Flawed Immigration Process

[betsy]

Well......there's a silver lining. 

At the joint press conference of Trump and Trudeau, our PM talked about improving our immigration system.  There'll be immense pressure for Trudeau to follow through. 

 

"We cannot let the wrong people in.  And I will not allow that to happen during this administration.  And people want that.  That's their attitude too. And we're getting praises for our stance....and it's the common sense stance. 

We wont' stand for it.  We won't put up with it.  We won't let it happen."

 

 

The big onus will be on Canada to ensure no "undesirables"  manage to sneak in to the USA from Canada.

 

Am I over-reaching if I imagine it puts a clamp on Trudeau's tweet? 

 

 

Am I over-reacting if I look to Trump to forcefully hammer common sense into our PM's head?

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

There's another factor rearing its head that'll apply more pressure for improved immigration/refugee process.

 

  This was brought up on CTV news.  Looks like we're on our way to populism.

 

Quote

 

BREAKING: Canada at populism, trust crisis tipping point

PR NewswireFebruary 14, 2017

 

For the first time since Edelman started tracking the general population, Canada finds itself among countries who distrust their institutions. Trust in business, media and government is in trouble.

"Canada is not immune from the impact of the global trust crisis. In fact, we're seeing similar trend lines as our neighbors in the United States," says Lisa Kimmel, President and CEO, Edelman Canada. "Canadians are telling us they are worried about their futures and don't trust our institutions to fix their concerns."

Importantly, the 2017 Edelman Trust Barometer reveals emerging concern and fears among Canadians in key areas that commonly underpin populist outcomes. One in two people surveyed agree with the statement that the influx of people from other countries is damaging Canada's economy and national culture.

80% of people think the elites who run institutions are out of touch with regular people.

And, 61% of people do not have confidence that Canada's current leaders will be able to successfully solve Canada's challenges.

48% also agreed that globalization is taking us in the wrong direction.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/breaking-canada-populism-trust-crisis-100000340.html;_ylt=A0LEVr63W6NYG.YArmcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyamNxcHFpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjM0NDhfMQRzZWMDc2M-

 

 

Kellie Letch's got her finger on the pulse.  Will we see some other Conservative leaders changing their policy?

Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy

[H10]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

For someone who commended Trump for putting a blanket denial on Muslims from coming into the US I see you are showing your true colours again.

The contributor who suggested Israel has advanced interviewing techniques assumes this is true because they have to and its true but those techniques are the same techniques used by the British, French, EU nations, etc. All of the EU now is on terror alert on its borders.

It is absolutely inexcusable in this day and age of terrorism not to have face to face interviews. The fact you had to ask why they are effective shows you don't understand what non verbal language is and instead of asking people such questions, you need to educate yourself. To ask why is a face to face effective really shows you not only do not want to know why it is, but can't be bothered to read up on the subject but instead to be smug about it.

Next you want to engage in antiquated smeers of apartheid, remember that when you come on this form demanding blacks be segregated from whites. You are something else. You argue blacks need to be in all black schools and you accuse Israel of being apartheid? Lol.

 

Without intelligence, face to face interviews are not effective.  Canada does not have the intelligence to identify suspect terrorist anyways.  Israel has a network of spies over 10,000 people and another 100,000 working in intelligence just gathering information on arabs.  We don't have that in India or Syria or Pakistan.  It is you who demanded jew people be segregated from arabs and from whites and other races, why don't the israelis integrate with the arabs?  Israel is an apartheid state.

[Argus]

47 minutes ago, betsy said:

One in two people surveyed agree with the statement that the influx of people from other countries is damaging Canada's economy and national culture.

80% of people think the elites who run institutions are out of touch with regular people.

And, 61% of people do not have confidence that Canada's current leaders will be able to successfully solve Canada's challenges.

Kellie Letch's got her finger on the pulse.  Will we see some other Conservative leaders changing their policy?

Not that I've seen. So far they're mostly falling all over themselves, including O'Leary, to show how inclusive they are and how much they embrace wide open immigration and oppose any screening whatsoever other than for criminal and terrorist history. The only one who hasn't said one way or another is Scheer.

[betsy]

43 minutes ago, hernanday said:

Without intelligence, face to face interviews are not effective. 

Who are you to say? 

If it's effectively used on spousal applicants - it can be used for others.

 

 

I'm willing to bet that Canada will go along with USA's method of extreme screening and vetting.  We'll be applying the same method that the USA will conduct.  Because, we have to.

Mark my words.

Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy

[?Impact]

42 minutes ago, betsy said:

I'm willing to bet that Canada will go along with USA's method of extreme screening and vetting.

The fantasy method? Repeating 'extreme screening and vetting' day in and day out demonstrates that Trump has nothing in his kitbag but rhetoric.

