OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, kactus said: There are no reasons but to punish the ordinary citizens of those countries for no known reasons....And btw spare me the rhetoric that is regurgitated by the same people here that Iranian government is 'world number one terrorist' cause from where I am standing there are other countries with far worse records yet not on that list.... You still don't get it. No point 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: The reasoning behind the ban for these specific countries has been discussed here the forum numerous times already. If you don't get that, or refuse to accept facts there's no point discussing further with you. This is a waste of time. Agreed...the ban is temporary for better vetting. They ignore that part for obvious reasons. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, OftenWrong said: You still don't get it. No point Yup as I had expected. A one liner drivel..... It's my thread and if you cannot hold the civility to express your point then get out... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, kactus said: Yup as I had expected. A one liner drivel..... It's my thread and if you cannot hold the civility to express your point then get out... It's a public forum, not "your thread". Absolutely nothing is yours here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Trump’s Second Bid at Travel Ban Knocked Down by Two U.S. Judges https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-15/trump-s-second-travel-ban-is-blocked-by-u-s-judge-j0bk602s What is so ridiculous about this ban is that it uses ordinary genuine immigrants as hostage under the pre-text of security whilst neglecting the real factors...Now the Courts in Hawaii and Maryland halt revised executive order 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: It's a public forum, not "your thread". Absolutely nothing is yours here. Agreed...and ironic considering this tread's topic. Silencing opposing views is all the rage now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, kactus said: “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin What was the part you said earlier about discussing with "civility"? Think you missed that one. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Agreed...the ban is temporary for better vetting. They ignore that part for obvious reasons. Yes, and as I understand it simply extends the work that President Obama was already doing. Thing of beauty ain't it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, OftenWrong said: Yes, and as I understand it simply extends the work that President Obama was already doing. Thing of beauty ain't it Agreed...if travel bans were good enough for five previous presidents...they are good enough for President Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Watch this video where the Irish PM get gives a lecture to Donald Trump about the role of immigrants to Donald Trump. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14957550/trump-immigration-enda-kenny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cum Laude Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, kactus said: Watch this video where the Irish PM get gives a lecture to Donald Trump about the role of immigrants to Donald Trump. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14957550/trump-immigration-enda-kenny Kactus, I have a far better solution than a Wall. But, for Trump to do it would cause The Establishment to have an apoplectic crisis and call for another JFK event. But, I digress…. Price immigrant labor so high that it becomes insane to keep hiring them! This can be done by repealing Taft-Hartley, double the budget of the Department of Labor and energize the moribund NLRB, have the DOL send out roving bands of field staff going from farms to factories offering Card Check, and expanding Davis-Bacon. Once Jose, Mola Ram, and Muhammad cost every bit as much as a White Anglo Male to hire, then the economics will force employers to reconsider their hiring practices. To keep unethical companies from running to the Corporate Promised Land, a minimum 15% import tariff against low-wage countries will mitigate the labor arbitrage advantage. A Robot Labor Tax (60% domestic and 80% import) on the value created by the robot will arrest the trend of unemployment due to that self-destroying demigod, “High Tech.”. Where will the difference be made up? The Top 1% will have to simultaneously take LESS and pay MORE in taxes! They’ve enjoyed a 36-year windfall from Reaganomics and it’s time to claw it back. They could all take a major hit and still live large. But, it would also cut deeply into their ability to distort the political process via bribes and favors. Boo Hoo…. If McDonalds and BK start automating their restaurants, TAX THE DOGSHIT out of those stores! Tie ANY tax relief to hiring and wages. The stores that pay $12-15/hr for non-management workers will receive generous tax breaks on profits; provided they keep food prices in line with historic trends. Those corporations make enough profits to pay everybody well; not just the fat cats. Anyway, the Wall by itself won’t get it done. The body-politic itself needs a massive reorientation of priorities. Edited March 17, 2017 by Cum Laude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Cum Laude said: Quote Kactus, I have a far better solution than a Wall. But, for Trump to do it would cause The Establishment to have an apoplectic crisis and call for another JFK event. But, I digress…. His impeachment or another JFK crisis is the sound bites of everyday conversation regardless of your solution but do carry on... Quote Price immigrant labor so high that it becomes insane to keep hiring them! This can be done by repealing Taft-Hartley, double the budget of the Department of Labor and energize the moribund NLRB, have the DOL send out roving bands of field staff going from farms to factories offering Card Check, and expanding Davis-Bacon. We are not just talking about basic skill workers. There are immigrants whose skills can not just be replaced by average joe. Quote Once Jose, Mola Ram, and Muhammad cost every bit as much as a White Anglo Male to hire, then the economics will force employers to reconsider their hiring practices. That's stating the obvious and not a rocket science but since you want to talk purely from economics perspective let me enlighten you with a simple old business rule that will throw off your argument once and for all...Since you want to talk about cheap workers from Muslim countries or Mexicans that you have eloquently branded with a name as a businessman I would never hire someone who is so damn lazy to get off his butt and do a job those cheap immigrants are happy to do. If I cannot find a suitable person from the native country that is not willing to do a job a Mohammed/ Jose or Andrzej Brys can do at a much better quality I will recruit the foreigner. This is BUSINESS not appeasement.... Quote To keep unethical companies from running to the Corporate Promised Land, a minimum 15% import tariff against low-wage countries will mitigate the labor arbitrage advantage. A Robot Labor Tax (60% domestic and 80% import) on the value created by the robot will arrest the trend of unemployment due to that self-destroying demigod, “High Tech.”