Israel's Discriminatory so-called Justice System

[bush_cheney2004]

27 minutes ago, marcus said:

I find it interesting that you're covering for Israel and blaming your country for Israel attacking it. Where do your priorities lie? Are you an Israeli-Firster? Those Israeli Firsters are more often than not Jewish Zionists or Christian Zionists.

When USS Liberty was deliberately attacked by Israel and the U.S. did not do anything about it (Liberty died - how symbolic), that was the moment when Israel realized that they can get away with anything. 

 

You didn't even get the name of the ship correct, so your understanding of the event and context is quite suspect.

All that matters to you is more attacks on Israel and its right to exist, which doesn't require your permission or approval.

 

[marcus]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

You didn't even get the name of the ship correct, so your understanding of the event and context is quite suspect.

Grow up. It was a simple typing mistake. Anyone familiar with the region and the relationship between Israel and U.S. knows about the event.

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

All that matters to you is more attacks on Israel and its right to exist, which doesn't require your permission or approval.

I hope that Israel thrives inside its legal borders. What I am against is Israel's violation of the Palestinians. But what's the point of repeating this over and over again.

I see that you're avoiding addressing your Israel-First approach to this topic and you blaming the U.S. for Israel's attack on the ship.

The answer has to be one of the two: 1) Jewish Zionist or 2) Christian Zionist. I'm leaning towards 1).

[GostHacked]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

USS Cole ??????

Guess again...it was USS Liberty...spying in a war zone.  War is hell...please tell the Palestinians.

Correct it was the USS Liberty that Israel attacked.  Have yet to see any Palestinian take out a US naval warship. Israel did that 50 years ago too.  Sure you want to keep them as allies? 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

Grow up. It was a simple typing mistake. Anyone familiar with the region and the relationship between Israel and U.S. knows about the event.

 

It was not a typo...it was a sloppy attempt at false equivalency based on superficial understanding of what actually happened.   "USS Cole" is not "USS Liberty"....the Cole was bombed in Yemen by Al Qaeda in 2000.

 

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I hope that Israel thrives inside its legal borders. What I am against is Israel's violation of the Palestinians. But what's the point of repeating this over and over again.

I see that you're avoiding addressing your Israel-First approach to this topic and you blaming the U.S. for Israel's attack on the ship.

The answer has to be one of the two: 1) Jewish Zionist or 2) Christian Zionist. I'm leaning towards 1).

 

Israel doesn't care what you are for or against....Canada/USA have not stayed within their borders either when it comes to "aboriginal" people and resources.

The answer is far more basic...extreme prejudice towards PLO terrorists and all that support them.  

Israel First....PLO Last !

 

 

 

 

[Hudson Jones]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Israel First...

U.S. Second.

You are one of those.

 

[marcus]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

It was not a typo...it was a sloppy attempt at false equivalency based on superficial understanding of what actually happened.   "USS Cole" is not "USS Liberty"....the Cole was bombed in Yemen by Al Qaeda in 2000.

It was a mistake. Of course I know the difference between USS Cole and USS Liberty. 

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Israel First...

There you go. This explains your unconditional support for Israel and your blaming the U.S. for Israel attacking it and killing dozens of American. You are one of those Zionists who would throw the U.S. under the bus for the sake of Israel. 

[bush_cheney2004]

12 hours ago, marcus said:

It was a mistake. Of course I know the difference between USS Cole and USS Liberty.

 

Agreed...you made a mistake.

 

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There you go. This explains your unconditional support for Israel and your blaming the U.S. for Israel attacking it and killing dozens of American. You are one of those Zionists who would throw the U.S. under the bus for the sake of Israel. 

 

Israel first keeps the U.S. first....did you think I would put PLO terrorism first ?

[GostHacked]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...you made a mistake.

 

 

Israel first keeps the U.S. first....did you think I would put PLO terrorism first ?

Israel first,  USA second. 

[marcus]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Israel first keeps the U.S. first....did you think I would put PLO terrorism first ?

Nobody should put terrorism first. Whether it's done by Palestinian militant groups or by the Israeli military.

You have always been straight forward with your thoughts and intentions. However, this time around, you're avoiding to fully admit that you an Israeli Firster. That's okay though.

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, marcus said:

Nobody should put terrorism first. Whether it's done by Palestinian militant groups or by the Israeli military.

You have always been straight forward with your thoughts and intentions. However, this time around, you're avoiding to fully admit that you an Israeli Firster. That's okay though.