[betsy]

Just now, ?Impact said:

The fantasy method? Repeating 'extreme screening and vetting' day in and day out demonstrates that Trump has nothing in his kitbag but rhetoric.

Whatever method it is....you bet we'll be dancing to it.

[cannuck]

On 2/11/2017 at 6:17 PM, betsy said:

 

Also, our own indigenous people are living in conditions similar, or even worse than some third world countries. 

Obviously, you have spent very little if any time dealing with reserves and aboriginals.  We spend far more than enough to give each and every person with a treaty number a very comfortable middle class lifestyle.  Unfortunately, much of that money dissappears into the hands of the "Indian industry", i.e. the bureaucrats, consultants, etc. who hand what is left over to band and council to be squandered with little regard for those for whom it was intended.

I have so many times listened to people gripe about the condition of housing, public facilities, poor water, etc. in an environment of 90%+  unemployment.  All that is needed is to use the endless funding that is doled out and get off one's rear end and fix one's own problems.  It isn't that hard to figure out.

Of course, I have a solution:   let's send all of these new immigrants to live on reserves!   They can do what we need - set an example of how to work for things and appreciate the incredible good fortune of living in Canada.

[Argus]

I think Herb Grubel - an immigrant himself - put it as succinctly as possible in this column in which he puts the cost to Canada of our present immigration system at $30 billion per year.

The most important difference between modern Canada and when previous waves of immigrants entered this country is the existence of the welfare state. In the absence of its universal social benefits in the past, only healthy immigrants with strong work ethics, drive and skills came to Canada. Under present conditions, potentially many immigrants would not possess these qualities and impose heavy fiscal burdens on our welfare programs and ultimately bankrupt them. It is for this reason that Milton Friedman, one of the world’s most ardent advocates for human and economic freedom concluded that, “The welfare state and free immigration are incompatible.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/herbert-grubel-canada-should-not-open-its-doors-to-the-world

Edited February 15, 2017 by Argus

[betsy]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Obviously, you have spent very little if any time dealing with reserves and aboriginals.  We spend far more than enough to give each and every person with a treaty number a very comfortable middle class lifestyle.  Unfortunately, much of that money dissappears into the hands of the "Indian industry", i.e. the bureaucrats, consultants, etc. who hand what is left over to band and council to be squandered with little regard for those for whom it was intended.

I have so many times listened to people gripe about the condition of housing, public facilities, poor water, etc. in an environment of 90%+  unemployment.  All that is needed is to use the endless funding that is doled out and get off one's rear end and fix one's own problems.  It isn't that hard to figure out.

Of course, I have a solution:   let's send all of these new immigrants to live on reserves!   They can do what we need - set an example of how to work for things and appreciate the incredible good fortune of living in Canada.

 

You don't need to lecture me about it!  That's not the point.

Whatever the problem is, the fact still remains that our indigenous people are living in such worse conditions!

 

The government better fix it!  If it's the bureaucrats, or the chiefs, or whatever it is the cause problems - then they better do something about it! 

 

They have no business bringing in more people from outside if they can't even rectify the problems that has plague our own people for decades! 

 

My goodness! All the more that Canadians should protest about open borders when we have these problems that has gone on for so long, and our incompetent government can't even do anything about it!  And here is Trudeau, importing more people from cultures so contrary to our own - yet he can't fix the problems of the indigenous people whose culture we should've understood by now!

 

 

Quote

All that is needed is to use the endless funding that is doled out and get off one's rear end and fix one's own problems.  It isn't that hard to figure out.

Then they ought to do it!  Fix it!

  Don't add any more to our problems!  That's the point, isn't it?  Adding more to our problems!

Edited February 15, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

Furthermore, why would Canada want to deplete the population of another nation?  How can that nation recover at all,  if all its educated people have all gone to Canada?

Edited February 15, 2017 by betsy

[Argus]

Searched for and found another article by Grubel which also clearly shows why immigration continues to expand.

These groups benefiting from mass immigration lobby the government effectively, while the general public is unorganized and does not. To the contrary, the public is lobbied by the government, which issues a constant flow of propaganda about the alleged economic and social benefits from mass immigration and suppresses the distribution of fact-based accounts of the negative effects.

The government also issues highly misleading information about the 172,500 “economic migrants” who will be selected in 2017 for their likely economic success. In fact, assuming an average family size of four, only 43,125 of them will be truly economic immigrants, the rest will be their spouses and children. Many will later be joined by their parents and grandparents, who will number 20,000 in 2017 and contribute very little to the economy.

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/opinion-why-did-canada-increase-immigration-targets

[H10]

22 hours ago, betsy said:

Who are you to say? 

If it's effectively used on spousal applicants - it can be used for others.

No, because we have intelligence and the ability to interview the other side, how are you going to interview a source in a city being bombed in syria?

