Why all the worldwide turmoil? (9/11 thread)

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

What about the hijackers?  Why would they willingly die for a hoax?

You're conveniently forgetting that Todd Beamer, who was supposedly one of the victims on Flight 93, won the best actor oscar in 2003 and 2005,  the Nobel prize for literature in 2008, and then went on to become the Prime Minister of Australia. How do you explain that, eh?

Edited April 20, 2017 by bcsapper

[betsy]

A great long detailed account.

 

Quote

 

The extraordinary last calls of Flight UA93

 

By Andrew Alderson and Susan Bisset

 21 Oct 2001

 

From the time the passengers of United Airlines Flight 93 first buckled their seatbelts at 8am on September 11, until 10.04am, when the plane nosedived into a disused quarry in Pennsylvania, 26 calls were made from the telephones fitted into the back of the Boeing 757's seats. One was being monitored by the FBI. No one knows how many were made on the passengers' own mobile telephones.

The calls were made to relatives, friends and the emergency services. Some were made to telephone answering machines to record final expressions of love. Most were made in the 20 minutes before the plane crashed and tell the extraordinary story of how the passengers and crew, knowing that three other planes had already been used as guided missiles, were going to fight back against the hijackers.

 

 

The FBI is also puzzled that UA93 was the only hijacked flight that had four, not five, terrorists on board. It is possible that a fifth man failed to turn up, thereby confusing those on board so much that they delayed the hijack.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1360088/The-extraordinary-last-calls-of-Flight-UA93.html

Edited April 20, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

Conflicting information that illustrates that the press have really been in on this, at least in the sense of supplying their media as propagandists. That much is clear.

 

Quote

1. On September 29, 2001, the FBI received detailed records from Verizon’s wireless subscriber office in Bedminster, NJ, that Todd Beamer’s cell phone made 19 outgoing calls after the alleged 10:03 AM crash time of Flight UA 93. [22] This fact, along with the sixth one, indicates either that the man self-identified as Todd Beamer was not on UA 93, or Tod Beamer’s cell phone was not on the flight, or this flight did not crash.

2. Todd Beamer was celebrated for having said: “Are you guys ready? Let’s roll!” But this expression was not contained in the FBI’s summary of its interview with Lisa Jeffersonon the day of the phone call. Instead, according to the FBI summary: “At approximately 9:00 AM Central time, Beamer said the passengers were about to attack the hijackers. … [H]e asked Jefferson to call [redacted] to tell them that he loved them. … Next, Jefferson heard another passenger give the go-ahead to make their move. After that point, she heard nothing.” [23]

3.  

http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-1/

[betsy]

8 hours ago, hot enough said:

Conflicting information that illustrates that the press have really been in on this, at least in the sense of supplying their media as propagandists. That much is clear.

 

http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-1/

Cee-Cee Lyle was  said to have whispered "it's a frame" at the end of her phone call. 

So, where are Todd Beamer and Cee-Cee Lyle?  They've got to be both dead, right?  They've both vanished and families never saw them again.  After that kind of a "frame-up," they can't be allowed to stay alive!  Both should realize that, right?  Now, let's analyze your theories.....answer these questions.

 

WHY ARE THEY BOTH WILLING TO DIE FOR A HOAX?

 

1.  If there is this huge  - very huge cover up that involved hundreds of people - now, why would the FBI let a detailed verizon's account to float around that shows outgoing phone-calls are coming from Beamer's cell phone?

Phone records are among the first to be scrutinized whenever there's an investigation!  The FBI, or whoever is behind this massive cover-up (that should make another Bourne sequel), ought to have known that!  Cell phones and phone records would've been the first to disappear!

 

2.  If for some miraculous reason Beamer is still alive - why is he still using his cell phone after the crash?  Destroying his cell phone would've been among his top basic must-do, and he would've had another cell-phone available.

 

3.  If Cee-Cee would end up being defiant about this conspiracy plan and divulge "it's a frame" at the end of her call -  why was she so cooperative all along?  Why willingly die unnecessarily?

 

 

Though the narratives you gave above regarding "let's roll," are slightly different - they hadn't changed from the fact that the passengers were going to fight back!  The passengers fighting back - that's the issue. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

A conspiracy this huge wouldn't be leaving signs that can be exploited by amateur sleuths like consensus 9/11.

 

Gee.....9/11 truthers are saying our intelligence agencies (they have to be involved).....are all peopled by morons.

Edited April 21, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

Yes, the 911 Commission was a fraud, just like the entire USGOCT is a fraud. 

 

Quote

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon

By Dan Eggen

Washington Post Staff Writer 
Wednesday, August 2, 2006

 

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.

 

[hot enough]

United 93, the alleged crash that the propagandist movie was made about, was still flying some 20 minutes after it allegedly crashed. 