 

I still am....playing games with who/what is "first" is your concern, because Palestine will never be "first".   Keep trying....that's okay too.

[marcus]

29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I still am....playing games with who/what is "first" is your concern, because Palestine will never be "first".   Keep trying....that's okay too.

This has nothing to do with Palestinians. You have been quite clear about your feelings about Palestinians who you call terrorists.

I'm talking about you being an Israeli Firster. Someone who would throw U.S. under the bus because of his allegiance to Israel. You displayed this by blaming the US for being attacked by its so-called ally.

Edited June 9, 2018 by marcus

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, marcus said:

This has nothing to do with Palestinians. You have been quite clear about your feelings about Palestinians who you call terrorists.

 

True..that's because the PLO and Hamas are terrorists...says so on their driver's licenses.

 

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I'm talking about you being an Israeli Firster. Someone who would throw U.S. under the bus because of his allegiance to Israel. You displayed this by blaming the US for being attacked by it's so-called ally.

 

My "allegiance" is to American interests, which includes supporting and defending the State of Israel.  

As a former commissioned officer in the U.S. Navy (70's - 90's), I have an inside understanding and education about the attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5), subsequent investigation(s), criticisms, settlements to victims/families, and operational measures put in place to prevent a repeat occurrence.  Israel has remained the most important U.S. ally in the region despite the attack and loss of American lives.

Hell, even Arab states are not Palestine "First"....no nation is, and for good reasons.

[marcus]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

As a former commissioned officer in the U.S. Navy (70's - 90's), I have an inside understanding and education about the attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5), subsequent investigation(s), criticisms, settlements to victims/families, and operational measures put in place to prevent a repeat occurrence.  Israel has remained the most important U.S. ally in the region despite the attack and loss of American lives.

Was the attack on USS Liberty "a mistake", as announced by both sides?

[bush_cheney2004]

24 minutes ago, marcus said:

Was the attack on USS Liberty "a mistake", as announced by both sides?

 

No, it was not a "mistake", it was a purposeful attack on an intelligence gathering vessel in a war zone.

President Johnson and subsequent administrations agreed to accept the circumstances and losses to preserve the alliance and regional objectives.

Israel "discriminated" against the USS Liberty if that makes you feel better.

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[marcus]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No, it was not a "mistake", it was a purposeful attack on an intelligence gathering vessel in a war zone.

President Johnson and subsequent administrations agreed to accept the circumstances and losses to preserve the alliance and regional objectives.

Why would an ally treat another ally this way?

This relationship seems to be very one-sided. With one side always giving and the other side always taking. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, marcus said:

Why would an ally treat another ally this way?

This relationship seems to be very one-sided. With one side always giving and the other side always taking. 

 

Because Israel was a very young nation in 1967 facing existential threats, and the U.S. represented both risks and opportunities for complex regional and Cold War issues.

(Note that the previous Suez Crisis also pitted allies against allies, including Israel.)

Israel had and continues to have far more skin in the game.

[marcus]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because Israel was a very young nation in 1967 facing existential threats, and the U.S. represented both risks and opportunities for complex regional and Cold War issues.

(Note that the previous Suez Crisis also pitted allies against allies, including Israel.)

Israel had and continues to have far more skin in the game.

Israel is no longer in danger. There is no real threat to Israel. This includes the kites and the homemade rockets.

The relationship is still one-sided. Israel is always taking.

A foreign country with a lobby that successfully resists complying with the Foreign Agents Registration Act and successfully gets the United States to annually underwrite 25% of its military Occupation costs while creating and expanding illegal ethnic settlements is also a foreign country capable of launching a sneak attack upon a well marked American naval vessel & then successfully claim the attack was nothing more than an unfortunate accident of mistaken identity.

Israel is no benefit to the U.S. It's the opposite, as claimed by the US intelligence community..

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, marcus said:

Israel is no longer in danger. There is no real threat to Israel. This includes the kites and the homemade rockets.

The relationship is still one-sided. Israel is always taking.

 

Maybe, but Israel has been very successful with such a strategy.   Why mess with a winning formula ?

 

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A foreign country with a lobby that successfully resists complying with the Foreign Agents Registration Act and successfully gets the United States to annually underwrite 25% of its military Occupation costs while creating and expanding illegal ethnic settlements is also a foreign country capable of launching a sneak attack upon a well marked American naval vessel & then successfully claim the attack was nothing more than an unfortunate accident of mistaken identity.

