NAFTA negotiations.

[Zeitgeist]

What kind of managers would Americans make of a country they don’t understand?  There are a lot more cultural differences in Canada than just Quebec.  Canada must only be run by Canadians.  Self-rule is the only rule that works, as colonial powers learned a century ago.  Now if you want to talk about a union, that’s altogether different.  Free movement of residency, labour, and trade can be achieved while maintaining domestic policies.  On the other hand, if things get too wild down there, we may need a border wall.  Americans would pay for it of course...

Edited August 4, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m realizing even the “Canadians” on here are fakes.  You’re not characterizing Canada accurately, so we can’t have a real conversation.  Canada is obviously a sore spot for the commentators on here because they know something is amiss in the U.S. approach, but they’re too brainwashed to figure it out.  

Sure buddy, you are free to ignore the discussion if it doesn't fit with your false narratives.

[Zeitgeist]

Are you Canadian, OftenWrong?  You don’t have to be, but at least be up front. 

[OftenWrong]

I am and there are millions like me with the same attitude. Millions. More than half of Canada lives in small towns, and are not so afflicted with liberal poison. And I predict a shit-kicking for liberals come the next federal election.

But this is off topic, so fathom that.

[Zeitgeist]

I didn't support the Liberals in the last election, but there are certain characterizations of conditions in Canada on here that both conservatives and liberals would take issue with.  U.S. tariffs against Canada are anti-Canadian and inexcusable.  Canadian political parties are unanimous in there opposition to them.  As it turns out, so is the majority of Republicans and Democrats.  I also think Trump's comments about a Canadian PM were disrespectful.  What's more, Harper had no business meddling in Canada's international affairs.  Trudeau is the PM now, whether you voted for him or not.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I didn't support the Liberals in the last election, but there are certain characterizations of conditions in Canada on here that both conservatives and liberals would take issue with.  U.S. tariffs against Canada are anti-Canadian and inexcusable.

 

...but Canadian tariffs against the United States are just fine, right ?   Trudeau imposed tariffs on U.S. made gypsum board before Trump ever took office.

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

There are a lot more cultural differences in Canada than just Quebec

Like what, Canadians prefer hockey over football?

From my travels I got the impression that people in Toronto are much like those in NY or any big city, people in Vancouver are like people in California and those in Alberta, have similarities to those in the south, specifically Texas. 

There isn't a valid argument as to why Canadians should considered themselves Canadians, you're all just Americans with some sort of self inflicted allergy of hating America.

The reason steel and aluminum tariff got place on Canada was due to steel over production in china and dumping tactics they used to get their products to the US by relabeling Chinese steel as Canadian steel. 

But as usual Canada over reacted and placed ridiculous retaliatory tariff on things not even related to our trade dispute with china.

Canada should have just stayed out of it. 

Look at this list of silly tariff Canada placed on itself. You're only making life more difficult for everyday Canadians, the list of goods Canada is trying to implement isn't even going to put a dent in the US's economy so why do it in the first place, other than a feel good measure. This only hurt Canada more and un-necessarily brought Canada into a global trade dispute it very well could and should of stayed out of. 

"

Strawberry jam remains on the list of 79 items other than steel and aluminum set to be hit with a 10 per cent tariff starting July 1.

The original list, worth a total of $16.6 billion, targeted everything from whiskey, washing machines, steel and aluminum to orange juice, frozen pizza, beer, manicure products, boats, ketchup, coffee, nut butters and jams.

Apart from the exempted items, the rest of the list and its value remain the same, Freeland said, and the government is prepared to keep the tariffs in place until U.S. President Donald Trump removes the tariffs of 25 per cent and 10 per cent he placed on Canadian steel and aluminum last month.

Items that remain on the list to be hit with tariffs include yogurt, coffee, licorice, chocolate, prepared meals including pizza and quiche, cucumbers, gherkins, soya sauce, ketchup, mayonnaise, flavoured water, whiskies, manicure and pedicure products, shaving products, dish detergent, candles, glue and various types of herbicides, insecticides and fungicides.

Also set to be hit with tariffs are plastic bags, toilet paper, serviettes, postcards, cast iron grills, combined fridge-freezers, water heaters, dish washers, household washers and dryers, lawnmowers, inflatable and sailboats, motorboats without outboard motors, wood-framed household furniture, mattresses, sleeping bags, pillows and bedding, playing cards and both ballpoint and felt-tipped pens.