22 hours ago, betsy said:

I'm willing to bet that Canada will go along with USA's method of extreme screening and vetting.  We'll be applying the same method that the USA will conduct.  Because, we have to.

Mark my words.

We won't do it because we have to, we do it because of fear mongers who want to give up all freedom and liberty and want us to be a northern version of the police state to the south.

[Rue]

23 hours ago, hernanday said:

Without intelligence, face to face interviews are not effective.  Canada does not have the intelligence to identify suspect terrorist anyways.  Israel has a network of spies over 10,000 people and another 100,000 working in intelligence just gathering information on arabs.  We don't have that in India or Syria or Pakistan.  It is you who demanded jew people be segregated from arabs and from whites and other races, why don't the israelis integrate with the arabs?  Israel is an apartheid state.

You stated " without intelligence, face to face interviews are not effective". You make that statement with zero basis. Its absolutely illogical for many reasons. First, any face to face interview is inherently an intelligence gathering exercise that will serve as the basis for intelligence. Intelligence without face to face interviews is uncorroborated and can not be tested for veracity and accuracy. Interviews allow this testing.  Interviews do not need intelligence to be effective. I spent 20 years interviewing individuals to try determine if they were sex criminals with NO evidence. How do you think we gathered it?  Everything starts with the face to face and non verbal language is how we communicate. 90% of what we say is done non verbally. Its what people DO NOT say, not what they say we listen for. So you are just out and out wrong and need to read up on what interviewing is before you make statements based on false uninformed decisions. Its there on the internet. Nothing's stopping you.

Next you made the sweeping statement, " Canada does not have the intelligence to identify suspect terrorists anyways." Of course we do. When a potential immigrant or refugee is being interviewed they are being vetted not just to see if they are a terrorist but what other issues they may be bringing with them, i.e., medical illnesses, psychiatric illnesses, problem relatives, lack of skills, red flags that they may be a fugitive evading an arrest, a kidnapper, they may be a war criminal, an illegal drug smuggler, a people smuggler, a money launderer. on and on. So your comment is not only illogical but it misses the point. Screening at borders detects many things not just terrorists. As for your comment in fact Canada is in a intelligence network called the Five Eyes. It shares intelligence on terrorists with Australia, New Zealand, Britain, The United States and France. It also has special arrangements with NATO countries, Israel, Egypt,  and Interpol as well as Japan, South Korea, India. In fact you have no clue as to the network of intelligence Canada engages in and shares its information with. Intelligence can be exchanged  through CSIS, the military's branches of operation (airforce, navy, army, coast guard), RCMP, provincial and local police forces, and municipal, provincial and federal level government agencies. So don't pretend there is no intelligence. That's absurd. The fact you don't get told who does what does not mean it doesn't exist. More to the point and you clearly don't get it, some people are not terrorist but are vulnerable or prone to getting recruited into terrorist cells or criminal cells or are  victims of crimes and so the time to gather info on them is before they become criminal or terrorist. Zip over your head. It is unfortunate  but many female refugees have been raped or are being raped and child molestation rates are high. This has to be screened for.

Next you make the ridiculous statement there are 10,000 Israeli spies in some network and another 100,00 working in intelligence "just gathering info on arabs". Of course like your other statements you provide no references. You spew out such comments with zero basis. You pose fabricated allegations as if they are fact. In fact you have no clue how many people who are in fact Israeli citizens are intelligence operatives let alone what information they gather. What makes your comments even more idiotic is that when people gather intelligence information, no they don't simply focus on "arabs". They look at anyone and everyone.

Next you stated. " WE don't  have that in India or Syria or Pakistan". What you are a citizen of India, Syria and Pakistan all at once? What you claim to  be an expert on the intelligence operations of all three nations now as well as Israel? That's something else considering you have been unable to provide one reference for any of your information. I thought you worked intelligence for the Pacific Island nation of Tonga. You had me fooled. Next, do you really want to come on this forum and make a blanket sweeping statement that India and Pakistan do not have intelligence gathering operations and the same for Syria? Get  real.  What the hell do you thinkt he Mukhbarat is in Syria? You have any idea how they operate? Clearly not.  Pakistan and India have complex multi-layered policem government and military intelligence operations.

Finally let me address this bizarre comment you made to me:"

It is you who demanded jew people be segregated from arabs and from whites and other races, why don't the israelis integrate with the arabs? "

To start with, let's be crystal clear. You have come on this forum numerous times advocating on behalf of "blacks" and "African-Canadians" that they be removed from white schools and placed in their own white free schools. Your comments are record on this forum. All anyone has to do is plug in your name and they come up. I on the other hand  have never advocated at any time on this forum or anywhere, that I believe in segregation in schools based on ethnicity as you do. Put up or shut up. Find one post from me where I advocated this. You assume because I believe Jews have a right to a Jewish state no differently than an England has an Anglican state or the Vatican is a Catholic state or Thailand is a Bhuddist state or India is a Hindu state or all the Arab League nations are in fact Muslim states, that this means I believe in segregation.

