Immigration of religious fanatics

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Nah, I think DoP has the right idea of slandering over a billion people. They are all bad, all Muslims are bad, all Nazis are bad, heck even all communists too!

Yeah but none are as bad as DOP.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Tolerance is maybe a broad descriptor of a unique Canadian value.

But before the rightys get all offended, let me point out that 'tolerance' means tolerating stuff, which means 'putting up with sh**'.  We all have to do that.  We have to put up with weather, with bull****, and each other.

Tolerance.

They only problem with that is, everone has a different view of where tolerance ends and perfectly justifiable intolerance starts.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Christians aren't throwing homosexuals from rooftops.  That would be Islam ... 

In Uganda, a Christian country, Christians are killing gays, being gay will get you jail time and the government would like to make it a capital offence.  In Russia, a predominantly Christian country, there are both legal and social sanctions against gay/LGBT, similar to those in Muslim-majority countries.     In Antigua, a Christian-majority country, being gay can get you 15 years prison time.

In Canada and the US, it's true that gays are usually not murdered, but they certainly aren't universally accepted. The FBI estimates that 20% of hate crimes in the US are directed toward gays and LGBT; in Canada, it's about 16%.    

I agree that Muslim-majority countries are overall more homophobic  than Christian-majority countries, but this silly notion you have that only Islam hates gays is so easily disproven, I'm really surprised you keep trying.

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

How about when Islam has enough political push to change Canadian laws? What then? Sudden liberalism on Muslim's part?

I don't want to live in an Islamic Theocracy even if folks like yourself do.

You and others have claimed this is happening, because in some places sharia councils or courts have been allowed for some limited purposes.   You ignore the fact that these sharia courts are both limited and remain subject to the law of the land in which they are located.  You ignore the fact that many countries, both Islamic and not, allow certain segments of their society leeway in administrating some of their own customs/laws.   Some countries have been doing so for decades, and yet their country's legal system remains secular and maintains veto over the local system's laws.  Some countries with an Islamic state law system allows other legal systems for their non-Muslim minorities.   There are even Muslim-majority countries with secular governments.   This claim that once a population reaches X number of Muslims, then Sharia law must follow is clearly ridiculous.     

You use one-sided, hyperbolic rhetoric to demonize an entire religion and it's followers.  You are full of hate.  You are the intolerant one.  You are the problem.   I personally don't want people like you in my country, whether Christian, atheist or Muslim.   Still, as long as you don't follow your hateful rhetoric with action against anyone, then you are permitted, by Canadian law, to remain free in this country.   And the same goes for every single Muslim that lives here, or may live here.

Cites:  

Russia, the other Christian nation

Russia would like to jail homosexuals

Uganda does jail homosexuals

Uganda is a Christian nation

Hate crimes and killing of homosexuals in Christian country Russia

Hate crimes and killing of homosexuals in Christian country Uganda

Antigua - Christian and anti-gay

Canada is a Christian country

In 2013, Canadians hated and attacked Jews/Gays equally

But the hate crimes against gays were more violent

The US is a Christian country

Americans now hate Gays more than Jews

Within Greece, Thrace practices Sharia law for family matters since 1923; Greek secular law remains intact

Under Palestine order dating from 1947 , Isreal allows Islamic law for Muslims, non-Muslims still not subject to Islamic law. 

Malaysia Islamic state law only applies to Muslims

Muslim-majority countries with secular governments

Edited January 2, 2017 by dialamah

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

In Uganda, a Christian country, Christians are killing gays, being gay will get you jail time and the government would like to make it a capital offence.  In Russia, a predominantly Christian country, there are both legal and social sanctions against gay/LGBT, similar to those in Muslim-majority countries.     In Antigua, a Christian-majority country

 

, being gay can get you 15 years prison time.

In Canada and the US, it's true that gays are usually not murdered, but they certainly aren't universally accepted. The FBI estimates that 20% of hate crimes in the US are directed toward gays and LGBT; in Canada, it's about 16%.    

I agree that Muslim-majority countries are overall more homophobic l than Christian-majority countries, but this silly notion you have that only Islam hates gays is so easily disproven, I'm really surprised you keep trying.

