betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) On 12/6/2016 at 6:05 PM, The_Squid said: Do you believe the sun revolves around the Earth? NO! Do you? Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) On 12/6/2016 at 10:05 PM, dre said: No its not faith at all. We have evidence of how fast the earth rotates and we know to the millisecond when it will rise and when it will set. We complete understand the physics involved. So faith plays no part. Also "evidence" does not have to be completely conclusive. It just has to result in belief in a reasonable mind. People who believe in the "evidence" could still be wrong... But they will be right a lot more of the time than someone that reads a 2 thousand year old book written by people that thought the earth was flat, and accept it as the truth. You just flat out lack the most basic critical thinking skills. Your posts are so packed full of logical fallacy, and long ago debunked assertions its amazing people even respond. You have the strongest faith around here, Dre. You're running on pure faith! Your posts are so packed full of logical fallacy, and long ago debunked assertions - just like your so-called evidence that you didn't even know had been debunked long time ago! If you don't need any conclusive evidence.....then you should be open to the possibility of God, after all the National Academy of Sciences doesn't rule out Creation - in fact, the NAS is open to it. Your faith even goes against science. It is based on nothing else. Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
carepov Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 13 hours ago, The_Squid said: Good judgement? I don't know what you're trying to get at... Good evidence. People believe all sorts of bad evidence and make all sorts of claims that there is evidence for God. People claim there is evidence for ghosts too. Once you dig a little deeper, the "evidence" is always anecdotal.... personal experience... a feeling in your heart... the bible... they heard a bump in the night... None of that is good evidence for the existence of the supernatural when you look at what would constitute good evidence and all of it has some other explanation that is just as good of an explanation as the supernatural. What I am trying to get at is to point out that you and others here seem to have a double standard. For non-religious beliefs, any evidence, even anecdotal, will do "their own skill-set at running a business, books they've read, courses they've taken, the fact that other businesses doing the same thing have been successful, etc, etc.". While for religious beliefs you start to judge good/bad evidence as above. Quote
drummindiver Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 4 hours ago, betsy said: u don't need any conclusive evidence.....then you should be open to the possibility of God, after all the National Academy of Sciences doesn't rule out Creation - in fact, the NAS is open to it. Richard Dawkins, one of the most famous atheists alive doesn't rule it out either, but states it is very highly unlikely. I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. No God. Quote
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 7 hours ago, betsy said: You have the strongest faith around here, Dre. You're running on pure faith! Your posts are so packed full of logical fallacy, and long ago debunked assertions - just like your so-called evidence that you didn't even know had been debunked long time ago! If you don't need any conclusive evidence.....then you should be open to the possibility of God, after all the National Academy of Sciences doesn't rule out Creation - in fact, the NAS is open to it. Your faith even goes against science. It is based on nothing else. Oh are you referencing your idiotic macro evolution thread where I wiped the floor with your face gave you numerous examples of macroevolution, and then you ran away? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
The_Squid Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 6 hours ago, carepov said: What I am trying to get at is to point out that you and others here seem to have a double standard. For non-religious beliefs, any evidence, even anecdotal, will do "their own skill-set at running a business, books they've read, courses they've taken, the fact that other businesses doing the same thing have been successful, etc, etc.". While for religious beliefs you start to judge good/bad evidence as above. To compare believing that your business will be a success and believing in god is rather apples and oranges. The analogy doesn't make any sense as one is a belief in one's abilities (rather abstract) and the other is a belief in an actual being. Quote
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, drummindiver said: Richard Dawkins, one of the most famous atheists alive doesn't rule it out either, but states it is very highly unlikely. I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. No God. Who cares about opinion! Especially the opinion of the senile Dawkins! He's an embarrassment! The only reason he's famous is because he'd decided to peddle pseudo-science crutches - in the guise of books - for the new atheists. You guys like to bring up science when it suits you....and yet, you're only too willing to contradict it when it doesn't agree with you! Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) On 12/6/2016 at 6:05 PM, The_Squid said: Do you believe the sun revolves around the Earth? You ignored my response, so I'll post it again: I said, NO! Do you believe the sun revolves around the earth? WHY???? Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, dre said: Oh are you referencing your idiotic macro evolution thread where I wiped the floor with your face gave you numerous examples of macroevolution, and then you ran away? You wish. You're still smarting from that........... that's why you can't even keep away from my posts! You say you're amazed someone still responds to me.....look at you! Quote
The_Squid Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 48 minutes ago, betsy said: Do you believe the sun revolves around the earth? WHY???? There is a lot of evidence to the contrary... so no, I don't. Why did the church insist that the bible says the sun revolves around the earth until they couldn't deny it any longer? Science, onc again, proved the bible incorrect. Quote On February 24 the Qualifiers delivered their unanimous report: the idea that the Sun is stationary is "foolish and absurd in philosophy; and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture"; while the Earth's movement "receives the same judgement in philosophy; and ... in regard to theological truth it is at least erroneous in faith." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair Quote
