DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, kactus said: Can you cite to support your claim that "Muslim countries were Christian before Islam invaded"!? Yeah: Byzantine Empire...look 'er up. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kactus Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Yeah: Byzantine Empire...look 'er up. 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Yeah: Byzantine Empire...look 'er up. Ok thanks... Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, kactus said: Ok thanks... Not to mention a 1000 years of Hellenization....gone. Immigration brings change...lol. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1) Since you're testing all people, you can probably afford to drop blunt-force criteria like religion and country since those are very general indicators. This will allow your reviewer leeway to accept based on... 2) Economic and cultural fit. This would include things like entrepreneurial ability and so on. 3) I think the morality part is more about refugee acceptance. There is necessarily morality involved but no one should be ashamed of how much charity they are willing to give. These things can be and should be personal. No, the outraged sense of morality has NOTHING to do with refugee acceptance. Anyone who does not embrace diversity and opposes immigration on the basis of not wanting hordes of foreigners is decried as xenophobic, as if wanting to live among hordes of foreigners is the 'normal' default attitude and any other attitude is abnormal. Well, it's not. Further, a willingness to accept large numbers of refugees has NOTHING to do with charity, since it's rarely their own charity liberals are volunteering. Is it charity to take subsidized homes away from hundreds of poor, single women who have been waiting with their kids for several years, and give it to newly arrived Syrian families brought into Canada? My guess is liberals don't even think about things like that. Nor do they think about other costs associated with heavy refugee numbers. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, dialamah said: Not universally true. But saying spreads the agenda of hatred and conflict. It might not be universally true but it is certainly true as a generalized statement to say the Muslim world - all of it - is antisemitic. Thus bringing in lots of people from those countries is definitely going to increase antisemitism in Canada. That clearly doesn't bother you, but it would obviously bother most Jews. 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: It is related to immigration: ie...claiming France and England eliminated the original population of Natives (genocide) as they colonized Canada. Even by stretching it out far enough to say it's related to immigration it still has nothing to do with this topic, which is the moral/value conflict between liberals and conservatives about immigration. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, dialamah said: Its an important part of my Canada that we include humanitarian outreach and help those who are suffering. The right-wing focus on only economics and dismissing my values and beliefs about the importance of national commitment to refugees certainly does not endear me to their cause. This is part of the moral problem of closed vs open. As an 'open' type, the only moral values that are important to you are harm/care Fairness/reciprocity. But as a 'closed' type, while I place a great deal of importance on those two moral values I also have a strong interest in ingroup/loyalty. I would rather be generous to our own people first. And if I do spend money on foreigners I want it spent where it will do the most good. For the cost of funding a family of five in Toronto for a year we could probably fund twenty families in Jordan or Turkey or Lebanon. And they would be happier among their own culture, and be able to speak the language, have a more comparable skill-set, and have a better chance of finding work there. They'd also be in a better position to go home when the fighting stops. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
hot enough Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Argus said: It might not be universally true ... Thus bringing in lots of people from those countries is definitely going to increase antisemitism in Canada. That clearly doesn't bother you, but it would obviously bother most Jews. You have no shame, Argus. You'll do anything, say anything to advance your obvious racist agenda. "but it is certainly true as a generalized statement to say the Muslim world - all of it - is antisemitic." A perfect illustration of your racism. "generalized statements" are the very foundation of racism. Then, after you have whipped up the brainless into a frenzy, Nazi Germany, US 2001 and on, Nicargua 1980s, Vietnam 1950s on, the genocides can begin. Edited April 25, 2017 by hot enough Quote
dialamah Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, Argus said: For the cost of funding a family of five in Toronto for a year we could probably fund twenty families in Jordan or Turkey or Lebanon Imagining for a moment that the Libs and Cons came together and decided to send money out instead of bringing refugees in, how long would it be until Conservatives starting biatching about that money going to foreigners? Not long, I'm thinking. Conservatives already don't like spending on FA, as any perusal of news stories demonstrate. They also don't like to spend on poorer people in country, instead saying things like "get a job, get a better job" and characterizing social assistance recipients as lazy and fraudulent, even when studies demonstrate that fraud is very low. The only "charity" that Conservatives appear to wholeheartedly support is the kind that provides benefits to rich people and corporations. And spending money to keep undesirables out as the support for Kellie Leitch's plan to add more cost to immigration and Harper's plan for a 'tip' line. As Haidt pointed out, Conservatives are fine if poor people and minorities suffer. From my perspective it looks like Conservatives are loyal to financial wealth more than anything else. 1 Quote
