EVIDENCE FOR GOD

[betsy]

 

[betsy]

So many alternate theories being put forth by militant atheist scientists, just so to avoid any creation event.  They no longer work for science. 

 

What Vilenkin had stated is a fact - that's why NASA is confident to have this statement in their FAQ section:

 

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Everywhere! Every place in space came from the Big Bang. It is space itself that has stretched.

The Big Bang theory is one of the most strongly supported theories in all of science. It explains the observed facts; it has made successful predictions; it has stood the test of time; and there is no alternate theory that the professional scientific community deems valid.

 

New observations could always cause the Big Bang theory to be abandoned, but that is not likely.

 

https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/faq.html

Edited April 11, 2017 by betsy

[GostHacked]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

So many alternate theories being put forth by militant atheist scientists, just so to avoid any creation event.  They no longer work for science.

Militant atheist scientists?  Compared to your militant Christian bible thumping?

[eyeball]

 

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The scientific evidence for a temporally finite universe continues to mount, and this fact leads us toward a theological conclusion about its origin. 

Meh...I've always been more interested in where I'm going than where I came from. I figure when I die and plunge through the event horizon of my death I'll explode into that nothingness and become a new universe.  That'll be something.

My creation better be ready to worship me or by God there'll be hell to pay.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

Meh...I've always been more interested in where I'm going than where I came from. I figure when I die and plunge through the event horizon of my death I'll explode into that nothingness and become a new universe.  That'll be something.

My creation better be ready to worship me or by God there'll be hell to pay.

  WHOA!

 

Assuming you become a new universe.....

.......what makes you think you are its creator.....and not just one of its many ingredients?

 

You could just be the baking soda in that pie.

Edited April 11, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

Meh...I've always been more interested in where I'm going than where I came from. I figure when I die and plunge through the event horizon of my death I'll explode into that nothingness

 

Uhhhhh.........actually,  you're stuck  looking back in the past! 

 

What "nothingness" are you on about? 

 

Hello?   Look above you - do you see nothing? 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

  WHOA!

 

Assuming you become a new universe.....

.......what makes you think you are its creator.....and not just one of its many ingredients?

A mushroom told me.

Quote

You could just be the baking soda in that pie.

Or a spore in a mushroom.

[eyeball]

54 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Uhhhhh.........actually,  you're stuck  looking back in the past! 

 

My death is behind me? How do you figure that?

 

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What "nothingness" are you on about? 

Death. You mean that wasn't obvious?

 

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Hello?   Look above you - do you see nothing? 

 

I see my ceiling at the moment.

[betsy]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

My death is behind me? How do you figure that?

 

You envision your death as exploding into "nothingness."

 

 

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Death. You mean that wasn't obvious?

No.  Because you don't make any sense. You're contradicting yourself. 

You aren't going to explode into "nothingness" if you're going to become a new universe!

 

 

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I see my ceiling at the moment.

Exactly.    

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by betsy

[GostHacked]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

You envision your death as exploding into "nothingness."

I came from nothing and exploded into existence.  Since I don't recall anything before my birth ..... I doubt that I will continue to exist in any form after i am dead. However if I am wrong, I won't be able to share that information with anyone still living.

1 hour ago, betsy said:

No.  Because you don't make any sense. You're contradicting yourself.

Careful, you've already contradicted yourself several times here in this thread.

[betsy]

Actually, it's not surprising that nature ends up getting worshipped. Who doesn't get awed by nature?  Just looking at nature, can make your heart sing!

Experiencing the power of nature is quite humbling. It brings you to your knees.

 

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"Scientists, like many others, are touched with awe at the order and complexity of nature.

https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/faq.html
 

What the ancient celt had felt as they tried to survive the havoc of a hurricane, is no different than what modern people felt as they tried
to survive a tornado. They all called and beseeched on whom they believe was the only one to help them.