You assume Jews are segregated from "Arabs" in Israel. This is a false assumption. First of all Many Israelis are Arabs, i.e, they are  Tsfardic or Mitzrahi Jews meaning they come from Arab countries or their parents or grandparents came from Arab countries and they speak Arabic. In fact 900,000 Arab Jews were forcded out of the Arab word with 700,000 forced to flee to Israel as retaliation for Israel becoming a Jewish state. Many Jews today are descended from those 700,000. Even we Ashkanazi Jews which I am one have been shown through blood tests to be genetically linked to people of the Arabian peninsula. Arabs are semites. Technically Jews and Muslims are semite but Christians of the Middle East can be just as Arab as Jews or Muslims. You clearly have no idea what an Arab is. Arab is the common word used to refer to people of or from the vicinity of the Arabian peninsula no more no less. Arabs are people of many religions. Gamel Nasser reconstituted the word Arab to mean people of the Arab League of Nations and whose common language was Arabic but were not Jews. Before that Arab referred to the Beduins and people who had descended from them. Egyptians never called themselves Arabs.Sunni Muslims in the Middle East may or may not identify themselves as Arabs, Christians do not although some in Israel or the West Bank or in Jordan might. Shiites do not The so called Arab League nations use the word Arab in the Nasser pan Arab Nationalist description not to say they are descendants of the Beduins. Berbers and Kurds and Druze are as "Arab" as Beduins, so are  Bahaiis, Jews,Christians, certain  Zoroastrians, they just don't call themselves Arabs.

Next you have no clue what goes on in Israel. No "Arab" in Israel, i.e., no Israeli citizen who is not Jewish, i.e., is Christian, Muslim, Bahaii is segregated from Jews. That is an out and out lie based on your ignorance of what you think Zionism means.

In fact the only apartheid in the Middle East is practiced in all the Arab League nations following Sharia law precisely because Sharia law is not separated from Muslim religion and is enforced by these Muslim states. Sharia law defines non Muslims as dhimmi. Dhimmi can not own land, and are not considered equal in law to Muslims and therefore the state institutionalizes the inequality through forcing them to live in assigned ghettos and agree to conform to laws that deem them inferior. You have no clue what dhimmitude is, how Sharia law defines non Muslims and why Muslim countries define non Muslims as infidel. Your selective moral outrage speaks for itself. You are silent as to apartheid enforced by Muslim nations through Sharia law. You are silent as to how it defines non Muslims as inferior. You are silent as to how as we speak black Muslims from African nations such as Senegal, or how Muslims from Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Philippines, Indonesia, Chad, Dahomey, Niger, Malawi, Nigeria, Sudan are sent to Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and used as slave labour. Slavery based on skin shade is alive and well in the Muslim world with a class system of Muslims defined on their physical and skin features and you Sir ignore it.

You then spew made up facts about Israel. Non Jewish Israelis precisely because of the concepts of Zionism and state laws have all the rights of Jewish Israelis. They have the very rights no Jew or non Muslim  has in an Arab state. Muslim Israelis are treated in the same hospitals, have their land rights and human rights enforced by the Israeli Supreme Court, elect members to the Knesset, engage in stating and writing whatever they want on t.v. or in the press. In fact the discrimination non Jewish Israelis undergo in Israel is the exact same thing as any Israeli Jew. If they don't serve in the armed forces which is their right, they don' get security clearance to work certain jobs. Its not based on their religion, but their lack of military identification.In fact some of the Israeli Defence Force's bravest soldiers have been Arabs, i.e., Muslims, Druze. The Bahaiis have their headquarters in Tel Aviv.

To show just how false your comments are, Israel recognizes each and every land title of Christian churches in Israel and this is why they pay rent to these churches for government buildings built on Christian lands in Jerusalem The Palestinian Authority and Hamas do not recognize any right of any non Muslim to land title anywhere in the Middle East. Israel does. The Arab League of Nations refuses citizenships to Jews. Israel allows non Jews to become citizens of Israel. Israel fast tracks citizenship for Jews to become Israeli no different than 145 other countries do with designated ethnic groups and examples include, Japan, China, Taiwan South Korea, Belgium, Ireland, Germany, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuaania, Poland, Finland, Sweden, I taly, Slovakian Republic, Ukraine, to name just a few countries.

Palestinians from the West Bank who wish to marry Israelis of any religion will be stopped at this point for security reasons. It certainly is a problem with them. Because the standard of life for Israeli Arabs is so much better than Arabs on the West Bank, if Israel permitted Palestinian Arabs to marry Israeli Arabs within months or years, the majority of Israel would stop being Jewish. That is true. But that is no different than Arab countries not allowing non Muslims to marry and become citizens unless they become Muslim first.