You and others have claimed this is happening, because in some places sharia councils or courts have been allowed for some limited purposes.   You ignore the fact that these sharia courts are both limited and remain subject to the law of the land in which they are located.  You ignore the fact that many countries, both Islamic and not, allow certain segments of their society leeway in administrating some of their own customs/laws.   Some countries have been doing so for decades, and yet their country's legal system remains secular and maintains veto over the local system's laws.  Some countries with an Islamic state law system allows other legal systems for their non-Muslim minorities.   There are even Muslim-majority countries with secular governments.   This claim that once a population reaches X number of Muslims, then Sharia law must follow is clearly ridiculous.     

You use one-sided, hyperbolic rhetoric to demonize an entire religion and it's followers.  You are full of hate.  You are the intolerant one.  You are the problem.   I personally don't want people like you in my country, whether Christian, atheist or Muslim.   Still, as long as you don't follow your hateful rhetoric with action against anyone, then you are permitted, by Canadian law, to remain free in this country.   And the same goes for every single Muslim that lives here, or may live here.

Cites:  

Russia, the other Christian nation

Russia would like to jail homosexuals

Uganda does jail homosexuals

Uganda is a Christian nation

Hate crimes and killing of homosexuals in Christian country Russia

Hate crimes and killing of homosexuals in Christian country Uganda

Antigua - Christian and anti-gay

Canada is a Christian country

In 2013, Canadians hated and attacked Jews/Gays equally

But the hate crimes against gays were more violent

The US is a Christian country

Americans now hate Gays more than Jews

Within Greece, Thrace practices Sharia law for family matters since 1923; Greek secular law remains intact

Under Palestine order dating from 1947 , Isreal allows Islamic law for Muslims, non-Muslims still not subject to Islamic law. 

Malaysia Islamic state law only applies to Muslims

Muslim-majority countries with secular governments

 

 

 

 

And what you have here is something I was arguing with Canadianjim about in another thread.  Proportionality.  There are no completely innocent religions.  Even Buddhists are committing evil acts in Burma.

Islam is the worst religion on the planet, currently, for intolerance and bloody murder.  That does not excuse all the others.

[Rue]

20 hours ago, dialamah said:

I so don't like this show.  Shall I be deported?   

God yes. Watching Little House on the Prairie should get you deported as well. Corner Gas is a must.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

They only problem with that is, everone has a different view of where tolerance ends and perfectly justifiable intolerance starts.

The most intolerant of societies claims tolerance for the reasons you stated. I am myself intolerant of intolerance and people claiming to be tolerant.

I am intolerant of any human and only tolerate animals or Halle Berry.

On a serious note, claiming to be tolerant is like saying one knows what the truth is or claiming they don't have body odor. The only truth I know is everyone smells and even then my sense of smell is not dependable. I've developed a tolerance for some smells.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Rue said:

The most intolerant of societies claims tolerance for the reasons you stated. I am myself intolerant of intolerance and people claiming to be tolerant.

I am intolerant of any human and only tolerate animals or Halle Berry.

On a serious note, claiming to be tolerant is like saying one knows what the truth is or claiming they don't have body odor. The only truth I know is everyone smells and even then my sense of smell is not dependable. I've developed a tolerance for some smells.

Indeed.  MH used the word "rightys" in his post that I quoted, which goes to show he doesn't quite "get" tolerance either. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by bcsapper

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

And what you have here is something I was arguing with Canadianjim about in another thread.  Proportionality.  There are no completely innocent religions.  Even Buddhists are committing evil acts in Burma.

Islam is the worst religion on the planet, currently, for intolerance and bloody murder.  That does not excuse all the others.

People are responsible for any act of terror or hate.  People who hate.  People who demonize other people, for any reason.   DoP is no better than Muslim who says 'Hate Westerners.  Westerners are immoral and evil.  Westerners hate Muslims.  We must protect ourselves from Westerners".   Sure, DoP hasn't killed anyone, so - not so bad, eh?   But neither have the vast majority of Muslims who hate Westerners, who believe Westerners or immoral and evil, who believe Westerners hate Muslims.   For some reason, though, people such as yourself accept DoP's hate-mongering with 'oh, well, you know it's kinda true, right", but would reject a Muslim saying the same about Westerners, even though it's equally as true as DoP's claims against Muslims.