The celts beseeched nature to spare them - but of course, they didn't have the kind of modern science we've had.
There was no explanation for those frightful phenomena. As they scrambled, they may've made promises to sacrifice more virgins....
or additional children...trying to appease this "angry god."
Unfortunately for the ancient people - they'd worshipped just another creation.

But due to modern science, modern man is not that ignorant.

Modern man calls God! He calls on the One who created and has control of everything. "Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"
What sensible modern man had bothered to beseech on nature to spare them as they fight for survival?  Have you heard anyone calling on a tree to save them?  "Oh mighty tree, oh mighty tree....."




Nature affirms God!

Nature is the natural revelation for God!
It is the discovery of certain attributes of God through the study of creation.
 

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In contrast to written revelation in which God talks to us directly (the Bible),  natural revelation is inferred from human observations.
 

While a Christian would likely argue the opposite is true, the skeptic's position has actually testified to a certain truth of Scripture.

Whenever skeptics argue that beliefs about God are easily explainable as mere outgrowths of the natural world, they are admitting the reality that creation holds sufficient revelation as to hold us accountable to its Creator.

 

Natural Revelation: good science is good theology

 

 

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Here are some additional examples of what nature might reveal to us about God (the following are not necessarily invisible attributes and, as such, may or may not be inclusive of Romans 1:20):

 

• Just like the cosmos seems to extol the universal application and eternality of physical laws and constants, the Bible extols the universal application and eternality of God's moral laws and constants. They both appear to apply everywhere and always, with only the rarest of exceptions.
• Just like the everything from microbiology to cosmology in the natural world reveals amazing pattern and order, the Bible reveals God's character and behavior to be of amazing pattern and order.
• Just like astronomers point out that our weak eyes are blind to the beautiful vistas of deep space nebulas which actually fill large parts of the night sky, the Bible points out our moral blindness to the majesty of God's spiritual world which is equally all around us. In both cases, it requires a long exposure to see the majesty that no quick glance will ever reveal.
• Just like humanity reluctantly learned to accept that it wasn't the sun which revolved around the earth, but the earth around the sun, we reluctantly must learn to accept that it's not God who revolves around us, but we who should humbly revolve around God.
• Just like our relative insignificance and smallness in this universe is being progressively revealed by advancing astronomy, our relative insignificance and unworthiness before God is progressively revealed as we each grow in the knowledge of Scripture.

 

http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/APP-NR.htm

Edited April 12, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I came from nothing and exploded into existence.

It is interesting that our personal experience of existence mirrors that of the big bang.  I wasn't here and then I was.  And death is certainly like an event horizon from which you don't return.

4 hours ago, betsy said:

You envision your death as exploding into "nothingness."

No, I envision death as nothingness.  The least substantial thing in the universe appears to be our consciousness but if there's anything to it at all it might resemble a hot, infinitely dense point singularity compared to the even more insubstantial nothingness around it.  We can see what happens after that all around us.

I envision the death of a conscious observer as being part of the process by which a new universe is born.

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You're contradicting yourself.

Where?

    

 

[betsy]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

It is interesting that our personal experience of existence mirrors that of the big bang.  I wasn't here and then I was.  And death is certainly like an event horizon from which you don't return.

No, I envision death as nothingness.  The least substantial thing in the universe appears to be our consciousness but if there's anything to it at all it might resemble a hot, infinitely dense point singularity compared to the even more insubstantial nothingness around it.  We can see what happens after that all around us.

I envision the death of a conscious observer as being part of the process by which a new universe is born.

Where?

    

 

 

You can't even recognize the contradiction in what you say - even after it's been explained to you?

If you're going to be a part of something in death - in your case, you say "being part of a process" - then, death wouldn't be "nothingness."  Whether you're a conscious observer or not, if you're part of something, that's not nothing.  You're talking mumbo-jumbo.  Senseless. You talk like the screenplay of a very awful, convoluted  B-movie (science fiction).  

 

All your assumptions has no basis whatsoever.........none!

And yet, you won't consider the possibility of a Creator?  That's what boggles me.

Edited April 12, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

All your assumptions has no basis whatsoever.........none!