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 1 hour ago, betsy said: You ignored my response, so I'll post it again: I said, NO! Do you believe the sun revolves around the earth? WHY???? Are you completely serious? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
carepov Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, The_Squid said: To compare believing that your business will be a success and believing in god is rather apples and oranges. The analogy doesn't make any sense as one is a belief in one's abilities (rather abstract) and the other is a belief in an actual being. You are correct not a perfect comparison. Believing that your business will be a success is different and does not necessarily involve faith - but it can. Believing in god is comparable to believing in the existence of extraterrestrial life. p.s. For some people, "god" does not necessarily represent an actual being Edited December 8, 2016 by carepov Quote
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, dre said: Are you completely serious? YES! I don't believe what Squid had said. Seriously. I gather you and he, share that same belief. Why do you believe the sun revolves around the earth? Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 59 minutes ago, betsy said: You wish. Why would I be smarting from a thread where I tore you to pieces and you had to run away and hide? Macroevolution is simply evolution that results in the creation of a discrete new species that cannot breed with its ancestors. There's plenty of real observable examples of that, and I provided them. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, carepov said: Believing in god is comparable to believing in the existence of extraterrestrial life. No those two things are not comparable at all. There is no proof that either exists or does not exist, but that's where the comparison ends. Religion and the existence of any of the gods that humans believe in are human inventions. We know why the myths were invented, and have a pretty good understand of why. Your suggestion is like saying that believing a huge invisible purple rabbit floats above each of us, is akin to believing in extraterrestrial life. Those two things are different because we both know I just invented the huge purple rabbit myth right in front of you in this thread. In one case... extraterrestrial life... we know nothing at all. In the other... human religion... we know that humans have invented thousands of god mythologies, and that its something we are predisposed to doing either as a way to explain things we dont understand or exert power on others. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
betsy Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, dre said: Why would I be smarting from a thread where I tore you to pieces and you had to run away and hide? Macroevolution is simply evolution that results in the creation of a discrete new species that cannot breed with its ancestors. There's plenty of real observable examples of that, and I provided them. We're not talking about macroevolution. You gave an alleged evidence for macroevlotuion, but what you didn't know was that your so-called evidence was debunked ages ago! Go ahead and review our exchanges. You alleged evidence was deemed right up there under "hoaxes" and "frauds." You're just picking up what you see online, and you don't have a clue! Let me prove that....... So, do you believe the sun truly revolves around the earth? If so, explain why you believe that. Why can't you answer that? Edited December 8, 2016 by betsy Quote
Omni Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 It must. I see it getting up and going down every day almost, at least when the weather is clear. Quote
carepov Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 40 minutes ago, dre said: No those two things are not comparable at all. There is no proof that either exists or does not exist, but that's where the comparison ends. Religion and the existence of any of the gods that humans believe in are human inventions. We know why the myths were invented, and have a pretty good understand of why. Your suggestion is like saying that believing a huge invisible purple rabbit floats above each of us, is akin to believing in extraterrestrial life. Those two things are different because we both know I just invented the huge purple rabbit myth right in front of you in this thread. In one case... extraterrestrial life... we know nothing at all. In the other... human religion... we know that humans have invented thousands of god mythologies, and that its something we are predisposed to doing either as a way to explain things we dont understand or exert power on others. You would be right if we were talking about a belief is a specific god with a description. I am not. Comparable 1: -Some kind of god exists that we cannot even fathom because it's existence is beyond our comprehension -Some kind of extraterrestrial life exists - like you said Comparable 2: -Like you said - specific god(s) are doing specific things (like Zeus or some people's interpretation of the biblical God) -Little green men from alpha centauri exist and in fact built the pyramids or your huge invisible purple rabbits, however I'm not sure that one can be purple and invisible simultaneously 1 and 2 are not comparable. Quote
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, carepov said: You would be right if we were talking about a belief is a specific god with a description. I am not. Comparable 1: -Some kind of god exists that we cannot even fathom because it's existence is beyond our comprehension -Some kind of extraterrestrial life exists - like you said Comparable 2: -Like you said - specific god(s) are doing specific things (like Zeus or some people's interpretation of the biblical God) -Little green men from alpha centauri exist and in fact built the pyramids or your huge invisible purple rabbits, however I'm not sure that one can be purple and invisible simultaneously 1 and 2 are not comparable. Oh yeah ok thats better. I wouldn't use the word "god" though. Once you ditch all the human mythology garbage you are really just talking about a "higher power"... an extraterrestrial that is more powerful than us. And yes... that is comparable to the belief in extraterrestrials, and I actually do believe there's a good chance there are extraterrestrials out there that humans would believe were a higher power. I don't "believe" in them, but I don't think its impossible. Based on the sheer number of solar systems, I think its quite plausible that there a thousands of life forms more powerful than us just in this one galaxy. You are talking about something more like deism, as opposed to the made up fake personal gods believed in by Abrahamic skygod cults. I have always found deism to be a bit more reasonable. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