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: Imagining for a moment that the Libs and Cons came together and decided to send money out instead of bringing refugees in, how long would it be until Conservatives starting biatching about that money going to foreigners? Not long, I'm thinking. Conservatives already don't like spending on FA, as any perusal of news stories demonstrate. No, we prefer to spend it on our own. That doesn't mean we don't recognize a sense of international responsibility. 1 minute ago, dialamah said: They also don't like to spend on poorer people in country, instead saying things like "get a job, get a better job" and characterizing social assistance recipients as lazy and fraudulent, even when studies demonstrate that fraud is very low. Generally, conservatives are all for being generous to those they legitimately believe have no options. It's just that many of those on welfare clearly do have options. We all know this. I've known people who simply preferred welfare and the odd job on the side to working so they could party a lot. Conservatives believe in a sense of personal responsibility and think people need to raise themselves out of poverty - though we're willing to help. I'm all for skills and education training for those who lack either. I think we should spend more on that and less on warehousing people into a life of poverty. Fraud is NOT low. There are lots of people on welfare who could be doing something else, but they choose not to. Conservatives find it ludicrous that we have to pay for people to be on welfare and pogey while importing people from other countries to do low-skilled work here. Let me put it more bluntly. If there's a shitty job available you could be doing, whether it's working at Tim Hortons or skinning fish, you do it or starve as far as I'm concerned. 1 minute ago, dialamah said: The only "charity" that Conservatives appear to wholeheartedly support is the kind that provides benefits to rich people and corporations. Evidence? I'm all for ending corporate welfare. Most every conservative I know is too. 1 minute ago, dialamah said: As Haidt pointed out, Conservatives are fine if poor people and minorities suffer. From my perspective it looks like Conservatives are loyal to financial wealth more than anything else. That is not what Haidt said. He said conservatives believe in capitalism and personal responsibility, even if some people don't fare very well under that. We know that too much redistribution of income causes more people to hold their hands out and discourages innovation and investment. 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: 1) No, the outraged sense of morality has NOTHING to do with refugee acceptance. Anyone who does not embrace diversity and opposes immigration on the basis of not wanting hordes of foreigners is decried as xenophobic, as if wanting to live among hordes of foreigners is the 'normal' default attitude and any other attitude is abnormal. Well, it's not. 1) Well that's an issue between you and those who take issue with your intentions. If you care about how you're perceived, and I can't honestly figure out if or why you are, then there are things you can do to mitigate that. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1) Well that's an issue between you and those who take issue with your intentions. If you care about how you're perceived, and I can't honestly figure out if or why you are, then there are things you can do to mitigate that. I don't especially care how I'm perceived but this impacts society at large and helps silence sensible voices who would otherwise like to point out how idiotic and harmful our immigration policies are. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 53 minutes ago, Argus said: I don't especially care how I'm perceived but this impacts society at large and helps silence sensible voices who would otherwise like to point out how idiotic and harmful our immigration policies are. Where did you or your previous generations come from I wonder. 1 Quote
dialamah Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: helps silence sensible voices who would otherwise like to point out how idiotic and harmful our immigration policies are. So if people don't agree with you then they lack sense, are idiotic and support proven harmful immigration policies. This, despite the fact that Canada is rated among the best countries to live and among the top 10 performers economically, even with our 'harmful' immigration policies of the last 150 years. The facts don't support these conservative claims, Argus. That and their assumption that conservatives are the only sensible ones no doubt contributes to the way in which people consider conservatives claims more xenophobic than thoughtful. 3 Quote
