"The Problem Of Blackness"

[betsy]

8 hours ago, hernanday said:

The experts are telling us the vast majority of the white body behaves in a discriminatory manner.  What is wrong with studying the facts and evidence?  If facts and evidence show all whites are racist and discriminatory, then the schools have a responsibility to deconstruct that racism and discrimination with just and proper treatment.

No one wants white people to feel defensive, rather they want them to stop practicing racism and discrimination.

White people do not have to apologize for being born white, but they should apologize for oppressing other peoples, all the land theft, mass murder, nuclear bombs, disease spreading etc.

All whites are some kind of a supremacist when you look at the facts and evidence, the schools are trying to fix this.  We already have resentments and division in our society, we thought ignoring them would make it go away, but it turns out it has made it much worse.

We have books written by white people like black like me, who've walked in the skin of african americans and concluded whites are bitter foaming at the mouth racist, we know whiteness is the problem, this is what the evidence shows, its not reds, yellows, blacks or browns, as president lula da silvia said, white people with blue eyes are the cause of this crisis.

It is no one's fault but white people's so its time the academics stop acting all mealy mouthed and beating around the bush.  Racism is a white problem, whiteness is the problem, the issues we are having in society now, deal with the bad behaviour of white people.  And until they accept that and change their behaviour, things will be worse for everyone in society.

 

Who are these so-called "experts?"

Anyway.....

What is "discrimination?"  The last time I look - women are still discriminated against in certain parts of the world populated by "non-whites."  What about the caste system - also practiced by non-whites?  What about discrimination against particular groups like Jews? The  UN itself is guilty of that!

What  exactly do they mean by, "racism?"

 

Who gets to decide what racism and discriminatory behaviours should be stopped? 

 

I'm not saying there are no white racists who deliberately discriminate against blacks or non-whites.  The problem is lumping all white folks together and telling them, "you've got a problem of whiteness."

They. do. not.

White folks can be.....and should be proud of their own identity......just like everyone else!  

 

What they should try to understand is, how come some non-whites have problems and obsession with whiteness.

 

This is political ideology - a racist ideology - that's gnawing at the bit over white people, through the help of some guilt-ridden white people who think there should be some sort of an atonement!   BS!

 

 

 

Quote

Racism is a white problem, whiteness is the problem, the issues we are having in society now, deal with the bad behaviour of white people.  And until they accept that and change their behaviour, things will be worse for everyone in society.

Not necessarily.

When you dig deeper, and be honest about it.....usually you'll find the problem is the old green-eyed monster called, "envy."

 

And these white folks  condescendingly, pinning all blames on themselves , obsessed with their condescending atonement - for seeing themselves above what they consider as pathetic non-whites - have psychological problems.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

6 hours ago, hernanday said:

Define how you use the term racism. 

If you mean bigotry, as in not liking someone for their race, then that is a problem.

 

 

A lot of blacks, and Indians don't like white people.   A lot of non-whites hate white people.

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

What is "discrimination?"  The last time I look - women are still discriminated against in certain parts of the world populated by "non-whites."  What about the caste system - also practiced by non-whites?  What about discrimination against particular groups like Jews?

Why would I excuse myself from trying to do better because those people are worse?   

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Agree.  There's no "black" culture either.  What do black people in Zimbabwe have in common culturally with ie: African-Americans who whose family have lived there for centuries?

There's no culture based on the colour of one's skin.

There is a Black culture within the United States.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

 

A lot of blacks, and Indians don't like white people.   A lot of non-whites hate white people.

Asians hate Blacks, and vice versa. The experience of Black people who go to Asia is rarely pleasant.

[Smallc]

54 minutes ago, Argus said:

There is a Black culture within the United States.

No, not really.

[kimmy]

 

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

Merely by virtue of being white, you have no choice but to live a 'white identity'.   Doesn't matter if you believe you have nothing in common with all your white neighbors, your white skin, in Canada, provides you with certain privileges of which you are largely unaware.  

And I have my own crosses to bear of which the Afro-Cultural Academic Sciences Community may also be largely unaware.

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps you've been to a Richmond mall and experienced being the only *white* person in a sea of non-whites, of seeing signs that are not your native language, and hearing all around you a language you do not understand.   It can be disconcerting, at the least.  This is the experience for virtually every immigrant who comes to Canada, something they live with daily.   This is not something you even have to think about, because you are White and Canada is steeped in White (Canadian) culture.

And?

People from other countries come to Canada knowing that they're entering a different culture, often with different language, different religion, and one where they'll be a "visible minority" to use the official government description  I don't feel that I bear any guilt if they find any of those things upsetting, and I don't know what I could do to change any of those things even if I did.

I have been in environments where white people and english speakers were an extreme minority, and I can relate. Then again, I've much more often found myself in an environment where women are an extreme minority. I've had a number of jobs where I'm the only woman present. The fact that most of my coworkers have white skin has been of little reassurance to me in those situations.