. The automation process is inevitable and we will be facing it one way or another...Those robots you are referring to still require human intervention of deciphering the codes and you still need those Indian programmers (South Asians as you like to refer to them) for whose skills there is still a shortage... Quote Where will the difference be made up? The Top 1% will have to simultaneously take LESS and pay MORE in taxes! They’ve enjoyed a 36-year windfall from Reaganomics and it’s time to claw it back. They could all take a major hit and still live large. But, it would also cut deeply into their ability to distort the political process via bribes and favors. Boo Hoo…. That is an old game...Last time I checked money talks and bribery still happens within the political system..... Quote If McDonalds and BK start automating their restaurants, TAX THE DOGSHIT out of those stores! Tie ANY tax relief to hiring and wages. The stores that pay $12-15/hr for non-management workers will receive generous tax breaks on profits; provided they keep food prices in line with historic trends. Those corporations make enough profits to pay everybody well; not just the fat cats. Anyway, the Wall by itself won’t get it done. The body-politic itself needs a massive reorientation of priorities. That's all sweet and lots of hypothesis in regards to keep the food inflation in line with trends but guess what the world revolved around some wishful thinking doesn't work that way...A lot of ifs and buts in this precarious world we are living doesn't mean much.... Last time I checked McD was still offering franchise to prospects to many brown skinned non Anglo white franchisees who not only had one franchisee but several... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 18 hours ago, kactus said: Watch this video where the Irish PM get gives a lecture to Donald Trump about the role of immigrants to Donald Trump. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14957550/trump-immigration-enda-kenny From the link-"We came and we became Americans." Assimilated into the mainstream US culture, which is not difficult for Irish to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: From the link-"We came and we became Americans." Assimilated into the mainstream US culture, which is not difficult for Irish to do. Neither are Iranians or any other potential immigrants for that matter...My point was and remains America is what it is for the contributions made by immigrants. Unless we are going to play the same old culture excuse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, kactus said: Neither are Iranians or any other potential immigrants for that matter...My point was and remains America is what it is for the contributions made by immigrants. Unless we are going to play the same old culture excuse.... When you come from a culture that chops people's heads off in public stadiums, or right in the streets, for committing perceived "moral offences" against Allah, it's not an excuse. Whenever executions are carried out publicly in Iran, children are often among the spectators. Iranian journalist Mokhtar Khandani said, "In Kermanshah, where I reside, I see in many places that street executions are carried out. At such venues, unfortunately I see a lot of children who are there and witness the scene. In the eyes of some children, it might seem like a game."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_executions_in_Iran This is a culture where brutality is completely normalized. You are however free to make excuses for them... Edited March 18, 2017 by OftenWrong link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) On 3/12/2017 at 3:21 PM, ?Impact said: While that might be true for country with very new and developing government like Somalia, how could that apply to Iran which is highly developed? Iran is an implacable enemy of the US, and is more likely to help terrorists targeting the West by smuggling weapons in diplomatic bags than to slap them in jail. Especially if they promise to target Jews. Edited March 18, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 On 3/12/2017 at 3:31 PM, ?Impact said: Can you give examples of citizens of Iran involved in terrorist activities in the US? Most of those from Iran that I know are high educated and fit very well into North American culture and economy. No matter if they are Muslim or not, they don't want to be in Iran because they don't support the regime there. Are you saying Iran DOES NOT support international terrorism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: When you come from a culture that chops people's heads off in public stadiums, or right in the streets, for committing perceived "moral offences" against Allah, it's not an excuse. Whenever executions are carried out publicly in Iran, children are often among the spectators. Iranian journalist Mokhtar Khandani said, "In Kermanshah, where I reside, I see in many places that street executions are carried out. At such venues, unfortunately I see a lot of children who are there and witness the scene. In the eyes of some children, it might seem like a game."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_executions_in_Iran This is a culture where brutality is completely normalized. You are however free to make excuses for them... You have missed the point...We are talking about the immigrants and their assimilation into the country they are living not the governments.