And yet, you won't consider the possibility of a Creator?  That's what boggles me.

My assumptions are based on the theory of relativity and the fact that observers play a role in establishing reality. I get the sense the universe is a living thing and we're the means by which it reproduces.  I'm considering the possibility that I'm going to be a "creator".   When an observer dies in this universe a new one is born, seemingly out of nothing as near as the next generation of observers can tell.

I suspect you'll be in a permanent state of being boggled no matter how I try to word it.

 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

My assumptions are based on the theory of relativity and the fact that observers play a role in establishing reality. I get the sense the universe is a living thing and we're the means by which it reproduces.  I'm considering the possibility that I'm going to be a "creator".   When an observer dies in this universe a new one is born, seemingly out of nothing as near as the next generation of observers can tell.

I suspect you'll be in a permanent state of being boggled no matter how I try to word it.

 

 

Still sounds like a cheesy screenplay from an awful B-movie.

Anyway....whatever, eyeball.  If that's your thingy, what can I say?  To each his own.

 

This topic is about evidence for God. 

You're into your own explosion, and becoming your own creator - with nothing to support your assumption.  Well......you should create your own thread. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Still sounds like a cheesy screenplay from an awful B-movie.

Compared to your story? if you say so.

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with nothing to support your assumption.

It's got a far sounder theoretical basis than the hallucination floating your boat, by far.

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This topic is about evidence for God.

Of which there is none, zilch...nada.

 

[betsy]

Evidence comes in different ways and forms.  For Lumsden, it came after a lecture, through a lady with a yellow legal pad who followed him saying, “Doc, Doc, Doc, terrific lecture! Doc, I have a bunch of questions that I would like to ask you.”

 

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RICHARD LUMSDEN

 

If Dr. Richard Lumsden's (1937–1997) bio was on a theater marquee, it would read, “A Zealous Atheist and Evolutionist.” This professor of parasitology and cell biology also served as the Dean of the Graduate School at Tulane University.

As a renowned scientist he had trained 30 Ph.D. students, published more than 90 peer-reviewed papers and was well known for his outstanding research work in parasitology. He was awarded the Henry Baldwin Ward Medal, which is the highest recognized award worldwide in the field of parasitology.

In 1986, Professor Lumsden decided to use the last lecture in a course he was teaching that semester to launch a direct assault on Creationism.
He did this in retaliation for the Louisiana state law, that would later be declared unconstitutional, requiring that creationism be taught alongside evolution.


After becoming a new creature in Christ, it was difficult for Professor Lumsden to continue at Tulane University. His vocal conversion resulted in his ejection from the science department. Soon after, He took a position as the Director of Biology at the Institute of Creation Research and began teaching at the Master’s College from 1990 to 1996.

The Seed of Indoctrination - CSI

 

 

 

 

OH MY GOD.

Edited April 17, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

The Bible.

 

Yes, I give the Bible as evidence for the Christian God.  Please refer to the new thread.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by betsy

[Kerfuffle]

On 4/2/2017 at 12:43 AM, blackbird said:

I don't claim to have all the answers.  God created a perfect world with the Garden of Eden.  He created Adam and Eve and put them in the paradise.  The could have continued to live and multiply in this paradise.  He only gave them one instruction, that is, not to eat of a certain fruit in the garden.  The serpent came along and tempted Eve to eat the particular fruit.  She didn't have to.  Nobody forced her.  But she chose to eat the fruit and offered some to Adam and he ate.  In that moment they were in transgression against God and the future of the world and mankind was determined.  Forever after that fall, everyone is born with a fallen nature and an imperfect fallen world.  God did not create it to be a fallen world.  But mankind rebelled and that's what happened.  However, God in his mercy, sent his Son to die for the sins of a fallen man and by faith in this Son of God and his sacrifice for them, man is redeemed.

