Shame: Trump = Shameless

[bush_cheney2004]

52 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

So you are suggesting that the new Attorney General should be impeached? 

 

If he lied under oath, why not ?  

[hot enough]

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."  - President Bill Clinton (under oath in federal court)

One doesn't have to go far to find immoral or amoral behavior from any US president. Adolph would fit right in. 

[hot enough]

If he lied under oath, why not ?  

==============

These clowns take an oath to uphold and defend the constitution but they never have, not from the get go. 

[OftenWrong]

12 hours ago, hot enough said:

So patently dishonest.  So shameful. And yet no shame.

Not at all. You have condemned a whole nation of people. Even more than that, all of western civilization.
 

On 2017-02-28 at 11:04 AM, hot enough said:

I think the US, indeed, all western nations and vast swaths of their citizens, are soon going to be shamed. 

Sounds to me like you are calling for our blood.
 

 

[hot enough]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Not at all. You have condemned a whole nation of people. Even more than that, all of western civilization.
 

Sounds to me like you are calling for our blood.
 

 

Not at all, oftenwrong. Yet two more of the oh so common illogical conclusions that are rife here.

[bush_cheney2004]

Economics trumps Virtue.   Shame trumps nothing.

[August1991]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Shame is a social construct...like race.   Shameful.....

No, shame is simply an English noun -- of German origin.

Shameful? Now, it is an adjective, of German origin.

Edited March 3, 2017 by August1991

[August1991]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

If he lied under oath, why not ?  

This thread is not about a 5th amendment, individual rights; it's about shame - and embarrassment. 

[bush_cheney2004]

56 minutes ago, August1991 said:

This thread is not about a 5th amendment, individual rights; it's about shame - and embarrassment. 

 

Shame and embarrassment ?    Christian concepts ?   What's next...confession ?

[August1991]

43 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Shame and embarrassment ?    Christian concepts ?   What's next...confession ?

Precisely.

Donald Trump, like Jimmy Carter, is Protestant.

=====

The US has had only one Catholic president: JFK.

Canada is largely a Catholic country: Joe Clark, for example, was Catholic; indeed, Ontario's first PM in 1867 was, uh, Roman - Catholic.

Mulroney, Catholic. Turner, Catholic. Martin, Catholic. Trudeau/Chrétien, of course, uh, French - Catholic.

Or how about Conservative (not "Progressive" Conservative - simply Conservative) John Thompson - Catholic.  

Edited March 3, 2017 by August1991

[August1991]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Shame and embarrassment ?    Christian concepts ?   What's next...confession ?

First (only) time Catholic President - JFK? First Black President - Obama?

In Canada, we elected our first federal minority PM in 1896!

=====

George Carlin - a classic Catholic. (B-C, an introduction to the CBC. Now, imagine the R-C.... )

I have always thought that Carlin was a bare imitation of Quebec humour. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, August1991 said:

First (only) time Catholic President - JFK? First Black President - Obama?

In Canada, we elected our first federal minority PM in 1896!

 

Abraham Lincoln - Deist (1861)

[August1991]

Abraham Lincoln?

I suggest Yvon Deschamps. George Carlin (before George Carlin):

" ...le vrai Québécois sait ce qu'il veut. Pis, qu'est-ce qu'il veut?  C'est un Québec indépendant, dans un Canada fort!"

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎21 at 7:08 PM, Wilber said:

No, intentionally lying and not caring even when people point out the lie, isn't being politically incorrect, it is just lying, and shameless.

The term "intentionally lying" would necessarily mean the person doing the lying knows he is lying. This forum shows you plenty of people say things that they believe arfe true but can't prove as true because they are subjective opinions. Some people say things based on unintentional mistake of fact or misunderstanding of fact or they have an alternative perception of the facts.

Your above sentence makes a comment that assumes one can prove they can show the state of the mind of the person they are calling a liar and go on to prove he or she deliberately says something they know is not true and so you can then go on to call them shameless.

Shameless is a name. Its a judgemental name. Its necessarily subjective and dependent on the name caller proving the person they use this name for intentionally lied.