Israel is no benefit to the U.S. It's the opposite, as claimed by the US intelligence community..

 

Obviously the U.S. government disagrees with your foreign assessment.    Canada gets what it wants in similar "allied" fashion, paying less as well.

AIPAC in an American lobby...it is not Israeli.

 

[GostHacked]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

AIPAC in an American lobby...it is not Israeli.

 

It's an Israeli lobby IN the US. 

[marcus]

Here is what the US Intelligence Community thinks:

A paper entitled “Preparing For A Post Israel Middle East”, an 82-page analysis that concludes that the American national interest in fundamentally at odds with that of Zionist Israel. The authors conclude that Israel is currently the greatest threat to US national interests because its nature and actions prevent normal US relations  with  Arab and  Muslim countries and, to a growing degree, the wider international community.

The study was commissioned by the US Intelligence Community comprising 16 American intelligence agencies with an annual budget in excess of $ 70 billion. The IC includes the Departments of the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Defense Intelligence Agency, Departments of Energy, Homeland Security, State, Treasure, Drug Enforcement Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Security Agency, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned the study.

• Israel, given its current brutal occupation and belligerence cannot  be salvaged any more than apartheid south Africa could be when as late as 1987 Israel was the only “Western” nation that upheld diplomatic ties with South Africa and was the last country to join the international boycott campaign before the regime collapsed;
• The Israel leadership, with its increasing support of the 700,000 settlers in illegal colonies in the occupied West Bank is increasing out of touch with the political, military and economic realities of the Middle East;
• The post Labor government Likud coalition is deeply complicit with and influenced by the settlers’ political and financial power and will increasingly face domestic civil strife which the US government should not associate itself with or become involved with;
• The Arab Spring and Islamic Awakening has to a major degree freed a large majority of the 1.2 billion Arab and Muslims to pursue what an overwhelming majority believe is the illegitimate, immoral and unsustainable European occupation of Palestine of the indigenous population;
• Simultaneous with, but predating, rapidly expanding Arab and Muslim power in the region as evidenced by the Arab spring, Islamic Awakening and the ascendancy of Iran, as American power and influence recedes,  the US commitment to belligerent oppressive Israel is becoming impossible to defend or execute consistent given paramount US national interests which include normalizing relations with the 57 Islamic countries;
• Gross Israeli interference in the internal affairs of the United States through spying and illegal US arms transfers. This includes supporting more than 60 ‘front organizations’ and  approximately 7,500 US officials who do Israel’s bidding and seek to dominate and intimidate the media and agencies of  the US government which should no longer be condoned;
• That the United States government no longer has the financial resources, or public support to continue funding Israel. The billions of dollars in direct and indirect aid from US taxpayers to Israel since 1967 is not affordable and is increasingly being objected to by US taxpayers who oppose continuing American military involvement in the Middle East. US public opinion no longer supports funding and executing widely perceived illegal US wars on Israel’s behalf. This view is increasingly being shared by Europe, Asia and the International public;
• Israel’s segregationist occupation infrastructure evidenced by  legalized discrimination and increasingly separate and unequal justice systems must no longer be directly or indirectly funded by the US taxpayers or  ignored by the US government;
• Israel has failed as a claimed democratic state and continued American financial and political cover will not change its continuing devolution as international pariah state;
• Increasingly,  rampant and violent racism exhibited among Jewish settlers in the West Bank is being condoned by the Israeli government to a degree  that the Israel government has become its protector and partner;
• The expanding chasm  among American Jews objecting to Zionism and Israeli practices, including the killing and brutalizing of Palestinians under Israeli occupation,  are gross violations of American and International law and raise questions within the US Jewish community regarding the American responsibility to protect (R2P) innocent civilians under occupation;
• The international opposition to the increasingly  apartheid regime can no longer be synchronized with American claimed  humanitarian values or US expectations in its bi-lateral relations with the 193 member United Nations;
• The Draft ends with language about the need to avoid entangling alliances that alienate much of the World and condemn American citizens to endure the consequences.

[bush_cheney2004]

37 minutes ago, marcus said:

Here is what the US Intelligence Community thinks:

 

Don't fall for such obvious and biased nonsense...their is no such "draft" report and the Obama administration would not have permitted such a report's commission.   U.S. intelligence agencies provide assessments, not policy decisions.

