Ex-Doctor with a bunch of felonies refuses to get off plane and gets what he deserves

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Bonam said:

Yes... anyone who dares not comply with any arbitrary command from their masters should be promptly beaten into submission. 

It's not your plane. If you're told to get off, you get off. How complicated is this anyway? If you're told to get off, and then the police are called and tell you to get off, you get off.

If not, well, I have no sympathy.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Actually, it pretty much is. Just about any act of disruption about an airliner is a crime.

This list is by no means exhaustive. As a general rule of thumb, if the conduct is offensive or disruptive and distracts the crew, it may be considered actionable interference. The repercussions for passengers who engage in unruly behavior can be substantial, so if an attendant instructs you to do something, you'd best listen up. Otherwise, your next destination could potentially be a jail cell, a courtroom, or the office of an experienced criminal defense lawyer near you.

 

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/11/what-happens-if-you-disobey-a-flight-attendant.html

 

Mr. Dao was not engaging in unruly behavior.  The reason they removed him by force was because they wanted his seat.  The fact that he was removed with excessive force is what was illegal his lawyer says.  He received serious injuries.  That is what was illegal.  Airlines do not have a right to do whatever they please with a passenger.

[Wilber]

Apparently this was a United Express flight, a feeder airline that is owned and operated by Republic Airlines. The employees put on the flight were Republic employees, not United. This could get interesting. So who actually ordered the removal? United is getting all the flack but who will end up being sued?

United Pilots Pissed

 

Republic also operates feeders for American and Delta.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Wilber

[Argus]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Mr. Dao was not engaging in unruly behavior.  The reason they removed him by force was because they wanted his seat.  The fact that he was removed with excessive force is what was illegal his lawyer says.  He received serious injuries.  That is what was illegal.  Airlines do not have a right to do whatever they please with a passenger.

He was not removed by the airline but by police. And refusing, by force, to leave the airplane certainly constitutes disruptive behaviour.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Wilber said:

Apparently this was a United Express flight, a feeder airline that is owned and operated by Republic Airlines. The employees put on the flight were Republic employees, not United. This could get interesting. So who actually ordered the removal? United is getting all the flack but who will end up being sued?

United Pilots Pissed

 

Republic also operates feeders for American and Delta.

I am not sure you CAN sue United. I mean, all they did was to order him off the plane, which they had the right to do. When he refused, they called police. I don't think you can sue the airline because the police hurt you while trying to get rid of you.

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I am not sure you CAN sue United. I mean, all they did was to order him off the plane, which they had the right to do. When he refused, they called police. I don't think you can sue the airline because the police hurt you while trying to get rid of you.

We'll see. We might see the good doctor suing United,  United suing Republic and Republic suing whatever agency hauled him off. It could get very interesting.

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

I am not sure you CAN sue United. I mean, all they did was to order him off the plane, which they had the right to do. When he refused, they called police. I don't think you can sue the airline because the police hurt you while trying to get rid of you.

The police or whatever they were that did the job for United would still be under contract.  I don't think United can escape some responsibility.  Guess a judge will decide.

[betsy]

On 4/13/2017 at 4:08 PM, Goddess said:

Ahem.....

Have a blast having hissy fits every time you don't get your own way or life seems unfair, Betsy! 

Uh....let's have a little head shake here, okay?  Follow the logic.

 

The Airline created a problem by over-booking breaking the rules.  It's the airlines that compounded the situation by involving the cops. 

Like I said before....why didn't they up the ante until someone volunteers?  I bet if they offered $2,000, plus free meals and accomodation until the next flight out, someone would.   One airline company has given their employees instruction to offer up to $10,000 dollars for similar situations. 

Everything that happened after that was the consequence of that incompetent, hasty decision.  That includes the reaction from this guy. 

 

We shouldn't justify ASSAULT of any kind.......even from airline companies.

 

 

 

Quote

Have a blast having hissy fits every time you don't get your own way or life seems unfair, Betsy! 

In fact, if you analyze the situation....it was the airline that had a hissy fit for not having their own way.  They forgot to use tact and other options.  They hastily called the cops.

 

Btw, there's an update on this.  Check the posts below.

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

UPDATE:

 

United Airlines was not over-booked.