What you are also ignorant of is that Muslim Israelis and Jewish Israelis can opt out of Israeli religious and family laws. As a reform Jew I would also opt out of Jewish law if I was an Israeli citizen and follow Israeli state laws on family  law because I am a progressice and believe the laws should be non denominational and not refer to religion and Israel law does that. No such choice exists for non Muslims in Muslim states.

Israeli laws also prevail and are enforced on all Israelis of any religion when it comes to treating gays or women as equals unlike in the Arab world.

On the West Bank, Jews and Palestinians live segregated from one another as do ultra-orothodox Jews because of terrorism. There are 200,000 ultra orthodox Jews who do not recognize the right of Israel to b e a Jewish nation and who state until the Messiah returns the creation of an Israeli state is an abomination against God. They are anti Zionist and wish nothing to do with 200,000 Jewish settlers on the West Bank who are not religious at all. There are another 200,000 Jews with varying degrees of strong political beliefs that the West Bank is as much the land of Jews as any Muslim.

Hamas and the Palestinian Authority refer to the anti Israel ultra-orthodox Jews who have lived on the West Bank since Judaism began as infidel who must be expelled or killed when the Palestinians take back Jordan and Israel. The position of the PA and Hamas remains the creation of a Muslim sharia law state in all of Jordan, the West Bank, Israel and the Gaza and their Charters state the solution to deal with Jews is to wipe them all out. The charters envision a world war in which Jews and Christians from the entire planet are either killed or converted to Islam and the Palestinian state will be step one before joining with other Arab states to take over the world and have a one world government, a one world Muslim government run by a Muslim clergy council of caliphs. Interestingly that ultimate genocide of non believers and turning the world into a Muslim state, you of course ignore.

 So do me a favour don't tell me what I believe. I believe Palestinians and Israelis, Jews, Muslims and Christians all have equal rights. I believe in a two state solution. I believe if Palestinians disarmed and denounced terrorism, Israel would take down its wall and pull out the Jews from the West Bank as part of a comprehensive peace.

What I know is Muslims and Jews in Israel interact every day. I lived there. The majority deal with each other and are not allowed to liv epeacefully side by side because they have no control over Hamas and the PA.I  worked with both. You have not.

You do not understand either. Both sides have lived and worked together. Unlike you they do no consider each other inferior or superior to one another. They are desert people. It call comes down to how much water does one have and can they share it. It all comes down to water.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

18 hours ago, betsy said:

Furthermore, why would Canada want to deplete the population of another nation?  How can that nation recover at all,  if all its educated people have all gone to Canada?

Brain drain is a very interesting topic no one addresses.

It would make a good new thread. You are dead on. If we drain third and fourth world countries of the little intelligentsia they have we condemn them to never I mproving and remaining third and fourth world.

Here's a discussion of it when looking at health professionals:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1275994/

.

 

[Rue]

30 minutes ago, hernanday said:

No, because we have intelligence and the ability to interview the other side, how are you going to interview a source in a city being bombed in syria?

We won't do it because we have to, we do it because of fear mongers who want to give up all freedom and liberty and want us to be a northern version of the police state to the south.

O.k. so now suddenly we do have intelligence. Guess you changed your mind.

You asked, " how are you going to interview a source in a city being bombed in Syria?"

Wow. O.k. to start with no one interviews anyone in a danger zone. Your assumption that interviews can only be done when one is being bombed is past ridiculous.

When people are being interviewed we are looking for information such as:

1-age, religion, family history

2-medical history, current and past medical issues

3-size of family

4-information as to whether,father, brother, uncle is being violent or sexually molesting their own

family members or others

5-possible signs of criminal or extremist political connections

6-possible transferable work skills

7-language ability.

1-7 have nothing to do with the US.

Again this notion you have that we only need to vet immigrants or refugees because of Trump is one of your bizarre assumptions

which get stranger in each response.

Regards, David Bowie (Ziggy Stardust)

 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, hernanday said:

No, because we have intelligence and the ability to interview the other side, how are you going to interview a source in a city being bombed in syria?

We won't do it because we have to, we do it because of fear mongers who want to give up all freedom and liberty and want us to be a northern version of the police state to the south.

We're talking IMMIGRATION!  Immigrants! 

[betsy]

1 hour ago, hernanday said:

 

We won't do it because we have to, we do it because of fear mongers who want to give up all freedom and liberty and want us to be a northern version of the police state to the south.

 

Blah-blah-blah. Your pointless bravado is irrelevant. 

 

The only fear that pressures our PM to comply, is the fear of getting booted out of office for nuking our economy - especially when he's running up tons of bills over his senseless spending spree!   