Do you suppose that people living in the ME, who are primarily Muslim, see love-for-Muslims in the Western military machine in their midst?  Do you think they 'understand' the interference of the West in their political processes as necessary and benign?   We are not blameless in this mutual hatefest; DoP proves it along with our unending involvement, militarily and otherwise, in their regions.   

There is no easy answer, but us demonizing Muslims while they're simultaneously demonizing us is NOT the answer.   People over here whine about how "Muslims aren't standing up to the intolerance/hatefulness in their midst"  and then do not stand up against the intolerance/hateful in their own midst.   Intolerance and hatefulness leads to violence, war, terrorism.    People like  DoP are the seeds of the most base and ugly that the human race has to offer, and it's people like you who water that with your support, lukewarm though it may be.  

Edited January 2, 2017 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

35 minutes ago, dialamah said:

In Uganda, a Christian country...

You are a tireless defender of your chosen faith.

[dialamah]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

You are a tireless defender of your chosen faith.

I understand, you have no comeback against actual facts at all.    

 

[dialamah]

31 minutes ago, Rue said:

God yes. Watching Little House on the Prairie should get you deported as well. Corner Gas is a must.

Corner Gas is great!   So I've got one out of three.  Am I in or out??   

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

People are responsible for any act of terror or hate.  People who hate.  People who demonize other people, for any reason.   DoP is no better than Muslim who says 'Hate Westerners.  Westerners are immoral and evil.  Westerners hate Muslims.  We must protect ourselves from Westerners".   Sure, DoP hasn't killed anyone, so - not so bad, eh?   But neither have the vast majority of Muslims who hate Westerners, who believe Westerners or immoral and evil, who believe Westerners hate Muslims.   For some reason, though, people such as yourself accept DoP's hate-mongering with 'oh, well, you know it's kinda true, right", but would reject a Muslim saying the same about Westerners, even though it's equally as true as DoP's claims against Muslims.

Do you suppose that people living in the ME, who are primarily Muslim, see love-for-Muslims in the Western military machine in their midst?  Do you think they 'understand' the interference of the West in their political processes as necessary and benign?   We are not blameless in this mutual hatefest; DoP proves it along with our unending involvement, militarily and otherwise, in their regions.   

There is no easy answer, but us demonizing Muslims while they're simultaneously demonizing us is NOT the answer.   People over here whine about how "Muslims aren't standing up to the intolerance/hatefulness in their midst"  and then do not stand up against the intolerance/hateful in their own midst.   Intolerance and hatefulness leads to violence, war, terrorism.    People like  DoP are the seeds of the most base and ugly that the human race has to offer, and it's people like you who water that with your support, lukewarm though it may be.  

People do things for a reason.  Acknowledging the reason is always a positive thing.  If it happens to be that their religious beliefs are a part of it, there's nothing to be gained from hiding the fact.   

Edited January 2, 2017 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I understand, you have no comeback against actual facts at all.    

 

 

No...I fully understand. You...like a typical ideologue...address my concerns about Islam in Canada by telling me Christians are just as murderous as Muslims. Like that makes it okay.

This is not very settling to an atheist like myself. Two wrongs do not make a right.

But, I do admire your non-stop defense of Islam. And you're a woman, I'm lead to believe.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

People do things for a reason.  Acknowledging the reason is always a positive thing.  If it happens to be that their religious beliefs are a part of it, there's nothing to be gained from hiding the fact.   

By the token that comes before that however - not acknowledging the fact that the west's interference is also a part of it - will be a negative that keeps making things worse.

[dialamah]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Acknowledging the reason is always a positive thing.

Why is the simplistic answer of "Islam" the right reason, while the more complex reason of "People/politics" the wrong one?

If adherents of every major religion has, at some point in their existence, behaved much like some extremist Islamists do today, how can such behavior then be an "Islam" thing?   If less developed and more authoritarian Christian nations (Uganda, Russia) behave similarly to less developed and more authoritarian Muslim nations, why is the problem "Islam" in Muslim countries, and something else in non-Muslim countries?   If the more progressive Muslim nations are a mere 50 years behind Western nations in terms of social and personal freedoms, how is that an "Islamic" thing?   