 

Quote

IT IS CONCLUSIVE - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE WELL AFTER CRASH 
UNITED 93 IN THE VICINITY OF FORT WAYNE, INDIANA AND CHAMPAIGN, ILLINOIS AT TIME OF SHANKSVILLE ALLEGED CRASH

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - More information has surfaced which conclusively demonstrates the aircraft reportedly used on 9/11, were airborne well after their alleged crashes. This article supplements our last, "ACARS CONFIRMED - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE LONG AFTER CRASH" in which the ACARS system is explained as well as how to determine if a message were received by the aircraft, along with how ground stations are selected through Flight Tracking Protocol based on messages routed to United 175, N612UA. We now have further evidence which places United 93, N591UA, in the vicinity of Champaign, IL, 500+ miles away from the alleged crash site in Shanksville, PA. This information is further corroborated by a (now former) United Airlines Manager of Flight Dispatch Michael J. Winter.

On January 28, 2002, Mr. Winter gave an interview to the FBI at United Headquarters near Chicago, IL(1). During this interview, Mr. Winter reviewed a list of ACARS messages explaining the contents and which messages were received or rejected. The messages provided below are the most significant and fatal to what we have been told by the 9/11 Commission. Two messages were routed through the Fort Wayne, Indiana remote ground stations (FWA), followed by two more messages which were routed through Champaign, IL (CMI).

 

[hot enough]

On 4/21/2017 at 4:17 AM, betsy said:

by amateur sleuths like consensus 9/11.

Indicative of how frightened believers of the phantasmagorical USGOCT are.

The panel members for Consensus 911 are academics, pilots, lawyers, scientists, all of them many notches in expertise above the average Joe/Joess, the kind of people who are regularly empanelled for jury duty.  

http://www.consensus911.org/panel-members/

Edited April 22, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

1.  

Quote

 

1. This fact, along with the sixth one, indicates either that the man self-identified as Todd Beamer was not on UA 93, or Tod Beamer’s cell phone was not on the flight, or this flight did not crash.

http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-1/

 

Flight 93 never crashed. There is way way way too much contrary evidence that illustrates that the USGOCT is a gigantic fraud from beginning to end. 

Why are there so many people willing to engage in such deep personal self delusion? 

 

 

[hot enough]

Quote

Todd Beamer was celebrated for having said: “Are you guys ready? Let’s roll!” But this expression was not contained in the FBI’s summary of its interview with Lisa Jefferson on the day of the phone call. Instead, according to the FBI summary: “At approximately 9:00 AM Central time, Beamer said the passengers were about to attack the hijackers. … [H]e asked Jefferson to call [redacted] to tell them that he loved them. … Next, Jefferson heard another passenger give the go-ahead to make their move. After that point, she heard nothing.” [23]

Ibid

Here is a dandy example of how propaganda works. It was all a phony script made for TV and the gullible ones. The meme, Todd Beamer says these "made in propaganda heaven words", is set in everyone's mind but factually, the words are not spoken by the Todd Beamer at all. 

[Omni]

2 hours ago, hot enough said:

1.  

Flight 93 never crashed. There is way way way too much contrary evidence that illustrates that the USGOCT is a gigantic fraud from beginning to end. 

Why are there so many people willing to engage in such deep personal self delusion? 

 

 

Maybe because most of us are more sensible than to buy into the bafflegab from the likes of consensus911. 

[betsy]

2 hours ago, hot enough said:

Indicative of how frightened believers of the phantasmagorical USGOCT are.

The panel members for Consensus 911 are academics, pilots, lawyers, scientists, all of them many notches in expertise above the average Joe/Joess, the kind of people who are regularly empanelled for jury duty.  

http://www.consensus911.org/panel-members/

 

Assuming they are indeed academics and pilots, and scientists.....but they are not investigators or detectives.  

 

Heck, even I can see a big problem with Todd Beamer still using his cell phone - several times -  AFTER the crash, when he's supposed to have died in that crash!  He's part of the conspiracy - that's what consensus 9/11 is saying.  So, why did he make that big mistake???

 

This is serious accusation here of a conspiracy, involving deaths of thousands.  Would the people planning this magnitude of a conspiracy, chose someone incompetent for the job?

 

You think a conspiracy this big (not to mention this serious), they wouldn't have planned it so that no one will make big, stupid mistake like Beamer did (if he indeed made those calls)?

 

ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS!

Edited April 22, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

2 hours ago, hot enough said:

Here is a dandy example of how propaganda works. It was all a phony script made for TV and the gullible ones. The meme, Todd Beamer says these "made in propaganda heaven words", is set in everyone's mind but factually, the words are not spoken by the Todd Beamer at all. 

So what?  Maybe the person doing the transcript misunderstood, or got carried away....

 

The point is that people in United 93 fought back.  That's the fact.

Furthermore, we don't just rely on Todd Beamer's words alone.  He's not the only one who made a phone call to a loved one.