"

https://globalnews.ca/news/4304743/canada-retaliatory-tariffs-final-list-trump-steel-tariffs/

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

....Look at this list of silly tariff Canada placed on itself. You're only making life more difficult for everyday Canadians, the list of goods Canada is trying to implement isn't even going to put a dent in the US's economy so why do it in the first place, other than a feel good measure. This only hurt Canada more and un-necessarily brought Canada into a global trade dispute it very well could and should of stayed out of.

 

What I find even more interesting is how many different American made products Team Trudeau had to put on the "list" just to get to $16.6 billion in retaliatory tariffs to counter Trump's tariffs on only Canadian steel and aluminum.    Canada must have been dumping a lot of steel and aluminum, including Chinese trans-shipments !

I guess tariffs on Heinz ketchup only goes so far.

[Zeitgeist]

Trump shouldn’t have imposed those tariffs on Canada, period.  Our tariffs were retaliatory.  There were always back and forths about goods here and there, such as softwood, but Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum were Draconian and unfair. 

The retaliatory tariffs will have an effect, especially since Canada produces many comparable goods that Canadians consumers can choose in order to avoid higher costs related to the tariffs.  

[paxamericana]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum were Draconian and unfair. 

Uh you can blame China for that. Like I've said, Canada should of stayed out of our trade dispute with China. For once, get it in your head that it wasn't about Canada. Those steel and aluminium were design to target dumping practices used by China. We placed tariffs on everybody except Australia and a few south american countries that doesn't do dumping. 

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The retaliatory tariffs will have an effect, especially since Canada produces many comparable goods that Canadians consumers can choose in order to avoid higher costs related to the tariffs.

Or they could just drive across the border and buy stuff at a much cheaper price...oh wait Canadians have been doing that already! Those self imposed tariff are only going to encourage more purchases in the US, further weakening the Canadian economy....word of advice, Canada can't win a trade war with the US so don't try you're only going to hurt your self more. 

[bush_cheney2004]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump shouldn’t have imposed those tariffs on Canada, period.  Our tariffs were retaliatory.  There were always back and forths about goods here and there, such as softwood, but Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum were Draconian and unfair.

 

Nonsense....Trump tariffs bad...Trudeau tariffs good ?!

Canada was also dumping Chinese product into the U.S. market.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, paxamericana said:

....Or they could just drive across the border and buy stuff at a much cheaper price...oh wait Canadians have been doing that already! Those self imposed tariff are only going to encourage more purchases in the US, further weakening the Canadian economy....word of advice, Canada can't win a trade war with the US so don't try you're only going to hurt your self more. 

 

But they can tell their poorer grandchildren that they "stood up to the bully".

Meanwhile, this is what's happening on the ground for one Canadian company:

 

Quote

Heliene’s survival strategy? Expand to the United States and downsize operations back home. At the plant in Sault Ste. Marie, Mr. Pochtaruk has reduced his staff from a high of 112 employees to 70. Forty-eight of those are employed under a federal job-share program that has them work half the time and collect employment insurance the other half. A new plant in Minnesota will employ almost twice as many Americans.

“There’s no Canadian market left, really – just little orders here and there,” said Mr. Pochtaruk, one of the country’s leading renewable-energy entrepreneurs. “Most of what we have been doing in the last few years has been going into the U.S., because the Ontario market ceased to be attractive.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/article-wilting-windmills-canadas-renewable-energy-industry-is-at-a/

 

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

But they can tell their poorer grandchildren that they "stood up to the bully".

 

The reality clearly show Canadians are bullying themselves. They're only trying to blame their predicament on us to "feel good".

[Zeitgeist]

I promise you this: America will be more detested than ever worldwide by these actions.  With friends like Trump and his supporters, who needs enemies?  Canada didn't "dump" Chinese steel.  Chinese steel intended for U.S. markets has flooded other countries because of U.S. tariffs on China.  Your post is saying that the U.S. is impacting Canadian workers now.  It will impact them.  It's disgusting.  You should be ashamed, but somehow you're proud of your belligerence.  We won't forget.  I haven't bought goods in the U.S. for a long time now, unless it was groceries or meals out when we were staying there.  Why would we when we have to pay 30% more on the exchange rate after bank exchange charges.  It makes no sense.  Even at parity there's little advantage.  You really don't know how shopping traffic has changed in places like Niagara/Buffalo or Detroit.  What's more, how can you present accurate data on the number of Canadian visits to the U.S. post-tariffs?  It happened too recently.  We'll see quarterly data in the fall that incorporates summer data.