Saying "Islam" to explain away everything from oppressive regimes and limited social freedoms to extremists - but only if Muslims are involved - defies logic.   

 

 

[?Impact]

33 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You...like a typical ideologue...address my concerns about Islam in Canada

So far your concerns about Islam in Canada has been talking about Muslim countries, so what is wrong about talking about Christian countries as well. That is 100% equivalent comparison, equally valid or invalid.

[Guest]

Just now, dialamah said:

Why is the simplistic answer of "Islam" the right reason, while the more complex reason of "People/politics" the wrong one?

If adherents of every major religion has, at some point in their existence, behaved much like some extremist Islamists do today, how can such behavior then be an "Islam" thing?   If less developed and more authoritarian Christian nations (Uganda, Russia) behave similarly to less developed and more authoritarian Muslim nations, why is the problem "Islam" in Muslim countries, and something else in non-Muslim countries?   If the more progressive Muslim nations are a mere 50 years behind Western nations in terms of social and personal freedoms, how is that an "Islamic" thing?   

Saying "Islam" to explain away everything from oppressive regimes and limited social freedoms to extremists - but only if Muslims are involved - defies logic.   

 

 

Neither are "right or wrong".  People/Politics are the right reason when they are, and Islam is the right reason when it is.  I understand that with Islam, the dividing line is somewhat blurred.

And I never blame Islam when the perpetrators of such acts that might be blamed on Islam, assert that they were acting for reasons other than Islam.

Usually Islam is to blame when Muslims are to blame, so I'm not sure what your point is there, but I certainly have no problem blaming Christianity when it is to blame, such as in Uganda in your example.  Like I said, it's proportional.

If you are okay blaming Christianity when it is responsible for atrocities, how come you oppose blaming Islam when it is responsible for atrocities?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

By the token that comes before that however - not acknowledging the fact that the west's interference is also a part of it - will be a negative that keeps making things worse.

By all means, fill your boots. 

At what point though, does taking revenge on someone for what someone else has done just because they look like them, become a bad thing?

And when do the sectarian killings stop being the fault of the west?  At some point, those who removed the shackles become less to blame than the unshackled, surely?

[dialamah]

27 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

No...I fully understand. You...like a typical ideologue...address my concerns about Islam in Canada by telling me Christians are just as murderous as Muslims. Like that makes it okay.

That isn't what I said.  I merely presented the OTHER side of the story, the one that you ignore to further your agenda of hate.   Here, let me summarize that post for you; perhaps it will help your comprehension:   

Homophobia exists around the world, in many different countries - some are Christian, some are not.   Homophobia is sometimes sanctioned by state laws in both Christian and non-Christian countries.

Islamic countries are generally more homophobic than non-Islamic countries.

The claim that Sharia law is inevitable if Muslims are allowed to come to Canada is absolutely and completely false as evidenced by countries who have had dual systems for decades- Sharia for Muslims, something else for non-Muslims.  Such countries include Muslim-majority countries as well as Christian-majority countries, or in the case of Israel, Jewish-majority.    There are even Muslim-majority countries who have a secular, non-religious government and legal system.   

 

Quote

This is not very settling to an atheist like myself. Two wrongs do not make a right.

That is correct.  Some Muslims demonize Westerners, spread falsehoods to engender hatred even when they would never think of putting on a suicide vest or throwing a gay person off a rooftop.   Just as they are wrong for spreading lies and hate against Western countries, you are wrong for spreading lies and hatred against Muslims here.

 

Quote

But, I do admire your non-stop defense of Islam. And you're a woman, I'm lead to believe.

What sex I am has nothing to do with challenging intolerant, hateful rhetoric and people.

 

 

 

[dialamah]

38 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If you are okay blaming Christianity when it is responsible for atrocities, how come you oppose blaming Islam when it is responsible for atrocities?

Actually, I don't blame Christianity for those atrocities.  I blame the people who carry them out.  That they are Christians is only relevant in the same way that Islamists carrying out atrocities are Muslim is relevant.    

