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Brief concept of Geomocracy.


Anthony

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Our current "democratic" system utilizes the use of representatives. However, what if we could implement a system, where representatives are replaced and instead, citizens were to have direct control over the means legislation. What if the system provided each citizen with the opportunity to express an issue within society, by the use on an online discussion and voting forum.  Not only would this save exorbitant funds, currently spent on elected government, but also prevent political corruption. 

This type of system is called Geomocracy.

 

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This is an interesting idea. The concern I have is I do not have the time to study legislation to determine how I would vote. Neither do I have the legal training. I don't have the financial background to appreciate the intricacies of tax legislation. I don't know many people who do. Those I do know are people who I would support to run for Parliament. MP's have the time and resources to deal with issues. Many of them work 18 hour days 6 1/2 days a week.

Parliament is not that expensive when you consider what they do. We hire them to do what we cannot. 

My experience with online discussion groups is that they tend to be taken over by people I would never trust to govern (myself included).

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7 minutes ago, Altai said:

Just look at this forum and look at the posters receives most "likes" from others. It would be a horrible to allow these guys to make laws. 

Feeling sad because you're at -1?  I fixed that for you.

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12 minutes ago, Altai said:

Just look at this forum and look at the posters receives most "likes" from others. It would be a horrible to allow these guys to make laws. 

That is why we live in the best country in the world, why do you want canada changed into a cesspool?  It is hard to stay at number one, but your way would put us in the bottom very quickly. Is this something to do with misery loves company. And you want the rest of the world to be miserable as you and your ilk?

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I understand and agree with your concern Queenmandy85, as it would take hours of your day to sift through all the data and information to make an informed decision. However, Geomocracy does solve this issue by the use of Researchers. Researchers are highly qualified individuals who have backgrounds in a multitude of fields and education.

There is a detailed 3 minute video describing each step of Geomocracy online. It explains how Researchers function within the system and follows through an issue in the system quickly and efficiently.

 

On the topic of funds allocated to operate the elected government, not only does it cost 424 million (a) just for the house of commons, but it also costs 443 million (b) to have a federal election. Assuming the costs stay the same per year, that would result in a 2.139 billion dollar price tag for the house of commons as our form of government. I believe 2.139 Billion is an exorbitant amount of funds.

(a) “The total cost of the House of Commons to taxpayers was approximately $424 million from April 1, 2010 to March 31, 2011”  Huffington post

(b) “The price tag for the 2015 federal election has come in at $443 million” CBC

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A cheaper solution would be to not fill the positions of Prime Minister and Governor General and revert back to direct rule. While that has always been my preference, I am not deluded enough to believe anyone else would agree with me.

Go Riders.

Edited by Queenmandy85
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On 11/13/2017 at 9:19 AM, Altai said:

Just look at this forum and look at the posters receives most "likes" from others. It would be a horrible to allow these guys to make laws. 

Actually you brought up something interesting Altai. Currently most, if not all forum users use an alias. It is nice to hide behind an alias where one can "like" or approve of an ideology that would be either morally wrong or socially unacceptable. However, if you go through the online Geomocracy video, each forum citizen has an identification number.  You could look up that number and find the  exact name of the citizen who voted for or against an issue.  This would prevent most individuals voting in an absurd solution, as their identity to their vote would be socially known.

Citizens are not forced to vote, you would find in general,  citizens would ignore most issues, especially if it did not pertain to their life. Geographic voting analysis will also prevents one side of the country determining how the rest of the country is supposed to behave.  If you find the online video to be confusing, we can walk through the six processes of Geomocracy by fallowing an issue all the way to an implemented solution if you prefer? 

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27 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Actually you brought up something interesting Altai. Currently most, if not all forum users use an alias. It is nice to hide behind an alias where one can "like" or approve of an ideology that would be either morally wrong or socially unacceptable. However, if you go through the online Geomocracy video, each forum citizen has an identification number.  You could look up that number and find the  exact name of the citizen who voted for or against an issue.  This would prevent most individuals voting in an absurd solution, as their identity to their vote would be socially known.

No private vote? That might make people afraid to vote because of the potential repercussions. We can already see that today with some instances of voters who supported Donald Trump being vilified. People can lose their jobs or be beaten in the streets, if they vote for something considered controversial.

Who defines absurd? The masses? 

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On 11/12/2017 at 5:57 PM, Anthony said:

Our current "democratic" system utilizes the use of representatives. However, what if we could implement a system, where representatives are replaced and instead, citizens were to have direct control over the means legislation. What if the system provided each citizen with the opportunity to express an issue within society, by the use on an online discussion and voting forum.  Not only would this save exorbitant funds, currently spent on elected government, but also prevent political corruption. 

This type of system is called Geomocracy.

 

Interesting concept. Seems like possibly a viable concept on the surface but...