You seem to think we're looking up at America as the place to be.  Many of us like aspects of the U.S. and held our nose about some of the conditions down there.  There will be fewer visits if the U.S. doesn't clean up its act big time.  Just you wait for a massive boycott as well.  I can tell that China is on the brink of a major action.  U.S. stocks fell on news of Trump's new tariffs against China.  Even a 20% dumping by China of U.S. debt would send devastating shocks through U.S. stock markets.  You can't treat countries like shit without consequences.

[paxamericana]

54 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I promise you this: America will be more detested than ever worldwide by these actions.

I think its been established that Americans don't care or want to care what others think of America. This doesn't even have anything to do with trump, its a historical fact. America has and always been unconcerned with what the rest of the world think. 

 

54 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada didn't "dump" Chinese steel.  Chinese steel intended for U.S. markets has flooded other countries because of U.S. tariffs on China.

 

...so the US acted... by placing tariff on Canadian Chinese Steel and Aluminum destined for US market...Canada could of place import restriction themselves but they much prefer the US to do it.

Uh...I think its been well established that Canadians are hurting themselves. Why place tariff on yourself when we were only placing tariff on china?? How does placing tariff of steel and aluminum coming from china destined for america hurt Canada?...unless the Canadians were in on it too? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

54 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your post is saying that the U.S. is impacting Canadian workers now.  It will impact them.  It's disgusting.  You should be ashamed, but somehow you're proud of your belligerence.  We won't forget.

54 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You seem to think we're looking up at America as the place to be.  Many of us like aspects of the U.S. and held our nose about some of the conditions down there.  There will be fewer visits if the U.S. doesn't clean up its act big time.  Just you wait for a massive boycott as well.  I can tell that China is on the brink of a major action.  U.S. stocks fell on news of Trump's new tariffs against China.  Even a 20% dumping by China of U.S. debt would send devastating shocks through U.S. stock markets.  You can't treat countries like shit without consequences.

 

Before you develop an aneurysm with ad-hominem attacks, my roommate/best-friend is Canadian, many of my friends are Canadians, I have relatives in Canada, I love visiting Canada, I love Canucks (generally speaking).

I simply detest Canadian political irony believing that the US is always bullying them when in fact the US is only protecting it self from China's trade policies and other unfair trade practices adopted by many other countries including Canada with their ridiculous supply management that only benefit a few Canadians at the expense of the majority of average Canadians. You're in no moral high ground Canada. It's time to do the right thing and adopt free trade, remove your barriers and supply management. 

As for china, no I'm pretty sure we're going to crush them single-handedly. All data point to the fact that their economy is slowing down, they have massive debt and inefficiency problem with state run/influenced businesses. Their money is inflating because money is leaving china. Its has to do with the fact that China is no longer a good place to do business.I love it when people tell me China will sell US treasury to retaliate, what people need to understand is that  if they sell US treasury then inflation will basically hit even harder. Buying US greenbacks is the only reason why the Chinese Yuan hasn't collapsed. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by paxamericana

[OftenWrong]

..

Edited August 4, 2018 by OftenWrong

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I promise you this: America will be more detested than ever worldwide by these actions.  With friends like Trump and his supporters, who needs enemies? 

I disagree, there are many in every country worldwide who agree with these changes, which is like a course-correction. The direction that economies are going is is headed for disaster.

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It's disgusting.  You should be ashamed,

Enough with the demand to feel shame already.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You seem to think we're looking up at America as the place to be.  Many of us like aspects of the U.S. and held our nose about some of the conditions down there.  There will be fewer visits if the U.S. doesn't clean up its act big time.  Just you wait for a massive boycott as well.  I can tell that China is on the brink of a major action.  U.S. stocks fell on news of Trump's new tariffs against China.  Even a 20% dumping by China of U.S. debt would send devastating shocks through U.S. stock markets. 

 

Far more Canadians go to the United States than Americans going to Canada, and that is still the case.   The kicker is that the U.S. has 10X the population of Canada, but still it is more Canadians going south.   U.S. stock markets are doing way better than the TSX under Trudeau's sunny ways.  Capital investment is flowing out of Canada and into the USA.  

 

Quote

You can't treat countries like shit without consequences.

 

That's right...and other countries are feeling the consequences of tariffs, non-tariff barriers, dumping, and IP theft for the United States.

