cannuck Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) I have to start this thread by apologizing for being absent for most of the next two weeks. I will be travelling internationally and no idea what I will have for access. Ever since Trump got elected, I have been wondering when the softwood lumber issue hits the fan. American lobbyists have challenged this under NAFTA seemingly forever, and every dispute resolution panel finds that softwood lumber (leases on crown land sold by public auction - I believe exactly how the BLM deals with resource leasing in the USA) is NOT subsidized at all. This is exactly the kind of problem I expected from the Trump administration. The parallels with the show "Yes, Minister" are all too familiar. Dairy, I'm OK with. Supply management is a crock of socialist intervention in free markets (I was deeply involved with dumping the Canadian Wheat Board, so you can appreciate my abhorrance of of such things). So, Yanks, help us out here and clobber that policy and bring your buddies up here into the real world. Energy: we will just have to wait and see what protectionist crap The Donald spews on that topic. The majority of energy sector investment up here comes from the US. Similarly, if we were to, say "cut the cord" from Hydro Quebec and Manitoba Hydro, vast areas of the USA would be perfectly dark - for a few seconds - followed by the whole grid coming down. But softwood lumber???? Geez, give it a rest and deal with REAL problems. Is this an effort to sacrifice Canada to get China on board to whack North Korea? One thing I can guarantee you: the pothead-loving child currently residing at 24 Sussex will be totally ineffective in dealing with this. Edited April 25, 2017 by cannuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) The softwood lumber dispute pre-dates President Trump by many U.S. administrations. It has nothing to with Trump specifically. The existing agreement expired and this is exactly what anybody familiar with the "file" would/should have expected. Team Trudeau imposed up to 276% duty on American made drywall imported into western Canada. Canada can whine about it, destroy its own economy in protest, or negotiate just as it always has. Edited April 25, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenOps Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Slaves have difficulty paying two masters. Crown stumpage fees on the production *and* 20% tariffs to King Trump on the consumption? Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Same old, same old. The WTO will probably shoot it down again but US producers are just counting on making hay for the years it will take to go through the system. As usual there are Trump facts and fact facts. The US has yuuge trade surplus with Canada in dairy. Their own farmers say their problem is over production, not Canada. Edited April 25, 2017 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Justin Trudeau cares more about Muslim immigrants and refugees than the Canadian softwood lumber industry. Advantage Trump...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Justin Trudeau cares more about Muslim immigrants and refugees Refugees caused by US war crimes, US perfidy, US terrorism, US murder of children, US thievery, US whatever evil it can produce. How evil does a body have to be to support such US evil? Edited April 25, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, hot enough said: How evil does a body have to be to support such US evil? Evil enough to buy softwood lumber stolen from "aboriginal" land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 The US keeps trying to say that our stumpage fees amount to a subsidy and they keep failing to prove that. It's not our problem that their system relies on wood from private land which is auctioned off so mill operators can't accurately project their raw material costs. But yes I guess they will try and put a down payment on their damn wall anyway they can. Lets wait and see what NAFTA and the WTO have to say this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Wait...the Trudeau stupidity gets even dumber Trudeau and his trade minions knew this day was coming but apparently has done nothing to reduce the impact on Canada's softwood lumber industry: Quote But NDP Leader Tom Mulcair said the government had not done enough to prepare for a day it knew was coming, saying Trudeau had 18 months since the expiry of the previous deal to work on a plan to support the Canadian industry and yet had nothing new to announce today. "What has this government been doing for 18 months, that's the real question," Mulcair said. "Apparently the answer is nothing." http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-reaction-softwood-countervailing-tuesday-1.4084390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Trudeau and his trade minions knew this day was coming Why wouldn't he know that, the US try's this every few years, and they always fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 The only thing we can do is react. It's the reality of trying to deal with the US political system. We can actually do things, they can make sure nothing gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 The problem is that the WTO doesn't impose sufficient punishment on countries like the US, who break trade laws, especially when they're clearly and deliberately flouting the rulings the WTO has already made. What they should do is not only require the US pay back every dollar they collect in improper taxes, but add a 100% fine on top of that. This is the sixth time they've pulled this crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 True, the US industry makes a killing until the US gets told they are acting illegally. The Canadian industry has received compensation on at least one occasion but nowhere near what they lost. What will probably happen is the Canadians will give a bit because they don't want this to go on forever and the Americans will give some because they know they will eventually lose. Good faith ain't in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Canada deserves whatever it gets for countervailing U.S. drywall in the west. Peddle your stolen "aboriginal" lumber somewhere else if the U.S. is not to Canada's liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada deserves whatever it gets for countervailing U.S. drywall in the west. Peddle your stolen "aboriginal" lumber somewhere else if the U.S. is not to Canada's liking. Pretty rich you would stick your neck so far out as to point fingers at Canada for "stealing" anything from native people. https://www.propublica.org/article/land-grab-cheats-north-dakota-tribes-out-of-1-billion-suits-allege https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/04/us-stolen-land-indian-tribes-un https://lakotalawproject.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/koch-industries-stealing-from-tribes/ Want more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 This is great...just like old times ! Canadians upset over another round of softwood lumber duty is always entertaining. Too bad Justin Trudeau cares more about immigrants/refugees than Canadians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: This is great...just like old times ! Canadians upset over another round of softwood lumber duty is always entertaining. Too bad Justin Trudeau cares more about immigrants/refugees than Canadians. We're nuthin' if not all too predictable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: We're nuthin' if not all too predictable. It's so cute each time it happens. "Damn Americans....boycott all American products!" "Snowbirds are traitors...no more travel to the U.S. !" "Take over all American owned corps in Canada!" "Shut off the cheap oil and stupid cheap "hydro" from stupid Wynne's energy policies" "Show the 'Muricans who is boss !" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: It's so cute each time it happens. "Damn Americans....boycott all American products!" "Snowbirds are traitors...no more travel to the U.S. !" "Take over all American owned corps in Canada!" "Shut off the cheap oil and stupid cheap "hydro" from stupid Wynne's energy policies" "Show the 'Muricans who is boss !" Indubitably, my dear BC. You pretty much parroted one of my chum's very words from this morn'...lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: This is great...just like old times ! Canadians upset over another round of softwood lumber duty is always entertaining. Too bad Justin Trudeau cares more about immigrants/refugees than Canadians. What's really entertaining is how you guys always lose these fights when the facts are scrutinized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 It gets funnier...when Canadians go to American owned Home Depot, they get to pick from the crappiest, lowest grade lumber left over after the best grades are exported to the U.S. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 We need to sell it more than the US needs to buy it, unfortunately for Canada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It gets funnier...when Canadians go to American owned Home Depot, they get to pick from the crappiest, lowest grade lumber left over after the best grades are exported to the U.S. And when was the last time you were in home Depot in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, DogOnPorch said: We need to sell it more than the US needs to buy it, unfortunately for Canada. Yes sir...that is the bottom line. Why aren't the Canadian tree huggers thanking Trump ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Yes sir...that is the bottom line. Why aren't the Canadian tree huggers thanking Trump ? No, the bottom line is the US lumber industry sucks because of reasons I have already pointed out, and Trump is just flailing around yet again trying to dodge all his failures in the first hundred days. Maybe you should "lock him up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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