The public is far too flakey and immature to make this work, we have some serious growing up to do first. Think about it, some rock star decides this is his/her stance they could sway half the population.

I am in favor of more free votes in parliament, it would be nice for MPs to actually represent their constituents instead of just the party.

I also think there could be national referendums on certain issues instead of using them as political footballs. Capital punishment, abortion, maybe immigration and even the burka/niqab issue could be resolved this way. It would be a way to tell the people of the world how the Canadian population actually feels about these subjects. The campaign could run 28 days, day one the subject is introduced, three weeks for the opposing sides to argue their case, one week contemplation by the public (polls would be banned during this period) then on day 28 we vote and the results are binding for a fixed period, (maybe ten years or so) then the process starts again.

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I have deep reservations about the knowledge many citizens have about this country. How many people know who our Head of State is, when is Canada's Independence Day etc. Canada has always produced the best politicians in the world. What Germany and Japan are to engineering and the United States is to marketing, Canada is to politics. MacDonald, Laurier, King and (I could name several current politicians but I don't wish to start a flame war.) We have this extraordinary pool of talent. Why not continue to use it?

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9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

No private vote? That might make people afraid to vote because of the potential repercussions. We can already see that today with some instances of voters who supported Donald Trump being vilified. People can lose their jobs or be beaten in the streets, if they vote for something considered controversial.

Who defines absurd? The masses? 

The reason for identification is to prevent one individual from having multiple accounts and also take responsibility for his/her actions. If the individual is afraid of voting one way because of government or community backlash, you no longer have a democracy, you have a tyrannical country. If in fact there was extreme problems with people losing their jobs or being beaten, a multitude of individuals could address the problem by introducing an issue within Geomocracy. 

 

Take your example of Trump supporters being vilified, look at the geography of voter variation, we can see that a majority of sizable cities voted against Trump. Where a majority of the population outside these cities voted for Trump.

Lets replace Trump with an issue statement, say banning rifles, you may observe populations within cities voting ban rifles. But outside the major cities (suburb) you may find the vote cast to allow those rifles. In this case we can apply the 5 process in Geomocracy, geographic analysis. This would take a vote within a specific region, for instance within the city and separately in the different boarder regions farther outside the city. If it is observed that a majority of citizens within the city desire to ban rifles and outside the city a region wants to allow rifles, Geomocracy could implement the decided ban or allowance of rifles directly within each region. 

Although the banning or allowance of rifles in two separate regions would be a little extreme, it shows that even though there would be a national or provincial disagreement, implementation of certain none national solutions could be implemented within the specific region. This could prevent unjustified job loss and physical assault, as citizens within small communities tend to agree more often than an entire nation. 

 

 

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There is also a difficulty in the realm of taxes. California exists on the brink of bankruptcy because every election is inundated with 'initiatives. People vote for more services and lower taxes. I heard a Saskatchewan farmer say it best. "The problem with the government is taxes are too high and they won't fix the roads." 

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11 hours ago, Anthony said:

Actually you brought up something interesting Altai. Currently most, if not all forum users use an alias. It is nice to hide behind an alias where one can "like" or approve of an ideology that would be either morally wrong or socially unacceptable. However, if you go through the online Geomocracy video, each forum citizen has an identification number.  You could look up that number and find the  exact name of the citizen who voted for or against an issue.  This would prevent most individuals voting in an absurd solution, as their identity to their vote would be socially known.

Citizens are not forced to vote, you would find in general,  citizens would ignore most issues, especially if it did not pertain to their life. Geographic voting analysis will also prevents one side of the country determining how the rest of the country is supposed to behave.  If you find the online video to be confusing, we can walk through the six processes of Geomocracy by fallowing an issue all the way to an implemented solution if you prefer? 

"Voting" itself is a nonsense. Because people wont be honest all the time while voting for a decision. Their personal interests will be priority. A part of people will also threaten and even will harm the other part of the people which have different choices.

Please look at my "Democracy is a big nonsense" and "There is nothing to discuss" topics.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Anthony said:

The reason for identification is to prevent one individual from having multiple accounts and also take responsibility for his/her actions. If the individual is afraid of voting one way because of government or community backlash, you no longer have a democracy, you have a tyrannical country. If in fact there was extreme problems with people losing their jobs or being beaten, a multitude of individuals could address the problem by introducing an issue within Geomocracy. 

There's theory and then there's reality. No private vote means anyone who holds an opinion that isn't in line with the community they find themselves in (their coworkers, or classmates, or family members, etc) will either not vote or vote along the lines of those they are with, or face ostracism, hatred, or even physical violence. The US is a democracy and yet anyone in Seattle who mentions that they voted for Trump is pretty much instantly considered a pariah, cast out of their social circles, and in a few cases even let go from their jobs or cut off from their families. There is nothing more tyrannical than social media and the internet thought police that uses it to shame and disparage anyone whose opinions they disagree with. 