God created a perfect world with the Garden of Eden.  He created Adam and Eve and put them in the paradise....Even so, this story doesn't make a lot of sense if there were only two people in the world. This would suggest Adam and Eve's children were committing incest in order to populate this planet. And there's also the problem with Eve being created from Adam's rib. What is the significance of that? Why couldn't God just be the creator and make Eve out of dust like he did with Adam? And how can anyone possibly believe they both lived nearly 1,000 years? It's all preposterous.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

God created a perfect world with the Garden of Eden.  He created Adam and Eve and put them in the paradise....Even so, this story doesn't make a lot of sense if there were only two people in the world. This would suggest Adam and Eve's children were committing incest in order to populate this planet. And there's also the problem with Eve being created from Adam's rib. What is the significance of that? Why couldn't God just be the creator and make Eve out of dust like he did with Adam? And how can anyone possibly believe they both lived nearly 1,000 years? It's all preposterous.

I have heard that question about incest before.  But you are judging by today's standards.  The situation with Adam and Eve was a unique situation which God ordained.  So how they had grandchildren doesn't really matter. It may meet the definition of incest today but that was how it would have had to be in the beginning in order for the human race to multiply.  If that's the way God ordained it, who are we to make an issue out of it.  The Bible says the human race started with Adam and Eve.  And they populated the earth after that.  The Bible doesn't say it was a sin for them to procreate in that way.  Obviously they had no other choice.

I don't know the significance of God creating Eve from a rib of Adam.  I don't know it there is any significance.  That's just the way God did it.

I don't know if they lived 1000 years.  I know the Bible does mention some people who lived to be very old.  That's the way God created people and how things were in those days.  No point in looking at the accounts of what happened in the light of how things happen today in normal life.  Things were entirely different in these special events in the beginning.  You have to remember we are talking about supernatural events, not normal everyday events.  When God is behind supernatural events, then very unusual things happened. 

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident.  It's far to complex and intricate with incredible laws of physics and sub atomic particles that had to have a designer and creator.  Also, matter cannot create itself;  it had to come from somewhere.  Only could have come by the action of God.  There are lots of articles on the subject of creation at creation.org

Edited December 13, 2017 by blackbird

[Kerfuffle]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I have heard that question about incest before.  But you are judging by today's standards.  The situation with Adam and Eve was a unique situation which God ordained.  So how they had grandchildren doesn't really matter. It may meet the definition of incest today but that was how it would have had to be in the beginning in order for the human race to multiply.  If that's the way God ordained it, who are we to make an issue out of it.  The Bible says the human race started with Adam and Eve.  And they populated the earth after that.  The Bible doesn't say it was a sin for them to procreate in that way.  Obviously they had no other choice.

I don't know the significance of God creating Eve from a rib of Adam.  I don't know it there is any significance.  That's just the way God did it.

I don't know if they lived 1000 years.  I know the Bible does mention some people who lived to be very old.  That's the way God created people and how things were in those days.  No point in looking at the accounts of what happened in the light of how things happen today in normal life.  Things were entirely different in these special events in the beginning.  You have to remember we are talking about supernatural events, not normal everyday events.  When God is behind supernatural events, then very unusual things happened. 

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident.  It's far to complex and intricate with incredible laws of physics and sub atomic particles that had to have a designer and creator.  Also, matter cannot create itself;  it had to come from somewhere.  Only could have come by the action of God.  There are lots of articles on the subject of creation at creation.org

Also, matter cannot create itself;  it had to come from somewhere.  Only could have come by the action of God.  And  where did God come from...please dont say he has always been there

 

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion

Edited December 13, 2017 by Kerfuffle

[Kerfuffle]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I have heard that question about incest before.  But you are judging by today's standards.  The situation with Adam and Eve was a unique situation which God ordained.  So how they had grandchildren doesn't really matter. It may meet the definition of incest today but that was how it would have had to be in the beginning in order for the human race to multiply.  If that's the way God ordained it, who are we to make an issue out of it.  The Bible says the human race started with Adam and Eve.  And they populated the earth after that.  The Bible doesn't say it was a sin for them to procreate in that way.  Obviously they had no other choice.