The people are already saying he has to put the interest of Canada first!  Everybody's talking about our economy! 

So yes, HE HAS TO!

Edited February 15, 2017 by betsy

[H10]

6 hours ago, Rue said:

You stated " without intelligence, face to face interviews are not effective". You make that statement with zero basis. Its absolutely illogical for many reasons. First, any face to face interview is inherently an intelligence gathering exercise that will serve as the basis for intelligence. Intelligence without face to face interviews is uncorroborated and can not be tested for veracity and accuracy. Interviews allow this testing.  Interviews do not need intelligence to be effective. I spent 20 years interviewing individuals to try determine if they were sex criminals with NO evidence. How do you think we gathered it?  Everything starts with the face to face and non verbal language is how we communicate. 90% of what we say is done non verbally. Its what people DO NOT say, not what they say we listen for. So you are just out and out wrong and need to read up on what interviewing is before you make statements based on false uninformed decisions. Its there on the internet. Nothing's stopping you.

Next you made the sweeping statement, " Canada does not have the intelligence to identify suspect terrorists anyways." Of course we do. When a potential immigrant or refugee is being interviewed they are being vetted not just to see if they are a terrorist but what other issues they may be bringing with them, i.e., medical illnesses, psychiatric illnesses, problem relatives, lack of skills, red flags that they may be a fugitive evading an arrest, a kidnapper, they may be a war criminal, an illegal drug smuggler, a people smuggler, a money launderer. on and on. So your comment is not only illogical but it misses the point. Screening at borders detects many things not just terrorists. As for your comment in fact Canada is in a intelligence network called the Five Eyes. It shares intelligence on terrorists with Australia, New Zealand, Britain, The United States and France. It also has special arrangements with NATO countries, Israel, Egypt,  and Interpol as well as Japan, South Korea, India. In fact you have no clue as to the network of intelligence Canada engages in and shares its information with. Intelligence can be exchanged  through CSIS, the military's branches of operation (airforce, navy, army, coast guard), RCMP, provincial and local police forces, and municipal, provincial and federal level government agencies. So don't pretend there is no intelligence. That's absurd. The fact you don't get told who does what does not mean it doesn't exist. More to the point and you clearly don't get it, some people are not terrorist but are vulnerable or prone to getting recruited into terrorist cells or criminal cells or are  victims of crimes and so the time to gather info on them is before they become criminal or terrorist. Zip over your head. It is unfortunate  but many female refugees have been raped or are being raped and child molestation rates are high. This has to be screened for.

Next you make the ridiculous statement there are 10,000 Israeli spies in some network and another 100,00 working in intelligence "just gathering info on arabs". Of course like your other statements you provide no references. You spew out such comments with zero basis. You pose fabricated allegations as if they are fact. In fact you have no clue how many people who are in fact Israeli citizens are intelligence operatives let alone what information they gather. What makes your comments even more idiotic is that when people gather intelligence information, no they don't simply focus on "arabs". They look at anyone and everyone.

Next you stated. " WE don't  have that in India or Syria or Pakistan". What you are a citizen of India, Syria and Pakistan all at once? What you claim to  be an expert on the intelligence operations of all three nations now as well as Israel? That's something else considering you have been unable to provide one reference for any of your information. I thought you worked intelligence for the Pacific Island nation of Tonga. You had me fooled. Next, do you really want to come on this forum and make a blanket sweeping statement that India and Pakistan do not have intelligence gathering operations and the same for Syria? Get  real.  What the hell do you thinkt he Mukhbarat is in Syria? You have any idea how they operate? Clearly not.  Pakistan and India have complex multi-layered policem government and military intelligence operations.

Finally let me address this bizarre comment you made to me:"

It is you who demanded jew people be segregated from arabs and from whites and other races, why don't the israelis integrate with the arabs? "

To start with, let's be crystal clear. You have come on this forum numerous times advocating on behalf of "blacks" and "African-Canadians" that they be removed from white schools and placed in their own white free schools. Your comments are record on this forum. All anyone has to do is plug in your name and they come up. I on the other hand  have never advocated at any time on this forum or anywhere, that I believe in segregation in schools based on ethnicity as you do. Put up or shut up. Find one post from me where I advocated this. You assume because I believe Jews have a right to a Jewish state no differently than an England has an Anglican state or the Vatican is a Catholic state or Thailand is a Bhuddist state or India is a Hindu state or all the Arab League nations are in fact Muslim states, that this means I believe in segregation.

