than they could point to anything Chretien did. They were lucky, in that the world economy, and in particular the US economy dragged us along with them. Harper, meanwhile, was shielded from the worst of the recession by a booming oil industry.

That being said, it is far easier for politicians to screw up an economy than boost it. Trudeau is certainly doing his best to make the oil industry suffer, to the degree if there was a harsh recession now it would not, thanks to his idiotic regulatory and environmental policies, regulations and laws, be able to do much for us. High taxes and regulations definitely inhibit a good business environment.

 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

The potential bombing of NAFTA doesn't have anything to do with Trudeau. I never voted for Trudeau and will never vote for him. But c'mon. Stop being one of those people who tries to fault EVERYTHING on Trudeau. Trump is trying to bully people into accepting whatever he wants. He's not even consulting with the States to see how a change in NAFTA could effect him. He's all hot air. That's all he is. After all of this hot air and stage acting, he'll end up making a couple minor changes and then call it a win. There are too many states that need NAFTA to continue as it is. Their number one partner in trade is Canada and there is the reliance on immigration to fill skilled position that they're not able to find any Americans to do.

Yes. Bankers and energy companies who lobby not only Trudeau, but also they did with Harper and they do with Trump. Find it in yourself to look at the system and not at individuals. EVERY one of these politicians (Trudeau/Trump/Harper) have learned to accept the system, in order to be able to continue to stay in power. 

It's oil prices. Canada's economy, at least compared to the Harper., is actually doing better.

Unemployment rate?

 

What you can argue is federal spending, where Trudeau has set records. But this was not done secretly or without notice. He ran on increasing spending. I may not agree with it, but he ran on a platform where he said he is going to increase spending, including money towards infrastructure:

But then again, Trudeau's spending is not much different than Harper's. Important to note that Trudeau is spending during a time where the economy is doing well, where Harper had to deal with the world economic down turn. That said, Harper's last few years included some of the highest spending anyway:

With the Liberals planning to spend $8,337 per person in 2017, the government of Justin Trudeau is close to breaking the all-time record for per-capita federal expenditures, according to a new report by the Fraser Institute.

The number one spot, however, remains Stephen Harper. The Conservative leader hit a per-Canadian total of $8,375 in 2009 when he was overseeing spending increases intended to counteract the effects of the global recession. 

Note that liberal's spending, Chretien! 

 

Trudeau has plenty to do with the NAFTA talks. His girl Freeland is trying to take care of Quebec's dairy producers interests and that is what is holding up any kind of agreement. It's all about Quebec, again. If Trudeau loses on that front then Trump will impose a 25% import tax on auto parts going into the states which could cost those auto parts companies plenty of revenue and thousands of jobs. Screw the Quebec dairy farmers. They don't give a shit about the rest of Canada anyway. Why does it always have to be all about Quebec only in Canada? What the hell has Quebec done that has been good and great for Canada anyway? Gave us bilingualism? WOW. 

Trump is not trying to bully anybody. Trump is looking out for America and Americans where Trudeau is only looking out for Quebec. It is Trudeau who is trying to be the big bully here. Canada does not really need NAFTA. What Canada needs is to let the people who are involved in any kind of business to do their own trade deals among one another. Why does the government have to be involved in trade anyway? When I do my own wheeling and dealing I don't need to rely on the government to get involved for me to do my wheeling and dealing. Getting the government involved would only make things worse for me. What Canadians really need is more freedom and less government and less tariffs. I try to look at how to do things the easy and simple way and not the hard way which is what the government is very very good at doing. The government enjoys trying to make new work projects for themselves to screw we the people all up later and get stuck with. All political party's are the same. Really good for nothing. I just get tired of playing all their silly ass screw the taxpayer's game. I like things short, sweet and simple. I do look at the system and that system is always out to screw me and thee. And massive immigration is not the solution either. It's a disaster. 

All Canadians have governments that are all way out of control when it comes to spending our tax dollars. They are blowing taxpayer's tax dollars like there is no tomorrow. Massive immigration is just one of the wasteful programs and agendas of how to go about wasting tax dollars. Look at what Chretien gave Canada and Canadians when he was the prime mistake of Canada. Chretien gave us same sex marriage. OW. I bet you that must have created thousands of new jobs, eh? 

Edited September 1, 2018 by taxme