Foreign Policy Journal = FAKE NEWS

Israel consistently polls with higher U.S. support than Palestine...more for Republicans...less with liberal Democrats.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[marcus]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Don't fall for such obvious and biased nonsense...their is no such report and the Obama administration would not have permitted such a report's commission.   U.S. intelligence agencies provide assessments, not policy decisions.

Foreign Policy Journal = FAKE NEWS

Israel consistently polls with higher U.S. support than Palestine...more for Republicans...less with liberal Democrats.

 

 

Biased nonsense? How so? The establishment, which is heavily influenced by the Israeli lobby can't handle such truth. Of course they will do what they can to shut down any such report. Look how they were able to shut down the Al Jazeera report on the power and influence of the Israeli lobby in the U.S.

By the way, here is a more updated pew research in regards to sympathies with Israel:

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, marcus said:

Biased nonsense? How so? The establishment, which is heavily influenced by the Israeli lobby can't handle such truth. Of course they will do what they can to shut down any such report. Look how they were able to shut down the Al Jazeera report on the power and influence of the Israeli lobby in the U.S.

 

There is no such report drafted by "16 U.S. Intelligence Agencies".  

The whole premise is patently false and obvious amateur effort by Franklin Lamb and "Zionist resistance".

 

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By the way, here is a more updated pew research in regards to sympathies with Israel:

 

Thank you for the update....Israel is still favoured by Americans over Palestinian terrorists.

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Here is an example of how Palestinian leadership have made decisions that directly strengthened Israel's position and leverage over occupied territories and Palestinian autonomy:

Quote

Arafat's choice

The PLO founder calculated that maintaining Iraq's military power and rejecting a US military presence in the region were less costly scenarios in the long run than allowing Baghdad to annex Kuwait. During the 1980s, Iraq had helped supply the PLO with arms and it was Arafat's belief at the time that a more militarised Iraq would support the struggle for Palestinian statehood.

He weighed the fact that Iraq had participated in force in all Arab-Israeli wars: 1948, 1967, 1968 and 1973, whereas Kuwait had no army it could afford to lose in the event of a future war with Israel.

But Arafat could not have been more wrong.

By the end of 1990, with a huge military force massing in Saudi Arabia, Iraq had become a pariah state. The Kuwaitis had financed a massive media campaign which called Arafat a traitor for supporting Saddam.

They considered PLO support for Iraq as treacherous ingratitude for years of support; the emirate had been home to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians since the 1970s.

Arafat's costly Gulf War choice.  The Iraqi defeat in 1991 left the PLO with little choice but to negotiate with Israel.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Israel wins again, as Arab leaders abandon their previous alliance with Palestinian "liberation" and Pan-Arab nationalism when faced with stark choices and threats from Iran:

 

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On the surface it was business as usual in the Gaza Strip. Hamas bussed thousands of residents to the border with Israel to begin a six-week protest campaign ahead of the 70th anniversary of Israel’s independence—or, as the Palestinians call it, the nakba, or “catastrophe.” This protest would mark “the beginning of the Palestinians’ return to all of Palestine,” according to Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

...But what is happening in Gaza today is not business as usual. Tectonic plates are shifting in the Middle East as the Sunni Arab world counts the cost of the failed Arab Spring and the defeat of Sunni Arabs by Iranian-backed forces in Syria.

In headier times, pan-Arab nationalists like Gamal Abdel Nasser and lesser figures like Saddam Hussein dreamed of creating a united pan-Arab state that could hold its own among the world’s great powers. When nationalism sputtered out, many Arabs turned to Sunni Islamist movements instead. Those, too, have for the time being failed, and today Arab states seek protection from Israel and the U.S. against an ascendant Iran and a restless, neo-Ottoman Turkey.

But the American protection on which Arabs rely cannot be taken for granted, as President Trump’s apparent determination to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria in the near term demonstrates. Under these circumstances, Israel’s unmatched access to Washington makes Jerusalem even more important to Arab calculations. Perhaps only Israel can keep the U.S. engaged in the region.

It is against this backdrop that the old Palestinian alliance with the Arab nations has frayed. Most Arab rulers now see Palestinian demands as an inconvenient obstacle to a necessary strategic alliance with Israel. The major Gulf states and Egypt apparently have agreed on two goals. The first is to strangle Hamas in Gaza to restore the authority of the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority. The second is to press the authority to accept the kind of peace that Israel has offered repeatedly and that Yasser Arafat and his successor have so far rejected.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/arab-leaders-abandon-the-palestinians-1522708189