You assume Jews are segregated from "Arabs" in Israel. This is a false assumption. First of all Many Israelis are Arabs, i.e, they are  Tsfardic or Mitzrahi Jews meaning they come from Arab countries or their parents or grandparents came from Arab countries and they speak Arabic. In fact 900,000 Arab Jews were forcded out of the Arab word with 700,000 forced to flee to Israel as retaliation for Israel becoming a Jewish state. Many Jews today are descended from those 700,000. Even we Ashkanazi Jews which I am one have been shown through blood tests to be genetically linked to people of the Arabian peninsula. Arabs are semites. Technically Jews and Muslims are semite but Christians of the Middle East can be just as Arab as Jews or Muslims. You clearly have no idea what an Arab is. Arab is the common word used to refer to people of or from the vicinity of the Arabian peninsula no more no less. Arabs are people of many religions. Gamel Nasser reconstituted the word Arab to mean people of the Arab League of Nations and whose common language was Arabic but were not Jews. Before that Arab referred to the Beduins and people who had descended from them. Egyptians never called themselves Arabs.Sunni Muslims in the Middle East may or may not identify themselves as Arabs, Christians do not although some in Israel or the West Bank or in Jordan might. Shiites do not The so called Arab League nations use the word Arab in the Nasser pan Arab Nationalist description not to say they are descendants of the Beduins. Berbers and Kurds and Druze are as "Arab" as Beduins, so are  Bahaiis, Jews,Christians, certain  Zoroastrians, they just don't call themselves Arabs.

Next you have no clue what goes on in Israel. No "Arab" in Israel, i.e., no Israeli citizen who is not Jewish, i.e., is Christian, Muslim, Bahaii is segregated from Jews. That is an out and out lie based on your ignorance of what you think Zionism means.

In fact the only apartheid in the Middle East is practiced in all the Arab League nations following Sharia law precisely because Sharia law is not separated from Muslim religion and is enforced by these Muslim states. Sharia law defines non Muslims as dhimmi. Dhimmi can not own land, and are not considered equal in law to Muslims and therefore the state institutionalizes the inequality through forcing them to live in assigned ghettos and agree to conform to laws that deem them inferior. You have no clue what dhimmitude is, how Sharia law defines non Muslims and why Muslim countries define non Muslims as infidel. Your selective moral outrage speaks for itself. You are silent as to apartheid enforced by Muslim nations through Sharia law. You are silent as to how it defines non Muslims as inferior. You are silent as to how as we speak black Muslims from African nations such as Senegal, or how Muslims from Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Philippines, Indonesia, Chad, Dahomey, Niger, Malawi, Nigeria, Sudan are sent to Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and used as slave labour. Slavery based on skin shade is alive and well in the Muslim world with a class system of Muslims defined on their physical and skin features and you Sir ignore it.

You then spew made up facts about Israel. Non Jewish Israelis precisely because of the concepts of Zionism and state laws have all the rights of Jewish Israelis. They have the very rights no Jew or non Muslim  has in an Arab state. Muslim Israelis are treated in the same hospitals, have their land rights and human rights enforced by the Israeli Supreme Court, elect members to the Knesset, engage in stating and writing whatever they want on t.v. or in the press. In fact the discrimination non Jewish Israelis undergo in Israel is the exact same thing as any Israeli Jew. If they don't serve in the armed forces which is their right, they don' get security clearance to work certain jobs. Its not based on their religion, but their lack of military identification.In fact some of the Israeli Defence Force's bravest soldiers have been Arabs, i.e., Muslims, Druze. The Bahaiis have their headquarters in Tel Aviv.

To show just how false your comments are, Israel recognizes each and every land title of Christian churches in Israel and this is why they pay rent to these churches for government buildings built on Christian lands in Jerusalem The Palestinian Authority and Hamas do not recognize any right of any non Muslim to land title anywhere in the Middle East. Israel does. The Arab League of Nations refuses citizenships to Jews. Israel allows non Jews to become citizens of Israel. Israel fast tracks citizenship for Jews to become Israeli no different than 145 other countries do with designated ethnic groups and examples include, Japan, China, Taiwan South Korea, Belgium, Ireland, Germany, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuaania, Poland, Finland, Sweden, I taly, Slovakian Republic, Ukraine, to name just a few countries.

Palestinians from the West Bank who wish to marry Israelis of any religion will be stopped at this point for security reasons. It certainly is a problem with them. Because the standard of life for Israeli Arabs is so much better than Arabs on the West Bank, if Israel permitted Palestinian Arabs to marry Israeli Arabs within months or years, the majority of Israel would stop being Jewish. That is true. But that is no different than Arab countries not allowing non Muslims to marry and become citizens unless they become Muslim first.

What you are also ignorant of is that Muslim Israelis and Jewish Israelis can opt out of Israeli religious and family laws. As a reform Jew I would also opt out of Jewish law if I was an Israeli citizen and follow Israeli state laws on family  law because I am a progressice and believe the laws should be non denominational and not refer to religion and Israel law does that. No such choice exists for non Muslims in Muslim states.