Its also not necessarily accurate because intentional liars don't feel shame or feel shameless-you can only feel shameless if you fist felt shame, if you never felt shame, you could be oblivious, uncaring, unfeeling, etc., but not shameless.

To be loveless you would first have to know what love is to know what being without it isn't. If you have never known love, you wouldn't be loveless, you would be lonely, perhaps, but not loveless.

Shame is a word we use to project on people what we want them to feel. In the context it is used, we want the person to feel shame, i.e., remorse, the realization that what they said, did or believed in was not only wrong, but they should feel bad about themselves for having been wrong. Its a wish we prject onto the person we want to say they should not feel good about themselves but feel bad about themselves.

This is why the  expressions "its a shame" and "its too bad" mean one and the same  in common vernacular. We project a negative determination on a decision, act statement, belief (inanimate projection) or in most cases not just the words themselves or the events themselves (inanimate) but the actual people or person who carried out the deed we now want them to feel shame for.

Shame is the feeling we want people to feel. The act of feeling the shame is called being ashamed.

Its necessarily as a result of someone rendering a judgement and trying to pass on a finding of disapproval they want placed on the person they judge wrong.

Therefore by its very inherent nature its logical. When people are right or wrong, they should not feel bad or good about themselves if the mistake was well intended or done with no malice. Malice or negative intent is really the thing we want to single out and punish.

However it is illogical to wish a negative on someone who is negative. It won't undo the negative. If we were logical we would not want people to feel ashamed of being wrong, just capable of being able to recognize the error and correct it.

Humans are not logical. We have this desire to wish ill on people and punish them when they are wrong. Its what we do. Its a primal instinct of you bite me I bite you.

If we were logical and we find out someone is wrong, wanting them to feel bad about themselves is irrelevant to the actual dispute-feeling bad about that person will not contribute to their realizing they were wrong, it may only reinforce illogical negative feelings that caused them to distort the truth in the first place.

Terms like shame, truth, remorse, embarrassment, guilt, are very much vestiges left over from the days when formal religions framed out thinking processes and deemed us shameful if we did not follow the rules given to us by our religion.

Shame is an emotion from a moral judgement.

Have you no shame? That is often used instead of saying, " Do you feel nothing when you...."

Trump is a politician. Inherently politicians are narcissistic and believe their vision is the vision everyone else should have. A narcissist fails to understand the difference between his thoughts and the thought of others and things they must be the same and if others don't think the same way, they must be wrong.

Politicians don't feel shame per se, it contradicts the state of mind they enter into to be a politician. Their state of mind to be a politician already deems their vision the correct one they must sell to others. Politicians like Trump see themselves as prophets, leaders, messiahs, so they don't feel shame but they do feels scorn from others, hatred or disapproval from others. I suppose its possible for a politician to be ashamed of themselves for having done something but probably not and if they say they are shamed, they are not ashamed, they just want you to think they are so you will still vote for them.

Politicians like any pathological liar believe their vision is truth and reality otherwise they get out of politics.

Anyone who preaches feels no shame.

Except me. All what I have said is shameful.

[Wilber]

7 hours ago, Rue said:

The term "intentionally lying" would necessarily mean the person doing the lying knows he is lying. This forum shows you plenty of people say things that they believe arfe true but can't prove as true because they are subjective opinions. Some people say things based on unintentional mistake of fact or misunderstanding of fact or they have an alternative perception of the facts.

Your above sentence makes a comment that assumes one can prove they can show the state of the mind of the person they are calling a liar and go on to prove he or she deliberately says something they know is not true and so you can then go on to call them shameless.

Well, in that case you could substitute idiot for shameless and perhaps throw in irresponsible as well. I don't really care what their state of mind is, you have every right to expect people in these positions  to know that the are talking about before they spout off.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Rue said:

The term "intentionally lying" would necessarily mean the person doing the lying knows he is lying. This forum shows you plenty of people say things that they believe arfe true but can't prove as true because they are subjective opinions.

The best example of this is in threads on Vincent Li, especially the ones you post in.