I do live in a smaller center where a large majority of the population is white. From listening to the way these academics speak you'd think Kim City would be just one big happy family. I don't an issue of race working against me, so what could I possibly have to worry about, right?

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

You can walk down the street in any urban center and see your *kind* reflected back at you at least 50% of the time.  In many places in Canada, especially small towns, you have that sameness reflected back to you 90% of the time or more.   Your culture surrounds you daily, in ways large and small and in ways you don't even recognize.  People smile at you more - because you are White.   Sales people help (or harass, depending on your mood) more quickly - because you are white.   Your Whiteness will get you jobs more easily and will also predispose other White people to trust you more readily - this trust is no small thing when white people make up the majority of the population in Canada.  

"my kind" and "sameness" being defined only by a European ancestry?  What value is there in that?  Does it make me safer? no. Does it put money in my pocket? no. Does it get me past the lineup? no.  I know that for minority groups, a shared identity can be a bonding experience-- I have some neighbors who are Korean exchange students, and they often have parties attended by other Korean exchange students.  There aren't a lot of Koreans in my town, but they've formed a community based around their shared experience. For them, the shared language, culture, and challenge of living in a foreign country is a bonding experience. There's no similar experience among people with a general European ancestry. It isn't a bonding experience.  White people in my town build their own communities based on other factors-- their work, their church, the connections they made growing up, hobbies and activities, or something else. Without race to divide us, we have to find other ways to divide ourselves. In my community, it's primarily class, age, political views, and religious views... and I am pretty sure those factors are significant coast to coast.

Being a moderately attractive blonde has been helpful in getting me jobs... in waitressing.  That's one thing I can agree with you on. Someone who looks like me has an advantage in getting a job serving drinks while dressed in a small dress or tank-top. When it comes to applying fpr jobs where I'd get to wear grown-up clothes, I started coloring my hair, because I know from experience that it changes the way people interact with me.  The wonderful service I get when I go shopping usually consists of sales-people coming over and assuming I'm dumb or gullible or both. I don't have salespeople watching me to make sure I don't steal stuff, I get them talking down to me like I'm an easy mark. I don't think my overall appearance encourages people to trust me, I think it encourages them to think I'm a mark, a prize, or possibly a target.

And when I travel by air, I get selected for "enhanced screening" just as often as any bearded brown-skinned man. hmmm.

22 hours ago, dialamah said:

You don't have to concern yourself with the Argus's and Taxme's of this world, who would be happy to ensure you didn't live here if you weren't White. Nobody will accost you in a parking lot or on a bus and yell at you for not being White.   Should Canada elect their own Trump, you will not be a target of White Supremacists or Neo-Nazi groups, or even fanatical right-wing nuts.  

I get accosted the street for reasons other than skin tone. If Canada elects its own Trump, I've got my own worries despite being white. I have my own reasons to fear fanatical right-wing nuts, and there are probably a lot more of those in Kim City than there are in Metro Vancouver.

 -k

[H10]

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Bigotry is concerned with ideas, and views, not race.

Racism is no more a white problem than it is a problem of any other colour.  It's a people problem.  I think attributing it to one race alone is a racist notion. 

Edit - Oops, I just remembered, I can get in trouble for that, so I deleted it. 

T

" noun

1.

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, espon religion, politics, or race"

 

bigot

 

I noticed I asked you to define racism, and you instead went on to try to (erroneously) define bigotry.  i find it suspect in how you are trying to slide and avoid answering how you define racism.

[H10]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The term "whiteness" is used in academia to examine power structures where whites are/have oppressed on other races etc.  I have no problem with the study of racial power structures, and criticizing behaviours of some white people/groups, but using the term "whiteness" in a negative connotation towards whites as a race like that is absolutely racist.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/whiteness

"Whiteness" is a term, to me, that should mean that which encompasses the entire spectrum of experiences and cultural trends of being white.  To say that this spectrum of "being white" has a negative connotation and that being white can be summed up wholly or almost wholly as being an oppressor is racist and disgusting.  I have no problem with the racial study, just find a non-racist term for it.

But not all whites define themselves as white, and even who is classified as white is very malleable and has changed several times even in the last 100 years.

I think they understand whiteness as a cultural construct rather than merely physical attributes.  When I see a course titled the problem of whiteness, it is not the skin color (white people are of a pink or beige skin color) but rather the cultural construct around white supremacy.  Why was the concept of whiteness created in America, European pink skin people were not calling themselves white when they first came here.  Once you figure that out, you will underrstand why the course title is not only not racist, but the most accurate term that can exist.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, hernanday said:

T

" noun

1.

a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, espon religion, politics, or race"

 

bigot

 

I noticed I asked you to define racism, and you instead went on to try to (erroneously) define bigotry.  i find it suspect in how you are trying to slide and avoid answering how you define racism.