Israeli laws also prevail and are enforced on all Israelis of any religion when it comes to treating gays or women as equals unlike in the Arab world.

On the West Bank, Jews and Palestinians live segregated from one another as do ultra-orothodox Jews because of terrorism. There are 200,000 ultra orthodox Jews who do not recognize the right of Israel to b e a Jewish nation and who state until the Messiah returns the creation of an Israeli state is an abomination against God. They are anti Zionist and wish nothing to do with 200,000 Jewish settlers on the West Bank who are not religious at all. There are another 200,000 Jews with varying degrees of strong political beliefs that the West Bank is as much the land of Jews as any Muslim.

Hamas and the Palestinian Authority refer to the anti Israel ultra-orthodox Jews who have lived on the West Bank since Judaism began as infidel who must be expelled or killed when the Palestinians take back Jordan and Israel. The position of the PA and Hamas remains the creation of a Muslim sharia law state in all of Jordan, the West Bank, Israel and the Gaza and their Charters state the solution to deal with Jews is to wipe them all out. The charters envision a world war in which Jews and Christians from the entire planet are either killed or converted to Islam and the Palestinian state will be step one before joining with other Arab states to take over the world and have a one world government, a one world Muslim government run by a Muslim clergy council of caliphs. Interestingly that ultimate genocide of non believers and turning the world into a Muslim state, you of course ignore.

 So do me a favour don't tell me what I believe. I believe Palestinians and Israelis, Jews, Muslims and Christians all have equal rights. I believe in a two state solution. I believe if Palestinians disarmed and denounced terrorism, Israel would take down its wall and pull out the Jews from the West Bank as part of a comprehensive peace.

What I know is Muslims and Jews in Israel interact every day. I lived there. The majority deal with each other and are not allowed to liv epeacefully side by side because they have no control over Hamas and the PA.I  worked with both. You have not.

You do not understand either. Both sides have lived and worked together. Unlike you they do no consider each other inferior or superior to one another. They are desert people. It call comes down to how much water does one have and can they share it. It all comes down to water.

 

 

Israeli apartheid is wrong, when will you condemn the shame that is Israeli apartheid., why won't you condemn israeli apartheid?  99% of egyptians today classify themselves as Arabs.  Non verbal language is ineffective because different people and cultures communicate different things by the same behaviours.  So lack of eye contact in one culture can be perceived as dishonesty, but in some cultures people are told to avoid eye contact with authority, and others are taught to look you in the eye and lie and then different people have different abilities and tendencies.

 

You claimed jews are mixed with arab blood, but arabs nor jews are not a race, arabs are an ethnicity and a culture, jew is a religion.

 

And if the in person interview is valuable because 90% of the communication is what they don't say, then you don't need the in person interview because its what they don't communicate that matters, not what they do.

[H10]

5 hours ago, Rue said:

O.k. so now suddenly we do have intelligence. Guess you changed your mind.

You asked, " how are you going to interview a source in a city being bombed in Syria?"

Wow. O.k. to start with no one interviews anyone in a danger zone. Your assumption that interviews can only be done when one is being bombed is past ridiculous.

When people are being interviewed we are looking for information such as:

1-age, religion, family history

2-medical history, current and past medical issues

3-size of family

4-information as to whether,father, brother, uncle is being violent or sexually molesting their own

family members or others

5-possible signs of criminal or extremist political connections

6-possible transferable work skills

7-language ability.

1-7 have nothing to do with the US.

Again this notion you have that we only need to vet immigrants or refugees because of Trump is one of your bizarre assumptions

which get stranger in each response.

Regards, David Bowie (Ziggy Stardust)

 

This makes no sense, a person's age wll not determine if they are a terrorist, and without any information, you cannot even determine if they are lying because you have no way to verify any of it.

[H10]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

Blah-blah-blah. Your pointless bravado is irrelevant. 

The only fear that pressures our PM to comply, is the fear of getting booted out of office for nuking our economy - especially when he's running up tons of bills over his senseless spending spree!   

The people are already saying he has to put the interest of Canada first!  Everybody's talking about our economy! 

So yes, HE HAS TO!

Harper nuked the economy already, can't nuke it again.

[Bonam]

20 minutes ago, hernanday said:

You claimed jews are mixed with arab blood, but arabs nor jews are not a race, arabs are an ethnicity and a culture, jew is a religion.

Hah. You got some researching to do so you can know what you're talking about. 

[H10]

2 hours ago, Bonam said:

Hah. You got some researching to do so you can know what you're talking about. 

No, you got research to do, you don't know what you are talking about.

[betsy]

9 hours ago, hernanday said:

Harper nuked the economy already, can't nuke it again.

You're just blabbing!  That's not a rebuttal.

[Michael Hardner]

Folks, stop the personal jabs.  Bring some evidence to your points and discuss that.