Bryan Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Bonam said: So then do you now agree that the people who would react violently to someone peacefully burning a flag are "bad people"? Rather than sympathizing with such action as you previously mentioned? Perhaps. Provoking is a step further than presenting though. Either way, an illegal act is an illegal act. It wouldn't make it a good thing. But people who provoke should not feign surprise when the bear they poke actually attacks. If you do what you can to avoid an issue and it blindsides you, that is completely different than running right up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 5 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said: All hate speech should be legal. I think so too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 4 hours ago, The_Squid said: Can you show us any examples of burning symbols being prosecuted as hate speech? Prosecuted, who knows. I'd surely be called an anti-semite if I burned an Israeli flag though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Bryan said: Burning isn't talking though. It's deliberate provocation. Getting people upset is the purpose. If you do it, don't be surprised if people do actually get upset. Burning is expression. It's symbolic speech. You don't burn a flag because you want to stay warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Bryan said: Depends on your definition of "OK". Would the person retaliating be legally responsible for their actions? Of course. Would I have sympathy for a provocateur who gets responded to with violence? None whatsoever. They don't deserve violence though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Bryan said: Totally cool? No. But if I do it right in front of a Mosque that is just letting out, and they attack me, that is MY fault. I put myself in that position and incited a situation that otherwise would not have happened. I get what you're saying, but there's no excuse for violence, EVER, unless in self-defense from other violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Bryan said: Lets say you step off a curb and get hit by anything, and maybe you do survive. Perhaps the cross walk lights were on, and the cars were supposed to stop. Legally the driver that hits you is in the wrong, but you are still the one that stepped in front of a moving car. You still caused a collision to happen that would not have otherwise occurred. That's my point. I do see that being in the right doesn't automatically confer immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: I get what you're saying, but there's no excuse for violence, EVER, unless in self-defense from other violence. Of course there is an excuse. Just because you have rights doesn't mean your actions don't have consequences. There are plenty of situations where assaulting someone else is an appropriate response. 2 minutes ago, bcsapper said: That's my point. I do see that being in the right doesn't automatically confer immunity. Then we are on the same page. ...or at least looking at books by the same author... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said: Prosecuted, who knows. I'd surely be called an anti-semite if I burned an Israeli flag though. And you might be one.... being called bad names may be a consequence of your perfectly legal actions. But being arrested by the state, or punched in the nose by Bryan, shouldn't be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Do people really give a shit about burning flags? Or are some of you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 'Murica....where money is free speech but burning a flag is punishable by exile. God bless 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 16 minutes ago, cybercoma said: Do people really give a shit about burning flags? Yeah I don't get it either... I guess Trump cares which is why this topic came up again. People care what that clown tweets since he's gonna be president now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1 hour ago, cybercoma said: Do people really give a shit about burning flags? Or are some of you just arguing for the sake of arguing? I don't, but many do. My larger point is about provocation in general: Legal or not, your mouth should never write cheques that your ass can't cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Notably, flag burning did NOT come up during the Presidential campaign. Likely because the two main candidates were in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 On 2016-11-30 at 9:46 AM, kimmy said: Why is Trump blathering about flag-burning right now? There was a segment on it on Fox and Friends. The president-elect randomly tweets proposals to tear up the constitution based on what he sees on TV at any given moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 10 hours ago, cybercoma said: Do people really give a shit about burning flags? Or are some of you just arguing for the sake of arguing? I care about people having the freedom to do whatever they want, as long as no-one gets hurt. Burning Flags are just like drawing pictures of Mohammad, attending funerals with opinions on placards, Kneeling during the national anthem, or standing on the street outside an abortion clinic holding a picture. It doesn't matter who gets offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Does it matter if people are offended by the flying of certain flags? On 2016-12-01 at 10:19 AM, bcsapper said: I care about people having the freedom to do whatever they want, as long as no-one gets hurt. Burning Flags are just like drawing pictures of Mohammad, attending funerals with opinions on placards, Kneeling during the national anthem, or standing on the street outside an abortion clinic holding a picture. It doesn't matter who gets offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said: Does it matter if people are offended by the flying of certain flags? Not to me. It might matter to them. But that doesn't matter, in my opinion. I guess it could be treasonous, in certain cases, but there are laws and punishments for that that don't take offense into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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