 

Quote

 

On Tuesday, United appeared to acknowledge that this was not technically an overbooked flight. And the reason for that equivocation is also clear. The four airline employees who needed the seats, presented themselves to the gate agent after the flight was boarded. Further, they were not fare-paying passengers, therefore not "booked."

Some argue this parsing of words is irrelevant and that the airline's contract of carriage is meant to be applied more broadly. Not true. Airlines are required to present bumped passengers with the written document explaining their rights. I would not bet on the success of a legal argument that begins, "what the document intended to express."

 

The very weekend of Dr. Dao's unfortunate brush with too many passengers and too little seats, another trending story detailed the case of a family traveling to Florida who were offered so much money to voluntarily give up their seats, they made $11,000 and canned their plans to travel.

By coincidence, I read that story as I waited for my later flight, having been bumped (very politely) off an American Airlines flight for $500. Ask 10 people at the airport and I'm guessing at least one or two of them have made a little vacation spending money in this same way.

This kind of voluntary giving up of seats works well for the airlines and airline passengers.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinenegroni/2017/04/12/united-flight-not-overbooked-airline-admits/?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp#4958addf2f18

 

 

 

[betsy]

 

 

Quote

 

United Airlines Did Not Have the Legal Right to Refuse Service to the Doctor Dragged Off Its Plane

A passenger was violently dragged off a flight, but it's even worse than you thought.

 

The fact that the flight was not overbooked may seem trivial, or pedantic, but there is very important legal distinction to be made. There may not be a difference in how an airline (typically) responds when it needs additional seats, such as asking for volunteers who wish to give up their seat for a voucher or cash. But there is a legal difference between bumping a passenger in the instance of overselling a flight versus bumping a passenger to give priority to another passenger. Any thoughtful person can see the problem that arises if an airline were allowed to legally remove one fare-paying passenger to allow for another passenger it prefers.

Since the flight was not actually overbooked, but instead only fully booked, with the exact number of passengers as seats available, United Airlines had no legal right to force any passengers to give up their seats to prioritize others.

What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats,  which would have been a violation of 14 CFR 250.2a (if the flight  were overbooked, as United had originally claimed).

Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been "reserved" and "confirmed" to accommodate him specifically.

 

https://www.inc.com/cynthia-than/the-controversial-united-airlines-flight-was-not-overbooked-and-why-that-matters.html

 

Clearly, United Airlines created its own problem.

By the looks of this, UA could be facing YUGE PUNITIVE damages.  I hope so.  Take them to the cleaners!

For assault....and for breaking regulations!  Big Time!

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:21 PM, Argus said:

Your whole rant is just a big old anti-capitalist complaint that some companies are large and rich. It completely ignores that they were operating within the law, and that they had a perfect right to kick this person off their property at any time for any reason. Just as the police had a duty to evict the guy who was unwanted. There's such a thing as private property, you know. And it doesn't just apply to YOU.  And having paid a ticket is meaningless. The contract between the ticket buyer and the seller is understood to include no guarantee. It says so right on the ticket. They can reschedule you as they chose for any reason they choose to.

You don't want that? Nationalize all businesses, then. Have the government operate them. But you know what? Even if you do they'll operate the same way. Go park your butt in a government office and refuse to leave. See what happens.

 

I'm the last one you'd accuse of being an anti-capitalist, Argus!

I don't go blindly defending every capitalist, though.   

 

Bottomline:  this airline committed an assault on their customer, who has done nothing wrong.  They shouldn't get away with it.  Why should they?  The same law that applies to us should apply to them too!

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:26 PM, Argus said:

He seems like a moron to me, someone whose drivers license should be taken away and who shouldn't be allowed to vote, someone incapable of acting like an adult and making any rational decisions.

 

You know you're losing your credibility trying to defend the undefendable?  Check out the new articles I gave above.

If that's how you see things....hey, what more can I say Argus?

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

He was not removed by the airline but by police. And refusing, by force, to leave the airplane certainly constitutes disruptive behaviour.

 

Who do you think called the cops?  And for what?  To say, "please?" 

 

Btw, we now know that Dao has every right to be there.  According to new info, it could be the airlines that most likely broke the regulations.