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

There is also a difficulty in the realm of taxes. California exists on the brink of bankruptcy because every election is inundated with 'initiatives. People vote for more services and lower taxes. I heard a Saskatchewan farmer say it best. "The problem with the government is taxes are too high and they won't fix the roads." 

The farmer is completely right. Taxes ARE too high, and yet there still isn't any money for roads. Because it's all wasted on other stuff. The government doesn't need more money to fix roads, they need to use the hundreds of billions of dollars they already have more wisely. Until the government is seen and believed to be a wise steward of people's hard earned money, you will always see resentment at taxation. And right now most Western countries are on a route where government spending is becoming ever more unaccountable, corrupt, and wasteful, not less. 

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1 hour ago, Bonam said:

The farmer is completely right. Taxes ARE too high, and yet there still isn't any money for roads. Because it's all wasted on other stuff. The government doesn't need more money to fix roads, they need to use the hundreds of billions of dollars they already have more wisely. Until the government is seen and believed to be a wise steward of people's hard earned money, you will always see resentment at taxation. And right now most Western countries are on a route where government spending is becoming ever more unaccountable, corrupt, and wasteful, not less. 

What one person sees as waste, another sees as a desirable government service. The thing one learns fast in Government, is everybody has their hand out and they are all your boss. When it comes to taxes, 'everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die to get there.'

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On 12/11/2017 at 7:57 PM, Anthony said:

Our current "democratic" system utilizes the use of representatives. However, what if we could implement a system, where representatives are replaced and instead, citizens were to have direct control over the means legislation. What if the system provided each citizen with the opportunity to express an issue within society, by the use on an online discussion and voting forum.  Not only would this save exorbitant funds, currently spent on elected government, but also prevent political corruption. 

This type of system is called Geomocracy.

 

I am in favour of devolving more power to citizens and reducing the power of the two major parties. However, I think the system you suggest is too unwieldy.

I believe we can make some progress in that direction by implementing proportional representation. It would spread the power out among more parties, encourage more collaboration across party lines and reduce the divisiveness of the current system. 

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38 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What one person sees as waste, another sees as a desirable government service. The thing one learns fast in Government, is everybody has their hand out and they are all your boss. When it comes to taxes, 'everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die to get there.'

Worldwide, about $2 trillion of government money is lost to corruption. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-imf-corruption/imf-global-corruption-costs-trillions-in-bribes-lost-growth-idUSKCN0Y22B7

The total revenue of all governments worldwide is about $20 trillion. So about 10% of tax revenues goes to corruption. More in some countries, less in others, but no country is immune. $2 trillion annually is more than enough to vastly improve all worldwide infrastructure, among other things. And that $2 trillion just covers bribes, there are many other forms of corruption. 

Besides the blatant corruption, other large parts of government revenues are lost to the general inefficiency of government bureaucracy, overgenerous benefits and pensions for some government workers as compared to their private sector counterparts. And yes, there are also bad spending decisions, which include everything from foreign military adventurism, to ill-conceived social programs, to subsidies for businesses that shouldn't be subsidized, etc. 

So no, it's not "all relative" and dependent on one's opinion. There is objective waste and corruption by governments that any reasonable person honestly thinking about it should be able to see and acknowledge. Governments need to clean up their act before they demand more taxpayer money. And they certainly don't get to claim that they don't get enough revenue to fund what should be one of the absolute highest priorities of any advanced society - maintaining and expanding infrastructure. They most certainly do get enough tax revenue for that, but they instead spend it on things that are of far lower priority or just lose it to corruption and misuse. 

I for one will fight and oppose any tax increase in the strongest terms possible until corruption and waste is addressed. Governments need to open their books to the public and account for every dollar received and spent, with verifiable and auditable paper trails. The government expects this from private businesses, but refuses to do it itself. Further, politicians and bureaucrats engaged in corruption need to be dismissed from their jobs, publicly shamed and barred from ever holding any other government office, and wherever possible criminally prosecuted. 

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Can you ask your govts that where your taxes are wasted ? Today I watched a video, a woman asks her govt and see what happens. Link below. Its your "Queen", for me just a senile crazy elder.

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/heather_brooke_my_battle_to_expose_government_corruption/transcript?language=tr#t-183568

 

 

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Bonam, the estimates are publicly accessible. All monies spent must be approved by the House of Commons. Corruption and bribery are covered by the Criminal Code of Canada. That is not to say there is no corruption. Any place you have a large cash flow, you will have pirates, be it in Government or the private sector. No government can eliminate it completely. When you imprison one group, another takes its place.

Compensation for government workers is mandated by their collective agreement. Workers in the private sector have comparable compensation when they are protected by a union.

Governments base their spending priorities on public demand. Education and healthcare for instance. They assist businesses to prevent unemployment. This is something voters demand. Voters demand a lot.

 

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