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 In July 2012, The Times of India reported that New Delhi police have concluded that terrorists belonging to a branch of Iran’s military, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, were responsible for an attack on 13 February 2012, during which a bomb explosion targeted an Israeli diplomat in New Delhi, India, wounding one embassy staff member, a local employee, and two passers-by. According to the report, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards may have planned other attacks on Israeli targets around the world as well. Aggrey Adoli, Kenya's police chief in Kenya's coastal region, said on 22 June 2012 that two Iranians, Ahmad Abolfathi Mohammad and Sayed Mansour Mousavi, believed to members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force,[49] were arrested and suspected of being involved in terrorism. One of the Iranians led counter-terrorism officers to recover 15 kilograms of a powdery substance believed to be explosive.[50] The two Iranians allegedly admitted to plotting to attack United States, Israeli, Saudi, or British targets in Kenya.[49] In court, Police Sgt. Erick Opagal, an investigator with Kenya's Anti-Terrorism Police Unit, said that the two Iranians had shipped over 100 kilograms of powerful explosives into Kenya.[51] It was later revealed that the targets included Gil Haskel, Israel's ambassador to Kenya. During a visit to Kenya in August, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon praised Kenya for its efforts in stopping Iranian terror threats against Israeli and Jewish targets. Uganda, Ethiopia, and Kenya all expressed concern with Ayalon regarding Iran's attempts to increase terror activity in Africa.[52] According to Seth G. Jones and Peter Bergen, the 2003 Riyadh compound bombings were planned by al Qaeda operatives in Iran, with apparent Iranian complicity.[54][66] In May 2003, then-State Department official Ryan Crocker provided information on the upcoming attack to Iranian officials, who apparently took no action.[44] In March 2015, a US federal judge found Iran, along with Sudan, complicit in the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole by AQ, stating, "Iran was directly involved in establishing Al-Qaeda’s Yemen network and supported training and logistics for Al-Qaeda in the Gulf region", and that “Iran used Lebanese Hizballah . . . as its primary ‘facilitator’ for providing training and communications support".[70] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Argus said: Iran is an implacable enemy of the US, and is more likely to help terrorists targeting the West by smuggling weapons in diplomatic bags than to slap them in jail. Especially if they promise to target Jews. That's irrelevant! We are talking about immigrants not governments. I wish people will stop with these antagonising comments about 72 virgins, kill Jews, beheading and derailment of conversations.... Refer to above.....If you want to politicise it then how many Iranians do you know of that have plotted terrorist attacks in US soil? How many Saudis/ Egyptians and citizens of UAE do you know that have committed terrorist activities in the US and conveniently turn a blind eye on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Just now, Argus said: In July 2012, The Times of India reported that New Delhi police have concluded that terrorists belonging to a branch of Iran’s military, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, were responsible for an attack on 13 February 2012, during which a bomb explosion targeted an Israeli diplomat in New Delhi, India, wounding one embassy staff member, a local employee, and two passers-by. According to the report, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards may have planned other attacks on Israeli targets around the world as well. Aggrey Adoli, Kenya's police chief in Kenya's coastal region, said on 22 June 2012 that two Iranians, Ahmad Abolfathi Mohammad and Sayed Mansour Mousavi, believed to members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force,[49] were arrested and suspected of being involved in terrorism. One of the Iranians led counter-terrorism officers to recover 15 kilograms of a powdery substance believed to be explosive.[50] The two Iranians allegedly admitted to plotting to attack United States, Israeli, Saudi, or British targets in Kenya.[49] In court, Police Sgt. Erick Opagal, an investigator with Kenya's Anti-Terrorism Police Unit, said that the two Iranians had shipped over 100 kilograms of powerful explosives into Kenya.[51] It was later revealed that the targets included Gil Haskel, Israel's ambassador to Kenya. During a visit to Kenya in August, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon praised Kenya for its efforts in stopping Iranian terror threats against Israeli and Jewish targets. Uganda, Ethiopia, and Kenya all expressed concern with Ayalon regarding Iran's attempts to increase terror activity in Africa.[52] According to Seth G. Jones and Peter Bergen, the 2003 Riyadh compound bombings were planned by al Qaeda operatives in Iran, with apparent Iranian complicity.[54][66] In May 2003, then-State Department official Ryan Crocker provided information on the upcoming attack to Iranian officials, who apparently took no action.[44] In March 2015, a US federal judge found Iran, along with Sudan, complicit in the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole by AQ, stating, "Iran was directly involved in establishing Al-Qaeda’s Yemen network and supported training and logistics for Al-Qaeda in the Gulf region", and that “Iran used Lebanese Hizballah . . . as its primary ‘facilitator’ for providing training and communications support".[70] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism You want to talk about this open another thread and talk about the government....This has nothing to do with genuine Iranians contributing to the society they live in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Iran has nothing to do with international terrorism. Hezbollah says so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 non sequitur! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, kactus said: You have missed the point...We are talking about the immigrants and their assimilation into the country they are living not the governments.... We are talking about the culture where they come from, and problems that arise when they bring it with them. Assimilation is the key thing that's needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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