 

Quote

United Airlines Did Not Have the Legal Right to Refuse Service to the Doctor Dragged Off Its Plane

 

What United did was give preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats,  which would have been a violation of 14 CFR 250.2a (if the flight  were overbooked, as United had originally claimed).

Since Dr. Dao was already seated, it was clear that his seat had already been "reserved" and "confirmed" to accommodate him specifically.

https://www.inc.com/cynthia-than/the-controversial-united-airlines-flight-was-not-overbooked-and-why-that-matters.html

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

Uh-oh.

 

Quote

Feds Investigating Forcible Ejection Of Passenger On United Flight

Airlines are required to have “fair boarding” procedures, a Department of Transportation statement says.

DOT said in a statement Monday evening that it was reviewing whether United complied with rules on that require airlines to establish a reasonable procedure on how to deal with passengers if they don’t volunteer to give up their seats:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dot-united-passenger-probe_us_58ec77f3e4b0df7e2044b88c

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

UA CEO Munoz must be made to resign.  Stockholders should demand it.  Munoz proved himself incompetent - no wonder their employees are incompetent!

 

Quote

United Airlines CEO sends letter praising staff after doctor was forcibly removed from an overbooked plane

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/11/read-united-ceos-painfully-tone-deaf-letter-employees-man-forcibly/

 

Either he didn't know all the facts, or he knew and he's okay with it:  incompetent.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

UA CEO Munoz must be made to resign.  Stockholders should demand it.  Munoz proved himself incompetent - no wonder their employees are incompetent!

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/11/read-united-ceos-painfully-tone-deaf-letter-employees-man-forcibly/

 

Either he didn't know all the facts, or he knew and he's okay with it:  incompetent.

 

 

Seems you don't know the facts either. The flight was a United Express flight operated by Republic Airlines. Unless the gate employees were United, there would be no United employees involved.

[Rue]

Someone explain to XUL that Republican Airlines is a holding company that went bankrupt and sold all its operations to three other airlines. It has nothing to do with this matter.  It was a United Airlines jet with United Airlines employees.

Yah I know the whole world got it wrong but XUL.

"I'm so smart I know its trams spelled backwords or is that backwards"

Rue 1843

 

[Wilber]

31 minutes ago, Rue said:

Someone explain to XUL that Republican Airlines is a holding company that went bankrupt and sold all its operations to three other airlines. It has nothing to do with this matter.  It was a United Airlines jet with United Airlines employees.

Yah I know the whole world got it wrong but XUL.

"I'm so smart I know its trams spelled backwords or is that backwards"

Rue 1843

 

Nope. It didn't go bankrupt. It flled Chapter 11 and is restructuring. Trades on the NASDAQ as RJET

 

Republic Airline

 

Republic Airways Holding

Edited April 15, 2017 by Wilber
sp

[betsy]

2 hours ago, Wilber said:

Seems you don't know the facts either. The flight was a United Express flight operated by Republic Airlines. Unless the gate employees were United, there would be no United employees involved.

And you do? 

You may have that additional tidbit, but I don't think  you got all the facts right!   You're making assumption - you don't even know what agreement these two airlines has between them.   Why is Republic Airlines hardly mentioned at all??  Why?  Because it was United who was responsible for that incident!

If United Airlines can wash its hands off on Republic, it would've done so already.  Yet, here's the CEO United Airlines, lauding his employees....

 

 

Quote

United Airlines CEO sends letter praising staff after doctor was forcibly removed from an overbooked plane

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/11/read-united-ceos-painfully-tone-deaf-letter-employees-man-forcibly/

 

.......and a few days later, the CEO of United (not Republic), doing a big flip flop with an apology! 

 

Quote

 

"This will never happen again on a United Airlines flight," Munoz said on TV, apologizing to Dao, his family, passengers on that flight and United's customers and employees. He said he took full responsibility for the situation but has no plans to resign.

Munoz also said United already has decided it will no longer call on law enforcement to remove passengers from oversold flights once on board.

"To remove a booked, paid, seating passenger, we can't do that," he said.

 

Munoz said the airline needs to give its employees more latitude to be flexible in trying to resolve situations like the one on the Sunday flight without resorting to calling in law enforcement.