Edited April 22, 2017 by betsy

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Maybe because most of us are more sensible than to buy into the bafflegab from the likes of consensus911. 

Sensible just cannot be your long suit, Omni. I heard thru the grapevine that you are a pilot and all this time you and Wilber have been hiding your "expertise" under something or other. You call that sensible?

Edited April 22, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

43 minutes ago, betsy said:

So what?  Maybe the person doing the transcript misunderstood, or got carried away....

 

The point is that people in United 93 fought back.  That's the fact.

Furthermore, we don't just rely on Todd Beamer's words alone.  He's not the only one who made a phone call to a loved one.

Try to grasp the life preserver, Betsy, not the straws. The calls were faked just like the crash was faked. A jumbo jet doesn't disappear into the ground. 

Flight 93 was still flying 20 or so minutes after the "crash". It was some 500 miles away from Shanksville. 

Why do you seek so desperately to defend such deeply evil murderers? Is that what christianity tells you to do?

[hot enough]

54 minutes ago, betsy said:

You think a conspiracy this big (not to mention this serious), they wouldn't have planned it so that no one will make big, stupid mistake like Beamer did (if he indeed made those calls)?

The mistakes they made are legion and myriad. These have been described here a number of times yet still there are folks who want to believe in miracles. 

Wrong engine for the WTC plane. Explain that, Betsy.

Plane half in and half out of WTC2 and the surface is as perfect as it had been since it was built. Explain that, Betsy.

Molten steel. Explain that, Betsy.

Vaporized steel. Explain that, Betsy.

Six percent of WTC dust is iron microspheres, the result of nanothermite. Explain that, Betsy.

WTC7 fell at free fall speed. Explain that, Betsy.

Twin towers at accelerating speed. Explain that, Betsy.

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, hot enough said:

Sensible is not your long suit, Omni. I heard thru the grapevine that you are a pilot and all this time you and Wilber have been hiding your "expertise" under something or other. You call that sensible?

Do you think this is the first time 9-11 "troothers" have showed up on this or other websites? They tend to come and go each time espousing the same nonsense and then duck and dodge the same pointed questions that undermine their claims. It gets a bit boring after the first time.  And I guess when you have been a pilot for some time you tend to have a bit of expertise about how things work on airplanes like ACARS systems, CVR's, speed restrictions, etc., etc. Items which I have seen totally misunderstood throughout the "troother" sites. 

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Do you think this is the first time 9-11 "troothers" have showed up on this or other websites? "troother" sites. 

xxxxxx

Edited April 22, 2017 by hot enough

[OftenWrong]

52 minutes ago, hot enough said:

The mistakes they made are legion and myriad. These have been described here a number of times yet still there are folks who want to believe in miracles. 

Wrong engine for the WTC plane. Explain that, Betsy.

Plane half in and half out of WTC2 and the surface is as perfect as it had been since it was built. Explain that, Betsy.

Molten steel. Explain that, Betsy.

Vaporized steel. Explain that, Betsy.

Six percent of WTC dust is iron microspheres, the result of nanothermite. Explain that, Betsy.

WTC7 fell at free fall speed. Explain that, Betsy.

Twin towers at accelerating speed. Explain that, Betsy.

Here is a very simple explanation: It's all conjecture and lies.

[hot enough]

The lunacy of the USGOCT is right off the charts. 

Quote

Flight Data Recorder Analysis - Last Second of Data - 09:37:44

We have determined based on the Flight Data Recorder information that has been analyzed thus far provided by the NTSB, that it is impossible for this aircraft to have struck down the light poles.

We have an animation of the entire flight provided by the NTSB. The animation covers the whole flight from taxi out at Dulles... to the impact at the Pentagon in real time.

The screenshot shows the very last frame of the recorded data. It stops at 9:37:44 AM EDT (Official Impact Time is 09:37:45). You will notice in the right margin the altitude of the aircraft on the middle instrument. It shows 180 feet.

 

[Wilber]

8 minutes ago, hot enough said:

The lunacy of the USGOCT is right off the charts. 

 

Google  barometric altimeter, altimeter setting and Pentagon elevation above sea level.

[hot enough]

2 hours ago, hot enough said:

Maybe the person doing the transcript misunderstood,

The person who believed she was talking to Todd Beamer says she heard another person say the words that have been attributed to Beamer. But why would the USGOCT and its backers, like the phonies who made the movie want to get anything right when the whole story was a complete sham. 

Wilber is up with another lame song and dance routine. 

Edited April 22, 2017 by hot enough

[Omni]

1 minute ago, hot enough said:

Wilber is up with another song and dance.

Maybe listen to him and you may learn some actual facts.

[hot enough]

I don't think it's a good idea at all for you guys ought to hold responsible positions as pilots. You're just Cessna pilots, right?

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I don't think it's a good idea at all for you guys ought to hold responsible positions as pilots. You're just Cessna pilots, right?

You know Cessna builds jets right?