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: So if people don't agree with you then they lack sense, are idiotic and support proven harmful immigration policies. This, despite the fact that Canada is rated among the best countries to live and among the top 10 performers economically, even with our 'harmful' immigration policies of the last 150 years. The facts don't support these conservative claims, Argus. That and their assumption that conservatives are the only sensible ones no doubt contributes to the way in which people consider conservatives claims more xenophobic than thoughtful. Amazing how many times that has been pointed out, but of course onto deaf ears. Toujours la meme chose. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 Islam will change all that. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, dialamah said: So if people don't agree with you then they lack sense, are idiotic and support proven harmful immigration policies. Yes. Unless they have reasonable alternative facts. I note you have never, in all your posts on this subject introduced any of those. There is no correlation between what is good for Canada, or what is sensible, and your position on open immigration and your unswerving, uncritical support of Islam. Facts simply do not interest you. 10 minutes ago, dialamah said: The facts don't support these conservative claims, Argus. All the facts presented support my claims. 10 minutes ago, dialamah said: That and their assumption that conservatives are the only sensible ones no doubt contributes to the way in which people consider conservatives claims more xenophobic than thoughtful. And that instant resort to slurs is why so many conservatives consider liberals as ignorant morons who can't be trusted with the simplest of jobs. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Omni said: Amazing how many times that has been pointed out, but of course onto deaf ears. Toujours la meme chose. As with other Islamophiles, facts are not something you pay any attention to, unless they are your imaginary facts. It comes from having no respect for the country and disdain for its traditions and culture. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: As with other Islamophiles, facts are not something you pay any attention to, unless they are your imaginary facts. It comes from having no respect for the country and disdain for its traditions and culture. Nope...it comes from my respect for the welcoming traditions of this country and it's disdain of racism and xenophobia. 1 Quote
Argus Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Nope...it comes from my respect for the welcoming traditions of this country and it's disdain of racism and xenophobia. I doubt you know anything about this country's traditions, or would care to. You clearly have no liking for Canada, which is why you want so desperately to change it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, Argus said: I doubt you know anything about this country's traditions, or would care to. You clearly have no liking for Canada, which is why you want so desperately to change it. I already explained a couple of the reasons I like Canada. And I've been all over it from sea to sea to sea and met folks who think just as I do, Have you ever been out of your neighborhood? 1 Quote
dialamah Posted April 25, 2017 Report Posted April 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Argus said: And that instant resort to slurs is why so many conservatives consider liberals as ignorant morons who can't be trusted with the simplest of jobs. So calling people who disagree with you idiots is fine in your book, but god forbid anyone should respond in kind. 11 minutes ago, Argus said: Facts simply do not interest you Right back at'cha. 2 Quote
Argus Posted April 26, 2017 Author Report Posted April 26, 2017 16 hours ago, dialamah said: So calling people who disagree with you idiots is fine in your book, but god forbid anyone should respond in kind. Quit sniveling. You can go back to any discussion I hold here and pinpoint who first resorts to character assassination, and it's rarely me. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted August 5, 2017 Report Posted August 5, 2017 On 4/18/2017 at 7:23 PM, blackbird said: It is an established fact that Canada has an aging population. The only way Canada can continue to provide a decent health care system and Old Age Pensions to the increasing number of seniors is if we have significant immigration which will contribute to the tax base, not drain the system. However, this immigration should come from Europe because that is where culture most closely matches the Judeo-Christian culture which built Canada. Do you realize that your proposal to bring people from only certain countries goes against Canadian laws, which rejects discrimination based on ethnicity? Go to any major hospital, engineering firm or university. The majority of employees are not Judeo-Christians. I believe you are stereotyping due to ignorance. In my community, there are many who are not from "Judeo-Christian cultures" and things are working out well. We can all learn from other cultures while promoting the strengths of Canada's (which is always changing). Our immigration system should not be discriminatory based on the fear of people, which is usually based on ignorance. We have a merit based skilled worker immigration program, where those with high language skills, education, lower age and skilled work experience have the best chance of immigrating to Canada. Close to 2/3 of immigrants who come to Canada, come through that program. This system does not prejudice based on where the person is applying from. 1 Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
hot enough Posted August 5, 2017 Report Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) On 4/25/2017 at 5:31 PM, Argus said: I doubt you know anything about this country's traditions, or would care to. You clearly have no liking for Canada, which is why you want so desperately to change it. I know that you always deny Canada's tradition of genocide. You have a seriously jaundiced view of this country's traditions. You, with all your whinging, bitching and moaning, have a Miss Merry Sunshine view of Canada's traditions. Edited August 5, 2017 by hot enough Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.