Munoz on Tuesday promised a thorough review of United's policies for handling situations where it has sold more tickets than seats available, including how it offers incentives to customers to take a later flight, and how United works with airport authorities and local law enforcement.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-united-ceo-apology-dragged-passenger-0412-biz-20170412-story.html

 

It was United employees who handled the situation.   They called the cops!

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[Wilber]

Just now, betsy said:

 

I'm not the one running the business!  

I don't think  you got all facts either.  Why is Republic Airlines hardly mentioned at all??  Why?  Because it was United who was responsible for that incident!

If United Airlines can wash its hands off on Republic, it would've done so already.  Yet, here's the CEO United Airlines, lauding his employees....

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/11/read-united-ceos-painfully-tone-deaf-letter-employees-man-forcibly/

 

.......and a few days later, doing a big flip flop with an apology!

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-united-ceo-apology-dragged-passenger-0412-biz-20170412-story.html

 

It was United who called the cops!

Because it had a United flight number. Naming Republic would be the worst thing he could have done because people would just say he was making excuses. The fact remains, it was a Republic aircraft operated by Republic employees and it was Republic employees who displaced those passengers. Whether is was Republic or United agents who called the cops we don't know but my guess would be it was United. But on who's orders, Republic's or United's? Either way it was botched but if you think you can sort this out with links at this point, you are dreaming. 

[betsy]

6 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Because it had a United flight number. Naming Republic would be the worst thing he could have done because people would just say he was making excuses. The fact remains, it was a Republic aircraft operated by Republic employees and it was Republic employees who displaced those passengers. Whether is was Republic or United agents who called the cops we don't know but my guess would be it was United. But on who's orders, Republic's or United's? Either way it was botched but if you think you can sort this out with links at this point, you are dreaming. 

Here's how you find out what, Wilber.  Answer these questions:

Who's getting sued?  Which airline is being named in a possible looming lawsuit by Dao?

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[Wilber]

Just now, betsy said:

 

Who's getting sued?  Who was being named in a possible looming lawsuit by Dao?

Because United sold him the ticket and it had a United flight number.

[betsy]

7 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Because United sold him the ticket and it had a United flight number.

United sold him the ticket, and United had him booted out to give the seats to United employees!   It was United employees who called the cops.  Dao was speaking with United on the phone, trying to explain his situation (before he got dragged out).

 

Here's the petition from the lawyer.  Scroll a bit down.  The respondents are City of Chicago and United Airlines. Nobody named Republic.  

 

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-lawsuit-press-conference-united-airlines-doctor-video-passenger-suing/

 

 

According to that petition, United Airlines operated that flight.

I don't care what you think happened here.  I'm going with the facts.  Obviously the lawyer of Dao would know who to sue.

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy

[Wilber]

Just now, betsy said:

United sold him the ticket, and United booted him out to give the seats to United employees! 

No, they were Republic employees. They do not work for, or have any connection to United other than they work for a company that is contracted to United. Republic provides the same services for American Airlines as American Eagle and to Delta Airlines as Delta Connector. This is not at all unusual.

In Canada, Air Canada Jazz does not belong to Air Canada, it is a totally separate company owned by Chorus Aviation and trades separately on the TSE. It's employees do not work for or have any affiliation with Air Canada or its employees. Many don't even belong to the same unions. The same goes for the other regional carriers that Air Canada uses which have Air Canada as part of their name.

[betsy]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

No, they were Republic employees. They do not work for, or have any connection to United other than they work for a company that is contracted to United. Republic provides the same services for American Airlines as American Eagle and to Delta Airlines as Delta Connector. This is not at all unusual.

In Canada, Air Canada Jazz does not belong to Air Canada, it is a totally separate company owned by Chorus Aviation and trades separately on the TSE. It's employees do not work for or have any affiliation with Air Canada or its employees. Many don't even belong to the same unions. The same goes for the other regional carriers that Air Canada uses which have Air Canada as part of their name.

 

Whatever.  It's still United Airlines, along with City of Chicago, that's being petitioned.  That's the fact. 

Maybe later, more details will come out.  But right now - it's UA that's on the hot seat. Not Republic.

Edited April 15, 2017 by betsy