It was because you got bigotry wrong. I couldn't help myself. 

Racism is discrimination and/or prejudice against people due to their race or ethnicity.  Happens a lot, all over the world. 

[GostHacked]

On 12/25/2016 at 0:31 PM, Michael Hardner said:

The thing that you are all missing is that it's whites doing all of this reflection.  If black Americans made a course called 'the Negro problem' no one would care.

This story is hysterical reaction to people who are afraid to look at their own culture critically.

Then they could make a better title for the course, it's misleading.

[H10]

8 hours ago, betsy said:

Who are these so-called "experts?"

Anyway.....

Professors in academia who study race and culture.

 

8 hours ago, betsy said:

What is "discrimination?"  The last time I look - women are still discriminated against in certain parts of the world populated by "non-whites."  What about the caste system - also practiced by non-whites?  What about discrimination against particular groups like Jews? The  UN itself is guilty of that!

What  exactly do they mean by, "racism?"

racism and discrimination are treatment that is disparate that is not properly deserved nor what one ought deserve. It is true that women do face issues in other parts of the world, however one of the main ways that white supremacy and white racism is practiced, is when the topic of racism is brought up, they try to make confusion by diverting the conversation to a different matter (sexism is usually their favourite).  As such I had made it a practice to not respond to these types of comments to reduce the amount of confusion victims of racism may experience.  However, if you want to start a new thread, and invite me with those other topics, I will participate.  And who has discriminated against jews more so than blonde hair blue eyed aryan german and european people who constructed the jewish holocaust?

Racism is when people who come from the more powerful group with more access to resources uses that imbalance in power and resources to marginalize, exclude, exploit and subjugate people from the weaker group.

 

8 hours ago, betsy said:

Who gets to decide what racism and discriminatory behaviours should be stopped? 

I'm not saying there are no white racists who deliberately discriminate against blacks or non-whites.  The problem is lumping all white folks together and telling them, "you've got a problem of whiteness."

They. do. not.

The victims of racism and white supremacy should get to decide, but since whites are the more powerful resourced group, it means they get to decide.

A white person does not have to take any deliberate, or conscious act to discriminate against a non-white person.  This is a myth pushed by white supremacist because they are trying to play the intent game, full well knowing that intent is nearly impossible to prove unless the person admits to it.  In most cases, intent is simply inferred from the actions and circumstances. Your intent is irrelevant, if your behaviour is racist and our discriminatory in effect.  Just the fact that there are white people who do not deliberately discriminate show how bad the racism problem is! They are discriminating, and don't even know they are doing it, which is why they get so angry when they are called racist because they have trained themselves that a racist is a bad guy riding on horse back with sword and swastika or kkk beheading jews and non-whites.

 

Learn how the concept of whiteness was created.  Whites is not like yellowness, or redness or blackness or brownness, it is not simply meant to be a pseudo-descriptive type quality of phenotype.  When you learn that, you will see that whiteness is the problem and white people are the problem as professor robert jensen eloquently describes.

 

8 hours ago, betsy said:

White folks can be.....and should be proud of their own identity......just like everyone else!  

What they should try to understand is, how come some non-whites have problems and obsession with whiteness.

This is political ideology - a racist ideology - that's gnawing at the bit over white people, through the help of some guilt-ridden white people who think there should be some sort of an atonement!   BS!

I agree, they should be proud of their german, italian, swedish, british whatever heritage.  Those are not the problem, the problem is whiteness.

The reason they have problems with whiteness, is because whiteness is the problem, what else should a person have a problem with except the problem?  That is like asking why do cancer patients have a problem with cancer!

 

8 hours ago, betsy said:

Not necessarily.

When you dig deeper, and be honest about it.....usually you'll find the problem is the old green-eyed monster called, "envy."

And these white folks  condescendingly, pinning all blames on themselves , obsessed with their condescending atonement - for seeing themselves above what they consider as pathetic non-whites - have psychological problems.

 

I may not know as many non-whites as you, but I have never met a non-white peoples in large numbers who said, we wish we enslaved the africans and genocided them first, we wish we genocided the jews first, we wish we killed the red indians and black indians and stole all their land and we wish we eliminated the aboriginals and aboringe and maori in oceania and australia first.

The white people who are trying to make atonement understand the issues and the problem of whiteness and have dedicated themselves to the study of this topic.

[H10]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It was because you got bigotry wrong. I couldn't help myself. 

Racism is discrimination and/or prejudice against people due to their race or ethnicity.  Happens a lot, all over the world. 

My usage of the term bigotry is consistent with my quote from the dictionary.  I asked you to define racism, because I have come to learn most people are using generalist terms in speaking about racism rather than specialist terms (which you did).

Can you lower your vocabulary in defining the term racism.  What do you mean by discrimination and prejudice in your definition.