 

[Zeitgeist]

Canada has a steel industry that employs Canadians. U.S Steel is one of the players. I realize that you only see the economy in terms of how it serves American interests, and we could have a discussion about how U.S. tariffs on steel will raise business costs in the U.S., just as softwood tariffs raise building costs for home buyers in the U.S.  The big issues are this scorch and run policy the U.S. is taking with allies, the environment, and banking/financial services; and being asleep at the wheel on the diplomatic savvy of China, Russian manipulation, and cyber security.  Your Jenga puzzle is getting a little tall don’t you think?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

a discussion about how U.S. tariffs on steel will raise business costs in the U.S., just as softwood tariffs raise building costs for home buyers in the U.S.  The big issues are this scorch and run policy the U.S. is taking with allies, the environment, and banking/financial services; and being asleep at the wheel on the diplomatic savvy of China, Russian manipulation, and cyber security.  Your Jenga puzzle is getting a little tall don’t you think?

I disagree, I see tariff as a means of getting people to negotiate. As Trump has offered during the G7 summit, why don't Canada, mexico, japan, south korea and the EU adopt free trade.... oh wait I think the only one left standing is Canada... Everybody else either agreed or is agreeing to a trade deal. Only Canada stands out as being the most stubborn with its insistence on milk tariff and supply management of agriculture. The issue isn't scorch earth as you portray but of protectionism for Canadian cartels. 

China's diplomatic sway is being buffeted by the new sheriff in town and even to a degree by the previous administration. Don't worry about us, we're going to beat the hell out of Russia and China without anyone's help. America is the only country on earth that can wage this type of war on multiple fronts and win. Which is exactly what we're doing, winning, look at our economy, never been better, look at our military never been better. Every other country seems to think that their opinion matter in America well hate to break the news but it doesn't. America's preeminence is undeniable, we're everywhere exerting enormous influence on everybody. But we're the good guys, so its okay, we're not trying to "scorch earth" we're trying to save the world from itself. 

 

[Zeitgeist]

To quote your leader, “We’ll see what happens.”

[OftenWrong]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:16 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Are you Canadian, OftenWrong?  You don’t have to be, but at least be up front. 

I think a better question is, who are the Russian trolls? Are there any here among us?

And when did you stop beating your wife?

Thanks,

[turningrite]

On 8/3/2018 at 2:15 PM, paxamericana said:

Its not about partisanship, its about economic policies. Those are differing views between Stiglitz and Kudlow. 

Well, I was reading the Economist on the weekend and its conclusions about the downstream impacts of Trump's economic and tax policies seem consistent with Stiglitz's, particularly where it believes that after a brief boom aided by the Trump/Republican tax cuts, American growth will quickly tail off mainly due to the negative effects of growing budgets deficits that will result from those same tax policies. The article argues that while the U.S. economy is currently growing and performing well this likely can't be sustained. Perhaps you might reconsider your position by listening to those who don't have a vested interest in promoting the administration?

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/08/04/what-americas-latest-gdp-figures-reveal

[turningrite]

On 8/3/2018 at 5:36 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1)  Because it has no impact on the Keynes vs. supply side debate....the U.S. made choices that you disagree with...so ?

2)  All presidents do this with varying degrees of success...Bush had a great run too after the so called Clinton.com recession.

3)  Agreed...and Obama's were whoppers !

4)  The U.S. Fed pumped billions into many foreign banks via the discount window, including Canada's.

 

None of what you say here makes much, if any, sense. As for the U.S  Fed pumping money into foreign banks, even the CBC article doesn't suggest that any of this went to sustain domestic liquidity within Canada. As stated before, many Canadian banks now have operations in the U.S., which presumably availed themselves of supports available to banks operations in that country. And there's nothing in anything you've provided that suggests that Canada's central bank received any support at all from the US. Fed. Based on my understanding, the CBC article you link mainly notes that Canadian banks received much more liquidity support from the Canadian CMHC than Canadians were previously led to believe to be the case. But this is nothing surprising in Canada, where we're very used to public risk sustainng private gain where our corporate sector is concerned. And many of us don't always agree with this, by the way. 

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, turningrite said:

None of what you say here makes much, if any, sense.

 

Sorry, but many times reality does not make sense.    Your expectations for logical and consistent fiscal and monetary policy in the United States will often be disappointed.  

When the next U.S. recession comes, as they always do, I will not be surprised in the least, or blame the decisions and choices made in Canada.