There is no such thing as the "Palestinian people" - Tool of Arab Propaganda

[bush_cheney2004]

29 minutes ago, marcus said:

You push so hard to erase the Palestinians. This is a form of genocide.

 

Form of ?    See "Nazis" for an example of the real thing.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Form of ?    See "Nazis" for an example of the real thing.

 

Of which, the founder of the Palestinian Cause was knee deep in...being a real Nazi.

[jbg]

4 hours ago, marcus said:

You push so hard to erase the Palestinians. This is a form of genocide.

 

A political debate is a form of genocide? How many people have I killed using a keyboard on a Canadian discussion board?

[Bonam]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

There is one difference. Majority of the people calling themselves Palestinian, actually lived on the land. People who call themselves Israeli came mostly from Europe and have less of a genetic connection with the Israelites, than the Palestinians.

Actually, you have it exactly backwards.

The majority of people who today identify as Palestinian were born outside of what you want to call Palestine. Specifically, most were born in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Chile, or after 1948 within the pre-1967 boundaries of Israel. 

On the other hand, the majority of Israelis were born within Israel (although their parents or grandparents may have migrated from Europe or from elsewhere in the middle east). 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Bonam

[marcus]

Just now, Bonam said:

Actually, you have it exactly backwards.

The majority of people who today identify as Palestinian were born outside of what you want to call Palestine. Specifically, most were born in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Chile, or after 1948 within the pre-1967 boundaries of Israel. 

On the other hand, the vast majority of Israelis were born within Israel (although their parents or grandparents may have migrated from Europe or from elsewhere in the middle east). 

Today? Sure. That's what happened after the Nakba. Many Palestinians were driven out because of the violence committed against them and their positions. They ended up taking refuge in other countries and they are growing in numbers. They will not be given citizenship, because Israel would use that as an excuse to further push for their expulsion from their land.

In the early 1900s, almost all Jewish European settlers in Palestine had very little genetic connection to the original inhabitants of the land, which is their cornerstone argument that been used as their justification to colonize Palestine.

[Bonam]

1 minute ago, marcus said:

Today? Sure. That's what happened after the Nakba. Many Palestinians were driven out because of the violence committed against them and their positions. They ended up taking refuge in other countries and they are growing in numbers. They will not be given citizenship, because Israel would use that as an excuse to further push for their expulsion from their land.

Yes, even many 4th generation descendants of people who left Palestine 70 years ago are still not able to get citizenship in Jordan, Lebanon, and other Arab countries. I agree, if they did get citizenship, it would weaken their claim to be "refugees" who need to "return" to Palestine. But the reality remains that most of these people never lived in Palestine and have no more "connection" to Palestine than European Jews who considered Israel their home because generations ago, their ancestors lived there.

Meanwhile, Israel is inhabited by people who have been actually born in Israel, in many cases for 2-3 generations. You can keep using the early 1900s as a reference point in your arguments but the reality is that Israeli Jews are not about to pack up and migrate to Europe or America. 

[marcus]

2 minutes ago, Bonam said:

Yes, even many 4th generation descendants of people who left Palestine 70 years ago are still not able to get citizenship in Jordan, Lebanon, and other Arab countries. I agree, if they did get citizenship, it would weaken their claim to be "refugees" who need to "return" to Palestine. But the reality remains that most of these people never lived in Palestine and have no more "connection" to Palestine than European Jews who considered Israel their home because generations ago, their ancestors lived there.

Meanwhile, Israel is inhabited by people who have been actually born in Israel, in many cases for 2-3 generations. You can keep using the early 1900s as a reference point in your arguments but the reality is that Israeli Jews are not about to pack up and migrate to Europe or America. 

They should not pack up and go to Europe. If you think that this is what I believe they should do, you are misrepresenting my position.

Despite the questionable claims to the land and the decades long human rights violations, I think Israel is here to stay and should stay. I don't expect them to pack up. I expect them to follow international law in regards to the 1967 border and to allow a Palestinian State to be formed. World's largest refugee group should be given compensation, in the form of financial compensation to settle them in parts of Palestinian land and in countries they are refugees in. Something that successive Israeli governments have never wanted to happen.

After so many decades of stalling and land grabbing, the time is up for expecting Israel to cooperate. 

[DogOnPorch]

14 minutes ago, marcus said:

They should not pack up and go to Europe. If you think that this is what I believe they should do, you are misrepresenting my position.

Despite the questionable claims to the land and the decades long human rights violations, I think Israel is here to stay and should stay. I don't expect them to pack up. I expect them to follow international law in regards to the 1967 border and to allow a Palestinian State to be formed. World's largest refugee group should be given compensation, in the form of financial compensation to settle them in parts of Palestinian land and in countries they are refugees in. Something that successive Israeli governments have never wanted to happen.

After so many decades of stalling and land grabbing, the time is up for expecting Israel to cooperate. 