[H10]

8 hours ago, betsy said:

 

A lot of blacks, and Indians don't like white people.   A lot of non-whites hate white people.

So in your mind racism is hating someone or not liking someone?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, hernanday said:

My usage of the term bigotry is consistent with my quote from the dictionary.  I asked you to define racism, because I have come to learn most people are using generalist terms in speaking about racism rather than specialist terms (which you did).

Can you lower your vocabulary in defining the term racism.  What do you mean by discrimination and prejudice in your definition.

Well, you said this:

Quote

If you mean bigotry, as in not liking someone for their race, then that is a problem.

To me, that is the most basic manifestation of racism.

Bigotry is defined as intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself, when one looks for the most basic definition.

Discrimination and prejudice are also in the dictionary.

I suspect you are one of those people who prefers to define racism such that certain races are exempt from being accused of it. 

In my view, anyone can be racist.

[H10]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Well, you said this:

To me, that is the most basic manifestation of racism.

Bigotry is defined as intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself, when one looks for the most basic definition.

Discrimination and prejudice are also in the dictionary.

I suspect you are one of those people who prefers to define racism such that certain races are exempt from being accused of it. 

In my view, anyone can be racist.

I strongly suspect and have come to learn that one of the ways that white supremacy and white racism are practiced by white people is by [trying to] confusing non-white people.  I have experienced a pattern where white people attempt to divert the conversation away from racism whenever it is brought up.  I noticed I asked you quiet some time ago to define racism(at least how you are using it) and you have gone on to define bigotry, to challenge my definition of bigotry, to tell me what terms are in the dictionary, and then tell me what kind of person you suspect I am.  

Can you lower your vocabulary in defining the term racism.  What do you mean by discrimination and prejudice in your definition?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, hernanday said:

I strongly suspect and have come to learn that one of the ways that white supremacy and white racism are practiced by white people is by [trying to] confusing non-white people.  I have experienced a pattern where white people attempt to divert the conversation away from racism whenever it is brought up.  I noticed I asked you quiet some time ago to define racism(at least how you are using it) and you have gone on to define bigotry, to challenge my definition of bigotry, to tell me what terms are in the dictionary, and then tell me what kind of person you suspect I am.  

Can you lower your vocabulary in defining the term racism.  What do you mean by discrimination and prejudice in your definition?

Posted about an hour ago:

Quote

Racism is discrimination and/or prejudice against people due to their race or ethnicity.  Happens a lot, all over the world.

Did you miss it?

 

Edit>

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by bcsapper

[Argus]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Posted about an hour ago:

Did you miss it?

Clearly you confused him. Good work, brother.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, hernanday said:

I strongly suspect and have come to learn that one of the ways that white supremacy and white racism are practiced by white people is by [trying to] confusing non-white people.  I have experienced a pattern where white people attempt to divert the conversation away from racism whenever it is brought up.  I noticed I asked you quiet some time ago to define racism(at least how you are using it) and you have gone on to define bigotry, to challenge my definition of bigotry, to tell me what terms are in the dictionary, and then tell me what kind of person you suspect I am.  

Can you lower your vocabulary in defining the term racism.  What do you mean by discrimination and prejudice in your definition?

Yeah, we wouldn't want to try and tell someone else what kind of person they are, would we?

[H10]

15 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Posted about an hour ago:

Did you miss it?

 

Edit>

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

 

No I didn't miss it, I asked you to clarify it, and lower your vocabulary.  And now you finally have done it.

 

When did the people who identify themselves as white, begin to identify themselves as white in the Americas, and for what purpose did they do so?

[H10]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

Clearly you confused him. Good work, brother.

Well I can not accuse you of being mealy mouthed here. A good ol pat on the back for wr/ws

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, hernanday said:

No I didn't miss it, I asked you to clarify it, and lower your vocabulary.  And now you finally have done it.

 

When did the people who identify themselves as white, begin to identify themselves as white in the Americas, and for what purpose did they do so?

I have to admit, I don't know what "lower your vocabulary" means.

As to your questions, I have no idea.

[H10]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I have to admit, I don't know what "lower your vocabulary" means.

As to your questions, I have no idea.

It means to use words that are not so big, a more simply vocabulary.

So you don't know when did the people who identify themselves as white, begin to identify themselves as white in the Americas, and for what purpose did they do so?  

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, hernanday said:

No I didn't miss it, I asked you to clarify it, and lower your vocabulary.  And now you finally have done it.

Maybe I could ask you to clarify something.  What does dum gookz mean?

[Guest]

Just now, hernanday said:

It means to use words that are not so big, a more simply vocabulary.

So you don't know when did the people who identify themselves as white, begin to identify themselves as white in the Americas, and for what purpose did they do so?  

It's not been an interest of mine, and I don't see it becoming one anytime soon.