eyeball Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 37 minutes ago, Omni said: It must. I see it getting up and going down every day almost, at least when the weather is clear. I notice God's toenail clipping hanging overhead every other spring tide. What the tide has to do with a toenail is the real mystery. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dre Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 52 minutes ago, betsy said: We're not talking about macroevolution. You gave an alleged evidence for macroevlotuion, but what you didn't know was that your so-called evidence was debunked ages ago! Go ahead and review our exchanges. You alleged evidence was deemed right up there under "hoaxes" and "frauds." You're just picking up what you see online, and you don't have a clue! Let me prove that....... So, do you believe the sun truly revolves around the earth? If so, explain why you believe that. Why can't you answer that? Why do you keep asking me this stupid juvenile question? Of course I don't believe that. There is conclusive proof that it isnt true. Geoncentrism was something pushed by the church because of passages in fake holy books. For example... Quote Ecclesiastes 1:5: The sun rises and the sun goes down,and hurries to the place where it rises. or... Quote Psalm 93:1 The Lord is king, he is robed in majesty; the Lord is robed, he is girded with strength. He has established the world; it shall never be moved. When Copernicin helio-centrism came out the church deemed it heresy. Your friends start burning Copernican books, and threatened to torture Galileo for even talking about the idea. Eventually the tried him for heresy and found him guilty... and he spent the rest of his life under house arrest. So I guess the real question is... And Ill use your stupid big dumb letters to ask it... Why are you practicing heresy against the church and the bible by believing the earth revolves around the sun? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
drummindiver Posted December 8, 2016 Report Posted December 8, 2016 3 hours ago, betsy said: Who cares about opinion! Especially the opinion of the senile Dawkins! He's an embarrassment! The only reason he's famous is because he'd decided to peddle pseudo-science crutches - in the guise of books - for the new atheists. You guys like to bring up science when it suits you....and yet, you're only too willing to contradict it when it doesn't agree with you! Yes, because clearly you reading a book (if in fact you have..most religious ppl I know havent) written by man of God's own word holds more weight than Dawkin's accomplishments. And yes, I am open to change my view when proven wriong. Thats the beautiful thing about science That's why it is stI'll called Gravity Theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins Quote
betsy Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, dre said: Why do you keep asking me this stupid juvenile question? Of course I don't believe that. There is conclusive proof that it isnt true. Geoncentrism was something pushed by the church because of passages in fake holy books. 2 hours ago, Omni said: It must. I see it getting up and going down every day almost, at least when the weather is clear. FYI, it's not the sun that revolves around the earth. It's earth that revolves around the sun. Quote A National Science Foundation study involving 2,200 participants find that about 25 percent of Americans got this question wrong: 'Does the Earth go around the sun, or does the sun go around the Earth?' When asked that question, 1 in 4 Americans surveyed answered incorrectly. Yes, 1 in 4. In other words, a quarter of Americans do not understand one of the most fundamental principles of basic science. So that’s where we are as a society right now. http://time.com/7809/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth/ Edited December 9, 2016 by betsy Quote
The_Squid Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, betsy said: FYI, it's not the sun that revolves around the earth. It's earth that revolves around the sun. Why did the church believe the opposite until science proved the bible wrong? Quote
betsy Posted December 9, 2016 Report Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, dre said: Why do you keep asking me this stupid juvenile question? Of course I don't believe that. There is conclusive proof that it isnt true. Geoncentrism was something pushed by the church because of passages in fake holy books. For example... Quote Ecclesiastes 1:5: The sun rises and the sun goes down,and hurries to the place where it rises. or... Quote Psalm 93:1 The Lord is king, he is robed in majesty; the Lord is robed, he is girded with strength. He has established the world; it shall never be moved. Quote When Copernicin helio-centrism came out the church deemed it heresy. Your friends start burning Copernican books, and threatened to torture Galileo for even talking about the idea. Eventually the tried him for heresy and found him guilty... and he spent the rest of his life under house arrest. So I guess the real question is... And Ill use your stupid big dumb letters to ask it... Why are you practicing heresy against the church and the bible by believing the earth revolves around the sun? Nowhere in the Bible says the earth is at the center of the universe. You might want to check the credibility of your source.....since both verses you quoted doesn't support what you say. Furthermore, you might want to read Psalm 93:1 again. He has established the world; it shall never be moved. It's taken out of context. Since you're using it to support your argument - it proves how you tend to misunderstand what you read....................... ......................or, how you can't even qualify your sources (that you can't tell when you're being given bs). Edited December 9, 2016 by betsy Quote
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