Liberals purchase new SAR aircraft.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Certainly!  And the Auditor General has been doing quite a good job.  And DND alone should never be allowed to make these types of decisions.  We would have out-of-control defence spending.  They would buy a Cadillac SUV when a Jeep would do the same thing.

perhaps you can name a purchase that was entirely run and controlled by DND......perhaps you can state for the record, the last time DND advised they preferred a certain product and the government approved of it......Perhaps Defense spending would not be so overwhelming if you did so on a regular bases.....and not put it off for 30 years.....and now it is rusting out......and when you finally have to dig in your wallets you cry and cry, and cry....Damn Military.....they suck they want everything.....

I wonder if the story would be the same to all you cheap bastards if it was you, or you sons and daughters strapping themselves into an F-18 or going sailing on one of our frigs, maybe flying a sea king....Don't worry though....your grand sons and daughters will also be given a chance to use the same equipment.....Canada is so tight, sparks fly from our asses.....it's a wonderful sight at night really it is....attracts tourist from around the world....Come in see the walking sparks show on ice..... 

[The_Squid]

11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

perhaps you can name a purchase that was entirely run and controlled by DND......perhaps you can state for the record, the last time DND advised they preferred a certain product and the government approved of it......Perhaps Defense spending would not be so overwhelming if you did so on a regular bases.....and not put it off for 30 years.....and now it is rusting out......and when you finally have to dig in your wallets you cry and cry, and cry....Damn Military.....they suck they want everything.....

I wonder if the story would be the same to all you cheap bastards if it was you, or you sons and daughters strapping themselves into an F-18 or going sailing on one of our frigs, maybe flying a sea king....Don't worry though....your grand sons and daughters will also be given a chance to use the same equipment.....Canada is so tight, sparks fly from our asses.....it's a wonderful sight at night really it is....attracts tourist from around the world....Come in see the walking sparks show on ice..... 

This is all just nonsensical whining...   You admitted the plane meets the specs and can do the job.   It will be a fine plane, even if it doesn't have the head room @Derek 2.0 thinks it should have.  LOL  

 

[Army Guy]

25 minutes ago, Omni said:

I would simply direct your attention back to the F-35 debacle. 

Another example of members of DND doing what stuffing their pockets at the expense of Canadians, or where they trying to look after their people and get the best equipment available to them trying to save some lives......they worst crime ever......and yet government officals have stolen, taken, used tax payers money to line their own pockets and in the eyes of you and others they are beyond approach .....which baffles me to no end....how you can stretch reality of DND commanders doing something to better the service, save some lives, serve this country......to being irresponsible , not to be trusted , treated like a 16 year old.......but when a politician takes tax payers money and steals it, misuses it, pisses it away on some idea.....everything is normal in your world.....in fact your will to go on a public forum and defend their acts.....and slam the military, as no good, not trust worthy, only worthy of second rate, or in most cases cheapest bidder.....Thanks for the support, glad you have the backs of our military members serving or retired....

[Omni]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Another example of members of DND doing what stuffing their pockets at the expense of Canadians, or where they trying to look after their people and get the best equipment available to them trying to save some lives......they worst crime ever......and yet government officals have stolen, taken, used tax payers money to line their own pockets and in the eyes of you and others they are beyond approach .....which baffles me to no end....how you can stretch reality of DND commanders doing something to better the service, save some lives, serve this country......to being irresponsible , not to be trusted , treated like a 16 year old.......but when a politician takes tax payers money and steals it, misuses it, pisses it away on some idea.....everything is normal in your world.....in fact your will to go on a public forum and defend their acts.....and slam the military, as no good, not trust worthy, only worthy of second rate, or in most cases cheapest bidder.....Thanks for the support, glad you have the backs of our military members serving or retired....

I don't think anyone here has said any of that. I simply pointed out the demonstrated need for independent oversight.

[The_Squid]

3 minutes ago, Omni said:

I don't think anyone here has said any of that. I simply pointed out the demonstrated need for independent oversight.

Apparently, you want children to die in a Sea King helicopter!  

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, The_Squid said:

This is all just nonsensical whining...   You admitted the plane meets the specs and can do the job.   It will be a fine plane, even if it doesn't have the head room @Derek 2.0 thinks it should have.  LOL  

 

Here I'll help you, Never....it has never happened....politicians have always chosen our military equipment , for all kinds of reasons, like it looks cool, I've always wanted one, it might create some jobs, great way to force foreign companies to invest in our country......

Ya I get the head room comment pretty silly ......imagine complaining about having to be bent over all day...while the civilian whiners have whined and sued , and claimed work mens comp over not having a mouse pad,at their work stations.... which lead to limp wrists....and turning into liberal fanboys.....not to mention these guys have to concentrate on searching for people in dire need with nothing more than cramped necks..... what a bunch of pussies.....can you imagine for another 5 dollars they could have bought the C-27J

 

[Omni]

11 minutes ago, The_Squid said:

Apparently, you want children to die in a Sea King helicopter!  

Oh, I'm a pretty hardcore guy.

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, Omni said:

I don't think anyone here has said any of that. I simply pointed out the demonstrated need for independent oversight.

What are you saying ...it was you that compared DND to a your 16 year old son...was it not.....If they were not stealing or misusing tax payers money what have they done to deserve the things you've posted.....wanting better equipment for your soldiers is a bad thing, this act has cost DND the trust of the public.........stealing tax payers money is a good thing and has earned politicians the right to do it over and over again, plus earned the public respect to over see the military on everything they do.......

[Smallc]

This plane met specs drawn up by the National Research Council at a lower price.  Our fleet is not shrinking, as the C-130H models we were using had dual and even triple roles - no longer.  There was a fairness monitor in place - the Conservatives smartly started that practice.  

And as for headroom - lol - there's more than the Buffalo. Whine whine whine.

[Omni]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

What are you saying ...it was you that compared DND to a your 16 year old son...was it not.....If they were not stealing or misusing tax payers money what have they done to deserve the things you've posted.....wanting better equipment for your soldiers is a bad thing, this act has cost DND the trust of the public.........stealing tax payers money is a good thing and has earned politicians the right to do it over and over again, plus earned the public respect to over see the military on everything they do.......

All of us would love to have the BEST of everything, however the best is not always required. Hence my auto purchase reference. I don't know what you mean by the military stealing our money idea. Who has said that? 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Omni said:

All of us would love to have the BEST of everything, however the best is not always required. Hence my auto purchase reference.

 

Reference was not clear....a Corvette model is a Chevrolet make.

 

[Omni]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Reference was not clear....a Corvette model is a Chevrolet make.

 

Maybe comparing the MSRP's will clear things up for you.

[Derek 2.0]

13 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Our fleet is not shrinking, as the C-130H models we were using had dual and even triple roles - no longer.

 

All of our SAR squadrons have secondary roles.......how many aircraft are the C-295s replacing among our current squadrons? Your math seems a little fuzzy

14 minutes ago, Smallc said:

And as for headroom - lol - there's more than the Buffalo. Whine whine whine.

 

Making up more "facts"? The interior of the Buffalo is nearly 7', versus just over 6' for the C-295........the ability to stand fully erect does effect crew fatigue, in addition, the free movement of SARTECHs in the back wearing jump boots and helmets........of course the C-27J and C-130 are both over 8'.....makes a difference between what the aircraft can carry.....A Herc can carry a Griffon...a C-27J a Humvee size truck or a BV-206 tracked ATV, all items that the RCAF does carry, including on domestic operations....the C-295, not so much. 

 

Hence Trudeau's selection is both a reduction in numbers and capability.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dre said:

If you want to blame government for the airforce not getting plane they wanted ask the conservative party why they took the project away from the military and gave to to public procurement.

I don't understand these kinds of arguments. Those of us who are critical of the way the government is treating the military under the Liberals were also critical of the Conservatives.

The only change is that those of you who were wholly critical of how the Conservatives acted are now wholly supportive of the Liberals doing the same sorts of things.

 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

I would simply direct your attention back to the F-35 debacle. 

That would be the aircraft the Liberals were entirely in support of until they lost the election and then became entirely critical of? It was and remains the right aircraft, notwithstanding the political grandstanding of unethical leftist politicians.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, The_Squid said:

Not the same thing...  This was a competitive bid and the winning plane meats all the criteria.  The self-proclaimed experts here are simply CPC hacks who would have complained with whatever plane was selected.

If the PC's were in power now I would be just as critical of them, as I have been in the past.

The difference would be you would be fiercely and furiously opposed to every aspect of this purchase.

What was it you said about hacks?

[Argus]

1 hour ago, The_Squid said:

Certainly!  And the Auditor General has been doing quite a good job.  And DND alone should never be allowed to make these types of decisions.  We would have out-of-control defence spending.  They would buy a Cadillac SUV when a Jeep would do the same thing.

Now you're quoting Jean Chretien, who dicked around with helicopter purchases and cost us a billion dollars to further his own ambitions?

What was that you said about hacks, again?

[Omni]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

That would be the aircraft the Liberals were entirely in support of until they lost the election and then became entirely critical of? It was and remains the right aircraft, notwithstanding the political grandstanding of unethical leftist politicians.

That would be the aircraft that landed Harper in such trouble and caused the file to be removed from his care where it finally died on the vine, thankfully.

[Omni]

9 minutes ago, Argus said:

Now you're quoting Jean Chretien, who dicked around with helicopter purchases and cost us a billion dollars to further his own ambitions?

What was that you said about hacks, again?

A billion? Yes we did get saddled with penalty costs but a billion, no not even a half. And then Harper dicked around with the Cyclone contract and still no helicopters.

[The_Squid]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Now you're quoting Jean Chretien, who dicked around with helicopter purchases and cost us a billion dollars to further his own ambitions?

What was that you said about hacks, again?

Where did i quote Chrétien?

 

[dre]

2 hours ago, Derek 2.0 said:

Further to money, why did the Liberal government only sign a 5 year support contract (with a 15 year option)? Clearly we will operate these aircraft longer then 5 years.....the answer is clear, the Trudeau government wants to dick around with the program costs.......doesn't seem too open and transparent to me. 

They have published the costs of the project until 2050 including the additional support contract. Its 14.7 billion.

Edited December 11, 2016 by dre

[dre]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I don't understand these kinds of arguments. Those of us who are critical of the way the government is treating the military under the Liberals were also critical of the Conservatives.

The only change is that those of you who were wholly critical of how the Conservatives acted are now wholly supportive of the Liberals doing the same sorts of things.

 

I actually think the Conservatives deserve as much credit as the liberals. And I like the deal simply because it looks like the new plane is up to the task and it cost a little less money.

[Derek 2.0]

53 minutes ago, dre said:

They have published the costs of the project until 2050 including the additional support contract. Its 14.7 billion.

 

Source? And does it include sunk costs of running the reduced fleet?

[dre]

39 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

Source? And does it include sunk costs of running the reduced fleet?

Quote

 

he government has an option to extend the maintenance contract another 15 years, which would increase the total price-tag to $4.7 billion.

National Defence estimates the full cost of buying, operating and maintaining the planes through 2052 will be around $14.7 billion.

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-s-new-search-and-rescue-plane-airbus-c295-1.3194690

I dont know if those numbers are accurate or not or what methodology national defense applied. But they are pretty close to your own estimates.

[Smallc]

So they did follow the prescribed method - @Army Guy, what now?