I don't know the significance of God creating Eve from a rib of Adam.  I don't know it there is any significance.  That's just the way God did it.

I don't know if they lived 1000 years.  I know the Bible does mention some people who lived to be very old.  That's the way God created people and how things were in those days.  No point in looking at the accounts of what happened in the light of how things happen today in normal life.  Things were entirely different in these special events in the beginning.  You have to remember we are talking about supernatural events, not normal everyday events.  When God is behind supernatural events, then very unusual things happened. 

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident.  It's far to complex and intricate with incredible laws of physics and sub atomic particles that had to have a designer and creator.  Also, matter cannot create itself;  it had to come from somewhere.  Only could have come by the action of God.  There are lots of articles on the subject of creation at creation.org

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident. 

God lifted His hand, and from it burst a fountain-spray of fire, a million stupendous suns, which clove the blackness and soared, away and away and away, diminishing in magnitude and intensity as they pierced the far frontiers of Space, until at last they were but as diamond nailheads sparkling under the domed vast roof of the universe....and this is far more believable?  

 

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Kerfuffle

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident. 

God lifted His hand, and from it burst a fountain-spray of fire, a million stupendous suns, which clove the blackness and soared, away and away and away, diminishing in magnitude and intensity as they pierced the far frontiers of Space, until at last they were but as diamond nailheads sparkling under the domed vast roof of the universe....and this is far more believable?  

Any scientist will tell you cause and effect go hand in hand.  You can't have something without a cause.  It's as simple (or complex) as that.  You can't have a creation without a creator.  It's just not going to happen.

Edited December 13, 2017 by blackbird

[Kerfuffle]

13 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Any scientist will tell you cause and effect go hand in hand.  You can't have something without a cause.  It's as simple (or complex) as that.  You can't have a creation without a creator.  It's just not going to happen.

And where did the Creator come from?

[Ginsy]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

I have heard that question about incest before.  But you are judging by today's standards.  The situation with Adam and Eve was a unique situation which God ordained.  So how they had grandchildren doesn't really matter. It may meet the definition of incest today but that was how it would have had to be in the beginning in order for the human race to multiply.  If that's the way God ordained it, who are we to make an issue out of it.  The Bible says the human race started with Adam and Eve.  And they populated the earth after that.  The Bible doesn't say it was a sin for them to procreate in that way.  Obviously they had no other choice.

I don't know the significance of God creating Eve from a rib of Adam.  I don't know it there is any significance.  That's just the way God did it.

I don't know if they lived 1000 years.  I know the Bible does mention some people who lived to be very old.  That's the way God created people and how things were in those days.  No point in looking at the accounts of what happened in the light of how things happen today in normal life.  Things were entirely different in these special events in the beginning.  You have to remember we are talking about supernatural events, not normal everyday events.  When God is behind supernatural events, then very unusual things happened. 

The Bible is far more believable that God created the vast universe than to believe it happened by chance or accident.  It's far to complex and intricate with incredible laws of physics and sub atomic particles that had to have a designer and creator.  Also, matter cannot create itself;  it had to come from somewhere.  Only could have come by the action of God.  There are lots of articles on the subject of creation at creation.org

Which God ordained? According to, what, The Bible I assume? And what if I reject the bible as truth? How they had grandchildren matters. Scientists have discovered how people are born and the conditions leading up to birth, and this can be proven through observable facts, so if someone proposes that these grandchildren (and Adam and Eve..) were born in an entirely different way than everyone else who has ever existed, people are definitely going to be skeptical. Why should they accept God's "ordainment" as truth if it is questionable? 

The Bible says the human race started with Adam and Eve. Ok, if we are to believe that everything written in The Bible is true, what if The Bible also insisted that fire is not hot? Would you have no problem then walking through a pit of fire since The Bible claims it is not hot and of course The Bible is a book filled with truth? 

Eve being created from the rib of Adam, well, makes no logical sense. Is that just the way God did it, or was that just a fun thought the author of the bible had? Who knows. I don't. 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ginsy