 

So when are your terrorist chums going to work for peace? 

I say never...never was in the plan from day one.

Your Arab friends with their "Three Noes" agree with my assertions.

[Gingerteeth]

Doesn't matter where the term came from. Palestinian's land claims are recognized as valid, as are Jewish land claims, by the UN. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, Gingerteeth said:

Doesn't matter where the term came from. Palestinian's land claims are recognized as valid, as are Jewish land claims, by the UN. 

 

"Valid" according to the 57 nation OIC (including the the dudes that started the war)...less so to others.

[Gingerteeth]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

"Valid" according to the 57 nation OIC (including the the dudes that started the war)...less so to others.

If the UN sees it as valid it is valid. What the US or Lebanon thinks is irrelevant.

[DogOnPorch]

13 minutes ago, Gingerteeth said:

If the UN sees it as valid it is valid. What the US or Lebanon thinks is irrelevant.

 

Well then, you should be getting your Jew-free terror state any second now (looking at clock...)

Any second...

What? Where is it?

[Gingerteeth]

21 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Well then, you should be getting your Jew-free terror state any second now (looking at clock...)

Any second...

What? Where is it?

I always know you lost the argument when you start making strawman arguments and red herrings rather than maturely discussing the topic.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Gingerteeth said:

I always know you lost the argument when you start making strawman arguments and red herrings rather than maturely discussing the topic.

 

Any second...wait for it....wait for it...wait....

[marcus]

1 hour ago, Gingerteeth said:

If the UN sees it as valid it is valid. What the US or Lebanon thinks is irrelevant.

The US finds it valid as well.

[DogOnPorch]

14 minutes ago, marcus said:

The US finds it valid as well.

 

So any second now your terror state free of Jews will be reality. Good news.

[GostHacked]

On 2/15/2018 at 3:23 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

So when are your terrorist chums going to work for peace? 

I say never...never was in the plan from day one.

Your Arab friends with their "Three Noes" agree with my assertions.

Now who's projecting? Stop it.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Now who's projecting? Stop it.

 

So when is this Jew free terror state going to be a reality?

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 2018-02-13 at 1:34 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Zionists bought their land from the Sultan. No kicking anybody off of any land.

So can I buy a piece of Israel tomorrow and make it my country? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Let nations define themselves. Somebody could just as easily say that Canada is a makey-up country. 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 2018-02-14 at 8:03 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Projecting again...

Again...the Palestinians as a people were created at 1967's Khartoum Conference of the Arab League. Before this "magic event", they were called Egyptians and Jordanians respectfully.

 

And I would respectfully suggest you meant respectively. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

And I would respectfully suggest you meant respectively. 

 

Correct, thank-you.

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

So can I buy a piece of Israel tomorrow and make it my country? 

 

Zionists bought the land fair and square...then the Ottoman Empire went bye-bye. They have as much right to a country as say...Syria or Lebanon or Egypt...etc...all former Ottoman Empire lands. Few Arabs BOUGHT land as it meant serving in the Ottoman military and paying property taxes. Some did, however...like the Hashemites and al-Husseinis. 

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Let nations define themselves. Somebody could just as easily say that Canada is a makey-up country. 

 

 

Palestinians were specifically constructed as a 'people' after the Arabs lost the Six Day War (Khartoum) They were called Egyptians and Jordanians just days before. Had the Arabs won...no Palestinians. The Mufti and his old cause to control al-Aqsa (instead of the Hashemites) was dusted-off and the whole shootin' match was handed to his nephew Yasser. The Mufti and young Arafat were languishing in obscurity in 1967 after blowing the 48 War so spectacularly. The al-Husseini fortunes and influence had declined...especially since assassinating Jordan's King Abdullah in 1951.

Edited February 17, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[SpankyMcFarland]

Ethnic-cultural distinctiveness and political independence frequently do not go together e.g. Basques, Catalans, Kurds, Scots, Welsh and Canada’s First Nations. Any group of people that tends to marry each other becomes distinct. I would regard it as self-evident that Lebanese and Jordanians, for example, are different, let alone Egyptians who are obviously distinct from both in many physical and cultural ways. Even in English, one can hear the difference between the pronunciation of a Lebanese and Egyptian speaker. Lebanon’s history has been as a trading nation and this is reflected in the achievements of its diaspora that includes one of the richest men in the world, Mexican entrepreneur Carlos Slim. This story is repeated many times, particularly in the Americas, the Middle East and West Africa. In this sense, Lebanon and Jordan, carved out of the Ottaman Empire in a hurried and arbitrary fashion, have distinct identities. I would put the Palestinians in an intermediate category, distinct from indigenous Jordanians. 

Countries are artificial constructs. Their current, temporary form is a product of historical accidents. Without the fortunate events of the Revolutionary and 1812 wars, and possibly the American Civil War, no Canada. 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland