EVIDENCE FOR GOD

[blackbird]

13 hours ago, betsy said:

 

If you have the time, you should create a thread specifically for that.  It'll help a lot of folks who are interested to read the Bible.

I have a lot of work I have to do.  But I might create a thread.

[eyeball]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:54 AM, betsy said:

So, just like in any investigation - if  you have the fingerprint of the suspect, his blood samples, fibers from his clothes, his voice samples, or/and his dna - all cumulative evidence against the suspect -  they all point to him, the verdict is reached!  He is found guilty.

 

You can't respond to one evidence here, and ignore all the rest.  They become a package deal.

 

So don't tell me there's no evidence!  We have CUMULATIVE evidence for the existence of God!

Geez Louise Betsy, you have God's DNA?

Well why didn't you say so right from page 1?

 

[betsy]

AS a continuation to the OP's  #1 evidence for the existence of God - that the Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation, the discovery of science that the universe is expanding confirms what was  described thousands of years ago!
 

However, "expanding" is not the accurate term to describe it.  The universe is STRETCHING!

 

Quote

The universe has not expanded from any one spot since the Big Bang — rather, space itself has been stretching, and carrying matter with it.

http://www.space.com/52-the-expanding-universe-from-the-big-bang-to-today.html

 

 

Therefore, the word "stretch," describing the heavens, used 11 times by different prophets, from different timelines - described thousands of years before science discovered it - can be taken literally. 

The Bible got it right the first time describing it as, "stretching."

 

And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature [was] as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Ezekiel 1:22


[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
- Isaiah 40:22


Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isaiah 42:5


Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 44:24

I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 45:12



And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where [is] the fury of the oppressor?
Isaiah 51:13


He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jeremiah 10:12

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15



He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7



Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psalms 104:2


The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zechariah 12:1

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by betsy

[eyeball]

Just show us the damn DNA and forget all this other nonsense.

[overthere]

On 4/6/2017 at 6:22 AM, betsy said:

It depends.  Is every word true?

The Bible  has figures of speech.  If it says it rains cats and dogs, are we supposed to take that literally?

 

Is every metaphor to be taken literally?  Like the Shepherd and the sheep?  The Lamb of God?

That was not a very effective dodge to a simple question.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, overthere said:

That was not a very effective dodge to a simple question.

 

This is what you'd asked:

 

 

Quote

 

On 4/5/2017 at 6:00 PM, overthere said:

Betsy, do you believe in the literal truth of the Bible.?  Is every word true and sacred?

 

No I'm not dodging.   It's that word, "literal," that I'm reacting to.

And I'm saying, it depends.  Not everything is to be taken literally since the Bible is also loaded with figures of speech, and metaphors.  I gave examples of  the Shepherd (Jesus) and the sheep (disciples).

 

But yes I believe, since the Bible is God-inspired, every word is sacred, and true.

 

2 Timothy 3

The Man of God and the Word of God

¹⁰ But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, ¹¹ persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. ¹² Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. ¹³ But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. ¹⁴ But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, ¹⁵ and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

¹⁶ All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Edited April 9, 2017 by betsy

[GostHacked]

So God views us as sheep? That's not very nice.

[betsy]

Let's do a recap of the evidences that were given as evidence for God:

 

The Creator Has Intimate Knowledge Of His Creation – OP.

Fine Tuning - page 1

Why Scientific Evidence Leads To The Conclusion That God Exist (video) – page 1

 

Testimonies from Billions of People All Over The World

Examples of Transformed Lives – page 5

 

Science (NAS) supports the possibility of God's existence – page 5

Argument From Change – page 6

DNA – page 6

Cumulative Evidence – page 6

The Creator has intimate knowledge of His creation: Expanding/Stretching Universe – page 8

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again:

 

So, just like in any investigation - if  you have the fingerprint of the suspect, his blood samples, fibers from his clothes, his voice samples, or/and his dna - all cumulative evidence against the suspect -  they all point to him, the verdict is reached!  He is found guilty.

 

You can't respond to one evidence here, and ignore all the rest.  They become a package deal.

 

So don't tell me there's no evidence!  We have CUMULATIVE evidence for the existence of God!

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

Sit down, and ponder on this:

 

Only the Creator knows about His creation.  Only the Creator can describe His creation. 

 

Thousands of years ago, the Bible gave descriptions of the universe that science had confirmed only recently in the 20th century.

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

Sit down, and ponder on this:

 

Only the Creator knows about His creation.  Only the Creator can describe His creation. 

 

Thousands of years ago, the Bible gave descriptions of the universe that science had confirmed only recently in the 20th century.

Didn't they think the Sun went around the Earth, or something?  Wouldn't God have made the situation pretty clear right off the bat?

[overthere]

Quote

But yes I believe, since the Bible is God-inspired, every word is sacred, and true

So, kill adulterers and homosexuals, etc etc etc.

 

No possibility of applying the grace and forgiveness of Jesus to everybody, not just The Chosen??

[betsy]

3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Didn't they think the Sun went around the Earth, or something?  Wouldn't God have made the situation pretty clear right off the bat?

 

Who is "they?"

 

We don't know how God thinks.  Maybe science was created that revelations about God will slowly come about - like peeling an onion?   Deal with the given descriptions that were confirmed by science.

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Who is "they?"

 

We don't know how God thinks.  Maybe science was created that revelations about God will slowly come about - like peeling an onion?   Deal with the given descriptions that were confirmed by science.

Pretty much everyone, with the odd exception, up until Copernicus.

My point is, if this be the case:

"Thousands of years ago, the Bible gave descriptions of the universe that science had confirmed only recently in the 20th century."

One would expect them (the Bible people) to get such a basic astronomical fact in there right at the beginning.

i.e. "let there be light, and let us go around it, because it's bigger than we are"

[betsy]

2 hours ago, overthere said:

So, kill adulterers and homosexuals, etc etc etc.

 

No possibility of applying the grace and forgiveness of Jesus to everybody, not just The Chosen??

 

That  was in the Old Testament.  They were laws meant for the Jews.  All those penalties belonged at a particular time in history when God dealt with His covenant people.  They were changed with the coming of Jesus Christ. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[betsy]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Pretty much everyone, with the odd exception, up until Copernicus.

 

 

Where in the Bible does it say that?  Cite the verse please.

 

I'm referring to what is written in the Bible, and the descriptions that I'd given so far.

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

Just now, betsy said:

 

Where in the Bible does it say that?

I never said it did. 

[GostHacked]

35 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

That  was in the Old Testament.  They were laws meant for the Jews.  All those penalties belonged at a particular time in history when God dealt with His covenant people.  They were changed with the coming of Jesus Christ.

I am not sure any version of the Bible aside from the original one would be enough to support your notion as evidence for God. If things changed in the books, then the true word of god is no longer valid.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I never said it did. 

Well I'm talking about what's in the Bible.  We're not on the same page.

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

49 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I am not sure any version of the Bible aside from the original one would be enough to support your notion as evidence for God. If things changed in the books, then the true word of god is no longer valid.

 

Jesus is part of the Book.  Jesus is God incarnate.

 

Furthermore, redemption through the Messiah has been written in the Old Testament - therefore, nothing has really changed!  The Messiah fulfilled what was written.

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, betsy said:

Well I'm talking about what's in the Bible.

We're drifting.  I was asking you, if the Bible was scientifically knowledgable enough to give descriptions of the universe that science has only confirmed as recently as the 20th century, how come they didn't mention the orbit thing?

Edited April 10, 2017 by bcsapper

[betsy]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

We're drifting.  I was asking you, if the Bible was scientifically knowledgabe enough to give descriptions of the universe that science has only confirmed as recently as the 20th century, how come they didn't mention the orbit thing?

 

  EH?

 

That would be like you serving us your dish made with your secret recipe (and which science analyzed and revealed the ingredients in it)......and someone comes along asking, "Is bcsapper scientifically knowledgeable enough to make that dish which ingredients science had revealed?   That doesn't make any sense, does it?

 

The Bible isn't meant to be a science book! 

BUT................it just so happens that modern science has confirmed some of the descriptions in the Bible about the universe.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by betsy

[Guest]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

 

  EH?

 

"Thousands of years ago, the Bible gave descriptions of the universe that science had confirmed only recently in the 20th century."

 

That would be like you serving us your dish made with your secret recipe (and which science analyzed and revealed the ingredients in it)......and someone comes along asking, "Is bcsapper scientifically knowledgeable enough to make that dish which ingredients science had revealed?

No it wouldn't.

 

[betsy]

Excerpt from a detailed article:

Quote

WHY PHYSICISTS CAN'T AVOID A CREATION EVENT

In honor of Stephen Hawking’s 70^th birthday, a meeting of the minds took place to discuss the state of cosmology.  New Scientist[1] reported on the events of the night, one of which was a talk delivered by famed cosmologist, Alexander Vilenkin, describing why physical reality must have a beginning.  But first, a little background is in order.

 

For a long time scientists held that the universe was eternal and unchanging.  This allowed them to avoid the God question—who or what caused the universe—because they reasoned that a beginningless universe needed no cause.[2]  They recognized that if the universe began to exist in the finite past that it begged for a cause that was outside of the time-space-continuum.  As Stephen Hawking told his well-wishers in a pre-recorded message, “A point of creation would be a place where science broke down. One would have to appeal to religion and the hand of God.”

Scientific discoveries in the early and mid-20^th century, however, forced cosmologists to the uncomfortable conclusion that our universe came into being in the finite past.  The scientific consensus was that the origin of our universe constituted the origin of physical reality itself.  Before the Big Bang, literally nothing existed.  The universe came into being from nothing and nowhere.  This sounded too much like the creation ex nihilo of Genesis, however, and seemed to require the God of Genesis to make it happen.  As a result, some cosmologists were feverishly looking for ways to restore an eternal universe.

 

 

The scientific evidence for a temporally finite universe continues to mount, and this fact leads us toward a theological conclusion about its origin.  As Robert Jastrow famously wrote, “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream.  He has scaled the mountains of ignorance: he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

 

https://theosophical.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/alexander-vilenkin-all-the-evidence-we-have-says-that-the-universe-had-a-beginning/

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]