If you consider where these things take place or originate from, you'll notice that they do tend to be in the same part of the world - Middle East and Africa.   What else does the Middle East and Africa have in common?  Lots of poverty, lots of illiteracy, a long history of female-oppression - predating Islam and even Christianity.   I haven't done a lot of research on non-Muslim religions in the Middle East and Africa, but what I have done demonstrates that the things people dislike about Islam is practiced by the majority of the people in the region, to some degree and regardless of their religious faith.   Coptic Christian bishops telling women to 'cover up like St Mary and your Muslim sisters'; a Jewish tribe who also practices FGM, along with the fundamentalist Jews who are practically indistinguishable from Muslim women in dress;  Muslims/Catholics/Protestants and "others" who all believe women should be subject to men, and that homosexuality is immoral - all in roughly the same percentages within their local region.   This means that if 83% of Egyptians have suffered FGM, that 83% applies to Coptic Christians, Muslims and whatever portion of their population that still practices some kind of 'animist' or other religion.  

The sad part is that neither the Koran nor the Bible support many of the practices that their followers consider requirements.   Both books career wildly between horrific violence and cruelty and commands to love and tolerance of others, even their enemies.   What any one person takes from those books is on him, whether it's an American Christian shooting an abortion doctor because of something he thinks the Bible says, or an Islamic terrorist strapping on a suicide vest because of something he thinks the Koran says.   It's not the religion, it's the person, and if you want to understand why you have to look at factors beyond the religion.

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by dialamah

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Actually, I don't blame Christianity for those atrocities.  I blame the people who carry them out.  That they are Christians is only relevant in the same way that Islamists carrying out atrocities are Muslim.    

If you consider where these things take place or originate from, you'll notice that they do tend to be in the same part of the world - Middle East and Africa.   What else does the Middle East and Africa have in common?  Lots of poverty, lots of illiteracy, a long history of female-oppression - predating Islam and even Christianity.   I haven't done a lot of research on non-Muslim religions in the Middle East and Africa, but what I have done demonstrates that the things people dislike about Islam is practiced by the majority of the people in the region, to some degree and regardless of their religious faith.   Coptic Christian bishops telling women to 'cover up like St Mary and your Muslim sisters'; a Jewish tribe who also practices FGM, along with the fundamentalist Jews who are practically indistinguishable from Muslim women in dress;  Muslims/Catholics/Protestants and "others" who all believe women should be subject to men, and that homosexuality is immoral - all in roughly the same percentages within their local region.   This means that if 83% of Egyptians have suffered FGM, that 83% applies to Coptic Christians, Muslims and whatever portion of their population that still practices some kind of 'animist' or other religion.  

The sad part is that neither the Koran nor the Bible support many of the practices that their followers consider requirements.   Both books career wildly between horrific violence and cruelty and commands to love and tolerance of others, even their enemies.   What any one person takes from those books is on him, whether it's an American Christian shooting an abortion doctor because of something he thinks the Bible says, or an Islamic terrorist strapping on a suicide vest because of something he thinks the Koran says.   It's not the religion, it's the person, and if you want to understand why you have to look at factors beyond the religion.

 

I suppose the question to ask is, if these people were not Christians or Muslims, would they still be doing the things they do?  If so, other reasons would be found, such as culture, etc, that would upset just as many people when brought up.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I understand, you have no comeback against actual facts at all.    

 

You don't have any facts worth replying to. Everything with you is cultural equality. If ten million women are raped in Cairo you'll eagerly find one, ONE that was raped in New York and then say "See!? See!? The west is JUST AS BAD!"

If there are tens of thousands of terrorist incidents in the Muslim world you'll desperately scour the internet for one or two involving Christians. "See! They're just as bad!"

But they're not. And everyone but you seems to realize that.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

So far your concerns about Islam in Canada has been talking about Muslim countries, so what is wrong about talking about Christian countries as well.

Because we're talking about Muslim countries which produce many tens of thousands of immigrants to Canada every year. Perhaps a hundred thousand a year. We're not bringing in a hundred thousand extremist fundamentalist Christians every year. And if we were I'd want them screened, too.

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

People are responsible for any act of terror or hate.  People who hate.  People who demonize other people, for any reason.

And yet you do not want people from regions where this is commonplace to be screened for their values before immigrating to Canada...

[Smallc]

According to some such people (extremist Christians) don't exist - I think that was the reason for bringing them up.